Question Speculation: RDNA2 + CDNA Architectures thread

[uzzi38]

All die sizes are within 5mm^2. The poster here has been right on some things in the past afaik, and to his credit was the first to saying 505mm^2 for Navi21, which other people have backed up. Even still though, take the following with a pich of salt.

Navi21 - 505mm^2

Navi22 - 340mm^2

Navi23 - 240mm^2

Source is the following post: https://www.ptt.cc/bbs/PC_Shopping/M.1588075782.A.C1E.html

 

[blckgrffn]

How much of AMD's capacity is already spoken for by Xbox and PS5 inventory build though?

I was under the (perhaps mistaken) impression that Sony and MS had their own orders with TSMC as part of their own supply chains and that therefore it was really *not* part of AMDs wafer allocations/reservations.

If you buy into AMD really being the chip designers but never really owning the chips that get put into the consoles (more like a royalty agreement) that makes sense.

Viewed in the more traditional PC space where AMD would make chips to deliver into the MS/Sony supply chain, it wouldn’t.

 

[Veradun]

Math.



In this case secret behind the scenes math. I think we can just trust them not to make up numbers, right?

Ah.

Marvelous. We should not discuss those "numbers" then :>

 

[beginner99]

I was under the (perhaps mistaken) impression that Sony and MS had their own orders with TSMC as part of their own supply chains and that therefore it was really *not* part of AMDs wafer allocations/reservations.

AMD orders the chips from TSMC and supplies them to sony. Anything else would probably also be in issue with the x86 license.

 

[Timorous]

Consoles are using N7 due to the Zen 2 cores. Navi2X will most certainly be using N7P or (unlikely) possibly N7+.

MS said they are using a custom N7 node called N7E.

As far as the RT performance MS said that the Series X has ~13TFlops of RT performance but how this was calculated and how NV calculate their conversion to TFlops is unknown so you cannot really compare.

 

[randomhero]

I have this nagging feeling that AMD is up to something.
When you look at rumours of die sizes, then look of their products on market and soon to be released consoles, then published patents... something is cooking.
Rumoured Big Navi die size is 505 mm2. You can fit two Navi 10s in that.
What are they up to?

 

[Veradun]

MS said they are using a custom N7 node called N7E.

As far as the RT performance MS said that the Series X has ~13TFlops of RT performance but how this was calculated and how NV calculate their conversion to TFlops is unknown so you cannot really compare.

Nope. What they said is that, to achieve the same raytracing perfomance they would need another 13Tflops of shader perfarmance. On the same uarch. And as you point out you can't compare this to anything because it is basically meaningless :>

 

[A///]

How much of AMD's capacity is already spoken for by Xbox and PS5 inventory build though?

Dang, I guess TSMC and AMD didn't realize they had to start and workout a production schedule so they could deliver 10M processors and graphics chips to Sony by the end of March 2021.

Guess we won't see Zen3 or RDNA until next fall. See ya later, alligators!

 

[Olikan]

MS said they are using a custom N7 node called N7E.

Nice, was wonderring how could AMD fit 80CUs in the rumoured of 505mm2. Using xbox sxsx die i reached ~460mm for only the shaders, without anything else

 

[maddie]

Nice, was wonderring how could AMD fit 80CUs in the rumoured of 505mm2. Using xbox sxsx die i reached ~460mm for only the shaders, without anything else

Navi 10 complete has 40CU in 251mm^2 & you get 460mm^2 for 80CU shaders alone? Might want to recheck your work.

 

[Asterox]

Hm, very intresting if 96CU/24GB HMB2 GPU is coming soon.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1301285305786478592

 

[Olikan]

Navi 10 complete has 40CU in 251mm^2 & you get 460mm^2 for 80CU shaders alone? Might want to recheck your work.

I used xbox die, it's way less dense

 

[DisEnchantment]

I used xbox die, it's way less dense

XSX is denser. 42.7 MTr/mm2 vs 41.03 of N10.

 

[DDH]

Hm, very intresting if 96CU/24GB HMB2 GPU is coming soon.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1301285305786478592

Lol that was said in jest. Please don't take that as confirmation of anything

 

[DDH]

Navi 10 complete has 40CU in 251mm^2 & you get 460mm^2 for 80CU shaders alone? Might want to recheck your work.

