Question Speculation: RDNA2 + CDNA Architectures thread

[uzzi38]

All die sizes are within 5mm^2. The poster here has been right on some things in the past afaik, and to his credit was the first to saying 505mm^2 for Navi21, which other people have backed up. Even still though, take the following with a pich of salt.

Navi21 - 505mm^2

Navi22 - 340mm^2

Navi23 - 240mm^2

Source is the following post: https://www.ptt.cc/bbs/PC_Shopping/M.1588075782.A.C1E.html

 

[nurturedhate]

No need....I was playing on the /s that was missing.

If that's the case can @Glo. make us all some "Poor Hopper" posters please!

 

[Glo.]

Come on guys, its not me who posted 2500 MHz core clocks into the MacOS specs.

Its not my fault for this hype train, its Apple!

 

[nurturedhate]

Come on guys, its not me who posted 2500 MHz core clocks into the MacOS specs.

Its not my fault for this hype train, its Apple!

So you are saying Apple released false AMD info to hurt Nvidia... IT ALL MAKES SENSE! (I'm seriously joking)

 

[Tup3x]

There's no real evidence to suggest that those are even correct. I'd find it very odd that the clock speeds would regress. Though, it's possible that they have totally overhauled how the boost works but even then it would be be a bit weird to have that low base clock.

 

[Kenmitch]

Come on guys, its not me who posted 2500 MHz core clocks into the MacOS specs.

Its not my fault for this hype train, its Apple!

Well....Your either the conductor or the ticket taker. Not sure who to believe. /s

 

[Midwayman]

My prediction for the two top cards with todays info.

RX6900XT with 16GB HBM2E ram / ~RTX3090 raster performance at $1299
RX6800XT with 16GB HBM2E ram / ~RTX3080 raster performance at $699

That's a lot of extra money for a pitiful amount of performance. The 3090 (kinda) gets away with it because the memory has professional applications. $899 is more realistic for a card with with only a little performance differentiation. Not having CUDA would be a huge dealbreaker for other uses.

 

[raghu78]

Come on guys, its not me who posted 2500 MHz core clocks into the MacOS specs.

Its not my fault for this hype train, its Apple!

Why is everyone surprised that RDNA2 can clock 2.5 Ghz when the Renoir APU with Vega gfx overclocked to 2.4 Ghz. In fact if anything at minimum 2.5 Ghz was to be expected given RDNA2 is AMD's latest and best GPU arch and incorporates the best physical design methodologies utilized by the "Zen" CPU team. Obviously > 2.5 Ghz is not so likely. 3 Ghz is probably going to happen on TSMC N5P or N3.

 

[DiogoDX]

In my opinion AMD can't lauch anything for more that $800-900. They must know that people will not buy a AMD gaming card for $1000. They are not Nvidia.

 

[Glo.]

Why is everyone surprised that RDNA2 can clock 2.5 Ghz when the Renoir APU with Vega gfx overclocked to 2.4 Ghz. In fact if anything at minimum 2.5 Ghz was to be expected given RDNA2 is AMD's latest and best GPU arch and incorporates the best physical design methodologies utilized by the "Zen" CPU team. Obviously > 2.5 Ghz is not so likely. 3 Ghz is probably going to happen on TSMC N5P or N3.

I still cannot believe it, sorry Raghu

My personal expectation was that it will top out at 2.3 GHz, and nothing more. 2.5 GHz is well beyond what I though was possible, maybe not on TSMC's process, but possible for AMD capabilities.

 

[GodisanAtheist]

In my opinion AMD can't lauch anything for more that $800-900. They must know that people will not buy a AMD gaming card for $1000. They are not Nvidia.

- Exactly this. If AMD has a 3090 competitor, expect $999 price tag tops.

Premium brands (like NV and Apple) can get away with a mondo "brand tax" while their competitors will always have to charge substantially less for the same performance because if prices are equal you might as well go with the name brand.

This tax only magnifies the higher into a price bracket you go So a 10% price difference at $500 will need to be a 50% price difference at $1500. You can see AMD following a similar principal with their Zen line where the further up the bracket you go,the bigger the % price difference between them and the Intel equivalent.

 

[raghu78]

In my opinion AMD can't lauch anything for more that $800-900. They must know that people will not buy a AMD gaming card for $1000. They are not Nvidia.

