Question Speculation: RDNA2 + CDNA Architectures thread

[uzzi38]

All die sizes are within 5mm^2. The poster here has been right on some things in the past afaik, and to his credit was the first to saying 505mm^2 for Navi21, which other people have backed up. Even still though, take the following with a pich of salt.

Navi21 - 505mm^2

Navi22 - 340mm^2

Navi23 - 240mm^2

Source is the following post: https://www.ptt.cc/bbs/PC_Shopping/M.1588075782.A.C1E.html

 

[Glo.]

Anyone else think AMD will show us some RDNA2 stuff tomorrow? If Zen3 really beats Intel at gaming performance, they will want to pair it with a high end GPU to show it off, and I don't see them using an Nvidia product for that demo.

They can use RTX 3090 GPUs to unlock their performance.

Im sorry

 

[dzoni2k2]

Outside of Nvidia sponsored streamer shills and reviewers, no one can get one anyways. So they either use 2080Ti or unannounced AMD GPU.

 

[wanderica]

Anyone else think AMD will show us some RDNA2 stuff tomorrow? If Zen3 really beats Intel at gaming performance, they will want to pair it with a high end GPU to show it off, and I don't see them using an Nvidia product for that demo.

I'm hoping they show something GPU related. Someone earlier in the thread suggested AMD show off Zen 3 paired with an "unannounced GPU." AMD seems all in on beating Intel at gaming, so it seem likely they'll do something similar at least. However, given the way AMD has been so tight-lipped about RDNA2, it'll almost certainly be Navi 22 showing a frame counter.

 

[Gideon]

My guess is that most of the benches will be 1080p with RX 5700XT (to show CPU perf) and in the end they'll display a "sneak peek" of zen3 + RDNA2 vs Intel + RTX 3080 (or 3090 if performance allows) in a cherry picked game where AMD wins.

 

[TESKATLIPOKA]

Chiphell speculation, things were a bit confusing via Google Translate, but I think I got it - feel free to suggest corrections:

Radeon 6900XT - 80CU, 16 GB 256 bit GDDR6, 340w TDP - 2240 MHz
Radeon 6900 - 72CU, 16 GB 256 bit GDDR6, 290W TDP - 2050 MHz
Radeon 6800XT - ~64CU, 12 GB 192 bit GDDR6, 270W TDP - 2150 MHz
Radeon 6800 - 56CU, 192 bit GDDR6, 255W TDP - 2300 MHz
Radeon 6700XT - 50CU, 192 bit GDDR6, 240W TDP - 2300 MHz
Radeon 6700 - 40CU, 192 bit GDDR6, 195W TDP - 2300 MHz

Navi 21 - 6900XT, 6900, 6800 XT
Navi 22 - 6800, 6700XT
Navi 23 - 6700, etc.

Looks spot on to me. I did not believe AMD would differentiate XT and non XT chips via CU count, but I guess it's a possibility.

EDIT, it would not surprise me if all of the cards below the 6900 had 12 GB VRAM with the exception off the 6700 or 6600. The 6600 XT will probably be 36CU, and the 6500 will be Navi24.

EDIT #2: These chips have quite a bit of clock headroom, so I expect AMD may have their own "super" variants if NVIDIA manages to push something out that is faster. Radeon 6950XT @ 2.33-2.5 GHz! Given the fact I had the "old" Radeon 6950, I hope they do this

80CU GPU with 256bit GDDR6 and 340W TDP? Very high TDP, which is barely better than RTX3090.
14Ghz 256bit GDDR6 was barely enough for 40CU GPU and now there is no problem feeding 2x as much CU at higher speeds with just 16Ghz 256bit GDDR6? AMD is full of magicians.

 

[rainy]

14Ghz 256bit GDDR6 was barely enough for 40CU GPU and now there is no problem feeding 2x as much CU at higher speeds with jus 16Ghz 256bit GDDR6? AMD is full of magicians.

Until 256-bit memory bus is complete BS and in reality it would be 16GB of HBM2e.

 

[moinmoin]

Anyone else think AMD will show us some RDNA2 stuff tomorrow? If Zen3 really beats Intel at gaming performance, they will want to pair it with a high end GPU to show it off, and I don't see them using an Nvidia product for that demo.

I expect them to feature an unannounced unnamed RDNA2 card that they'll tell us to look forward to seeing more of on 28th, but will turn out not to be the top card there then.

 

[moinmoin]

So PS5's APU die size is ~286mm².

https://twitter.com/x/status/1313869681070157833

Edit: He deleted his tweet since he corrected the size to ~308mm², see also post #2621.

 

[Saylick]

So PS5's APU die size is ~286mm².

https://twitter.com/x/status/1313869681070157833

Hm, does this confirm TSMC N7+? Die size seems small for having 40 CUs just like Navi 10, which was ~250 mm2, but this SoC has to fit in 8 Zen 2 cores and many other SoC specific things...