Navi10 seems to have a large amount of unused die space

 

[maddie]

Navi10 seems to have a large amount of unused die space

Which makes his calculation even worse.

 

[maddie]

I used xbox die, it's way less dense

Did a quick look.

XBox series X has ~ 60% (216 mm^2) dedicated to shaders (56 Cu), so 80 CU ~ 308mm^2. Which is why the following post is intriguing.

Hm, very intresting if 96CU/24GB HMB2 GPU is coming soon.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1301285305786478592

Has AMD been sandbagging?


edit: corrected some numbers.

 

[DDH]

Did a quick look.

XBox series X has ~ 60% (216 mm^2) dedicated to shaders (56 Cu), so 80 CU ~ 245mm^2. Which is why the following post is intriguing.



Has AMD been sandbagging?

That 96cu post is a joke, i know, i made it for the love of all that is holy don't let wccftech get a hold of it

 

[Gideon]

Considering we're already getting BIOS releases with Zen 3 support, I really hope AMD announces an event soon. The 7/7 release was announced quite a while in advance.

If AMD intends to get the GPUs out before November, we should learn more soon.

 

[maddie]

That 96cu post is a joke, i know, i made it for the love of all that is holy don't let wccftech get a hold of it

You might have been joking, but to be honest, I've been doing some rough calcs and have been thinking similar thoughts for a little while now. Was just wary in posting them. If the top end gets HBM memory, then the space is certainly there for additional CUs, based on the size of the XBox Series X APU. By the way I edited the numbers after your quote

 

[Olikan]

Did a quick look.

XBox series X has ~ 60% (216 mm^2) dedicated to shaders (56 Cu), so 80 CU ~ 308mm^2. Which is why the following post is intriguing.

LOL, Tom's hardware said 325mm, maybe they used memory controles aswell

 

[DDH]

You might have been joking, but to be honest, I've been doing some rough calcs and have been thinking similar thoughts for a little while now. Was just wary in posting them. If the top end gets HBM memory, then the space is certainly there for additional CUs, based on the size of the XBox Series X APU. By the way I edited the numbers after your quote

I'm of the opinion that the top SKU will use hbm, otherwise how will they get the bandwidth needed? Gddr6 seems to top out at 16gbs, and the bus width required to provide the necessary bandwidth would be massive, 100mm2 for a 512bit perhaps

I saw a this

https://twitter.com/x/status/1300438803421618179

And I'm thinking the 80 and cut down 72cu sku maybe has hbm, maybe 16gb. The additional 72sku has gddr, maybe 12gb 16gbs gddr6 on a 384bit bus, 784gbs bandwidth.

Otherwise, why have two 72cu skis

Anyway, just a theory

 

[DDH]

LOL, Tom's hardware said 325mm, maybe they used memory controles aswell

No time hardware said of the 360mm2 die, 47.5% was for the GPU, 172mm2. I checked and estimated 47.8%, so close enough

 

[Asterox]

That 96cu post is a joke, i know, i made it

for the love of all that is holy don't let wccftech get a hold of it

Well ok if it is a joke, but did you see that I wrote if.

Now i remembered a similar situation.Meny people said it will not hapened, or it is just a unrealistic speculation.

 

[maddie]

No time hardware said of the 360mm2 die, 47.5% was for the GPU, 172mm2. I checked and estimated 47.8%, so close enough

This is an even stronger case for more than 80CU in a ~500mm^2 GPU with HBM controllers. 1 CU = 3.2mm^2.

Either we get more than 80 CU (96 or even more) OR Big Navi is much less than 500mm^2.

 

[kurosaki]

This is an even stronger case for more than 80CU in a ~500mm^2 GPU with HBM controllers. 1 CU = 3.2mm^2.

Either we get more than 80 CU (96 or even more) OR Big Navi is much less than 500mm^2.

I would be equally satisfied if "Big"navi~80CU turned out to be ~300mm^2. that would possibly mean a very good performance, without the need for costs being as high as for eg the 3070.