So you are saying if AMD have a flagship N21 GPU with 16 GB HBM2E for $1000 or even $1200 which is 5-10% faster than RTX 3090 FE AMD will not sell out every unit they make. I will take a bet with you that they will sell every unit they manufacture.

 

[dzoni2k2]

In my opinion AMD can't lauch anything for more that $800-900. They must know that people will not buy a AMD gaming card for $1000. They are not Nvidia.

LOL

Nvidia is about to learn a lesson. And I'm gonna love every second of it.

 

[DiogoDX]

So you are saying if AMD have a flagship N21 GPU with 16 GB HBM2E for $1000 or even $1200 which is 5-10% faster than RTX 3090 FE AMD will not sell out every unit they make. I will take a bet with you that they will sell every unit they manufacture.

They will sell but not for gamers. In the high prices the brand power is a stronger factor. I can bet with you even if AMD is 20% faster than the 3090 for $1000 we will see the major of streamers/youtubers and high end users in the foruns still buying Nvidia.

 

[Glo.]

They will sell but not for gamers. In the high prices the brand power is a stronger factor. I can bet with you even if AMD is 20% faster than the 3090 for $1000 we will see the major of streamers/youtubers and high end users in the foruns still buying Nvidia.

Well guys. You better believe that AMD will price their product correctly. Look at Ryzen CPUs.

If AMD has better product than Nvidia, you can bet they will deliver better value, but at the same time - with apropriate premium.

999$ is what I expect for 6900XT, especially if it is going to be 10% faster than RTX 3090, and more efficient.

Heck, I would expect 999$ for 6900XT even if it would be 5% slower than RTX 3090, but that card is huge disappointment.

 

[Head1985]

Watched NOAF stream(not apple fan):
better than +10% IPC
1.3x better clocks
better than +50% perf/watt
faster than 3080
AMD will have own DLSS
He said amd is not impresed with 3080 performance.And that RDNA2 is better than they anticipate.It is similar to zen1 when they increased IPC more than 50% and target was only 50%.

 

[maddie]

Why is everyone surprised that RDNA2 can clock 2.5 Ghz when the Renoir APU with Vega gfx overclocked to 2.4 Ghz. In fact if anything at minimum 2.5 Ghz was to be expected given RDNA2 is AMD's latest and best GPU arch and incorporates the best physical design methodologies utilized by the "Zen" CPU team. Obviously > 2.5 Ghz is not so likely. 3 Ghz is probably going to happen on TSMC N5P or N3.

Honestly. I don't have a clue as to top speed. The slide that mentioned reduced complexity + when aided by physical optimization is promising.

As an aside, Zen2 can run very efficiently at 3 GHz. How do the AVX circuitry in it compare in complexity to CU? Anyone?

 

[Kenmitch]

Just when the hype train looks to be slowing down it suddenly picks up momentum! /s

Lisa Su/AMD will tease RDNA2 during the Zen3 announcement. Odds?

 

[uzzi38]

Just when the hype train looks to be slowing down it suddenly picks up momentum! /s

Lisa Su/AMD will tease RDNA2 during the Zen3 announcement. Odds?

I totally want to just see something super smug just like AMD showing off the performance of Zen 3 in a game at 1080p, 1440p and 4K with an "unreleased Radeon graphics card"... Or even just a footnote about the GPU used.

Or for the ultimate memes, they could do a demo showing off a shiny new 5950X + "unreleased Radeon graphics card" vs 10900K + RTX 3090, with performance numbers at all three resolutions and a Kill-a-Watt reading showing the difference in power draw , preferably in all three resolutions again.

Probably won't happen, but hey, it'd be hilarious if it did.

 

[Gideon]

Or for the ultimate memes, they could do a demo showing off a shiny new 5950X + "unreleased Radeon graphics card" vs 10900K + RTX 3090, with performance numbers at all three resolutions and a Kill-a-Watt reading showing the difference in power draw , preferably in all three resolutions again.

This crossed my mind as well. If pefromance allows it they could even pull these rigs out twice. Once @ Ryzen launch @ 1080p and the next time at RDAN2 launch @ 4K.

 

[raghu78]

They will sell but not for gamers. In the high prices the brand power is a stronger factor. I can bet with you even if AMD is 20% faster than the 3090 for $1000 we will see the major of streamers/youtubers and high end users in the foruns still buying Nvidia.