Edit: lol, seems I wasn't the only one wo had the same immediate impression that the die size seems smaller than expected.

 

[Stuka87]

So PS5's APU die size is ~286mm².

https://twitter.com/x/status/1313869681070157833

This would leave me to believe that it is much more dense than Navi 10 was. I know its on a different process since both CPU and GPU are together. But smaller than I expected.

 

[exquisitechar]

So PS5's APU die size is ~286mm².

https://twitter.com/x/status/1313869681070157833

Really makes you think about Navi21 being over 500mm^2.

 

[Glo.]

This would leave me to believe that it is much more dense than Navi 10 was. I know its on a different process since both CPU and GPU are together. But smaller than I expected.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1313874941641732097

The scaling pretty much fits onbly the difference in CU counts. If so, and if we know Xbox Series X's density of 42 mln xTors/mm2 it shouldn't be different than that.

 

[kurosaki]

So... 80 CU is 370mm2 + all other logic 183mm2, but minus the zen cluster -120mm maybe?
433mm2 for big Navi 21?

 

[Krteq]

So... 80 CU is 370mm2 + all other logic 183mm2, but minus the zen cluster -120mm maybe?
433mm2 for big Navi 21?

Something is really fishy here, isn't it?

Huge caches or even more than 80 CUs?

 

[Glo.]

Something is really fishy here, isn't it?

Huge caches or even more than 80 CUs?

128 CUs, confirmed for largest Navi die!

Choo Choo! All aboard!

 

[NostaSeronx]

Hm, does this confirm TSMC N7+?

N7+ is cancelled at TSMC.

N6 replaces the 1:1 Metal 1 pitch: (57CPP:57M1 // 1.425x Metal)
N5 replaces the 2/3rd Metal 1 pitch: (57CPP:38M1 // 1.0x Metal)

 

[DDH]

128 CUs, confirmed for largest Navi die!

Choo Choo! All aboard!

128CUs for 128mb l1$, choooo choooooooooooo

 

[Saylick]

AMD wins the internet if they show off Big Navi's long boi die across 3 screens.

Lisa Su be like, "Look at that. Our die is so long that we needed 3 screens to display it. In comparison, look at our competitor's die. It ain't impressing anyone. *wink*"

Bonus points for pixelating the end of the die shot.

 

[Panino Manino]

AMD wins the internet if they show off Big Navi's long boi die across 3 screens.

Lisa Su be like, "Look at that. Our die is so long that we needed 3 screens to display it. In comparison, look at our competitor's die. It ain't impressing anyone. *wink*"

Longer is better now?
I thought they said that thicker was better.
Isn't that why SeX is better than the PS5?

 

[Timorous]

This would leave me to believe that it is much more dense than Navi 10 was. I know its on a different process since both CPU and GPU are together. But smaller than I expected.

I estimated around 13B transistors (2B for zen2 + 8MB L3, 10B for 40CUs + IO and 1B for ray tracing and other stuff). If true it puts the density at around 45M/mm² so 10% higher than Navi10.

 

[Glo.]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1313927870184656896

306 mm2 after correction, by Rogame. Makes more sense, now.

 

[Timorous]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1313927870184656896

306 mm2 after correction, by Rogame. Makes more sense, now.

13B in 306mm² is 42.5M/mm² so practically the same as Series X.

 

[Mopetar]

Outside of Nvidia sponsored streamer shills and reviewers, no one can get one anyways. So they either use 2080Ti or unannounced AMD GPU.

If you're AMD and know you'll beat the NVidia GPU (benchmarks alone should tell you this), you spend $3,000 to buy one off of an eBay scalper assuming you don't have some other way of acquiring one. Being able to best the top NVidia GPU is probably worth millions of dollars of free press, so you spend $15,000 just to get one to be able to use at your event if that's what it takes.

If they're going to do something like that though they only slip it in at the end. They'll just show some unnamed Radeon card beating a 3090 and that's all they need to say. It isn't even the GPU event, but it will get people talking.

 

[Stuka87]

If you're AMD and know you'll beat the NVidia GPU (benchmarks alone should tell you this), you spend $3,000 to buy one off of an eBay scalper assuming you don't have some other way of acquiring one. Being able to best the top NVidia GPU is probably worth millions of dollars of free press, so you spend $15,000 just to get one to be able to use at your event if that's what it takes.

If they're going to do something like that though they only slip it in at the end. They'll just show some unnamed Radeon card beating a 3090 and that's all they need to say. It isn't even the GPU event, but it will get people talking.

AMD/nVidia don't need to go to eBay, or try and buy one retail. They go to their AIB's that make cards for both, and buy straight from them.

 

[Zstream]

13B in 306mm² is 42.5M/mm² so practically the same as Series X.

Same density or, size?