Thats a baseless argument. Nvidia has a stronger brand but that is built on performance leadership for many years. I can bet you if Nvidia did not have the GPU crown consumers would not hesitate to switch to AMD. Maybe few will want to wait for 1 more generation to see if AMD have an overall package which is competitive on features like DLSS and performance (raster and raytracing) with Nvidia. But I can guarantee you that performance leadership matters. You should only look at RTX 2070 Super launching to replace the RTX 2070 at $500 because AMD said they were coming with RX 5700XT at $449. Once RTX 2070 Super launched AMD reacted and cut the launch price of RX 5700XT to $399. If thats not an indication that these companies compete on performance then I don't know what is. Remember RTX 2070 had ray tracing and RX 5700XT did not. So if the Nvidia brand is all that mattered why would Nvidia want to bring RTX 2070 Super with a bigger TU104 die and reduce their margins.

 

[kurosaki]

hese companies compete on performance then I don't know what is. Remember RTX 2070 had ray tracing and RX 5700XT did not. So if the Nvidia brand is all that mattered why would Nvidia want to bring RTX 2070 Super with a bigger TU104 die and reduce their margins.

Was going to reply something similar, plus: Branding turns quicker now because of how society looks. if something is clearly better than the other, every one on earth will know instantly. It's all so fluent these days. If one streamer picked up a card from AMD because it was the best, well, it is going to be an avalanche. AMD is just going to get that top perf crown to get highly adopted amongst the streaming and gaming crowd, all us other peasants will probably suffice with the tier below at 40% of the price.. Top tier is most often all marketing and mindshare, and these days, that shit turns fast.

 

[Shivansps]

So you are saying if AMD have a flagship N21 GPU with 16 GB HBM2E for $1000 or even $1200 which is 5-10% faster than RTX 3090 FE AMD will not sell out every unit they make. I will take a bet with you that they will sell every unit they manufacture.

AMD has one problem, at equal price, Nvidia is offering a better encoder, RTX and DLSS. Everyone streams these days so a good encoder should be a high priority, for RTX AMD still has to show their tech, personally i dont care much about it. But DLSS is a must, they need to came up with their own version. So ill say until all this is fixed they cant try to offer similar perf at equal price, its not going to work. And it did not worked for Navi.

 

[itsmydamnation]

@Shivansps PS5 DMC ray traced GI/reflections not good enough for you?

 

[kurosaki]

vidia is offering a better encoder, RTX and DLSS. Everyone streams these days so a good encoder should be a high priority, for RTX AMD still has to show their tech, personally i dont care much about it. But DLSS is a must, they need to came up with their own version. So ill say until all this is fixed they cant try to offer same perf at equal price, its not going to work.

DLSS is crap. I hope to god AMD just ignores DLSS, it's a redactedrunaway to rendering games at lower resolution at an alleged higher one. It's pure marketing, with fine words as AI and unique Tenor cores. >>All I hear is waste of real raster space. They do what they always have done, Nvidia. Cut corners with IQ to win in pure FPS. It's old as the street.

My personal opinion is that Nvidia has always put way more on strategic marketing than AMD, and it pays off for them. Does it make them sell cards? Of course! Am I going to buy a card full of caveats just because they claim they have advanced highly in AI? Doubtful.

Nvidia - caught cheating again?? New Aquamark

From Tom's Hardware Link "Bug" or "Cheat"? - NVIDIA drivers don't render the correct image Before we show the performance results of actual cards in the benchmark, we need to take a look at the image quality of the cards and different driver versions first. The image comparisons we made...

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[raghu78]

AMD has one problem, at equal price, Nvidia is offering a better encoder, RTX and DLSS. Everyone streams these days so a good encoder should be a high priority, for RTX AMD still has to show their tech, personally i dont care much about it. But DLSS is a must, they need to came up with their own version. So ill say until all this is fixed they cant try to offer similar perf at equal price, its not going to work. And it did not worked for Navi.

I did say in my reply few users might look at the overall package. AMD need a competitive response to DLSS and raytracing and thats obvious. The media engine is important but I do not agree that everyone streams. Having said that each user looks at a certain set of parameters to make his decision but I agree that there are folks who require a good encoder and software support for OBS and other popular streaming platforms for their streaming needs.