Question Speculation: RDNA2 + CDNA Architectures thread

[uzzi38]

All die sizes are within 5mm^2. The poster here has been right on some things in the past afaik, and to his credit was the first to saying 505mm^2 for Navi21, which other people have backed up. Even still though, take the following with a pich of salt.

Navi21 - 505mm^2

Navi22 - 340mm^2

Navi23 - 240mm^2

Source is the following post: https://www.ptt.cc/bbs/PC_Shopping/M.1588075782.A.C1E.html

 

[Vope45]

I think this is going to be my favorite post from this thread .

Happy to be wrong

 

[DDH]

Would be odd for the 6800XT to be a 64 CU part. What's the 6800 then? Seems unlikely they have a 56 CU bin with how good the yields are supplying be on 7nm now. Also the speculation is that the 64 CU part will have a disabled memory controller and it's already almost unbelievable that AMD can get these results on a 256 bus.

I suppose it's possible we get two 64 CU parts where the only difference is the bus width, but that feels a little odd. I think the 64 CU part is the 6800 and the 6800XT will be the 72 CU part. 6900/XT will both be full die cars with the difference being clock speed. We might not see the real top dog if AMD is holding out to get some GDDR6X to pair with it to make up for some of the bus size limitations that have to start hitting at some point.

Honestly if the leaks and rumors are close, AMD doesn't need to release a top card. It seems like they'll be close enough to a 3090 with what they have now that they can get away with a promise of something even better four months from now.

If it seems unrealistic to get a 56cu die from a 64cu die due to yields, than a 64cu die from a 80cu die should be extremely unlikely. Where does that leave the 6800?

Something like this seems to make sense to me more so than the rumoured 72cu 6800xt
6700xt 40cu
6800xt 64cu
6900xt 80cu

 

[Glo.]

It's even a good year for NVidia fans. The 3080 is basically a Ti card that's back to $700. The only real gripe is the memory maybe being an issue several years down the road.

It will be good...

... if we will see the damn sub-300$ GPUs from them!

And from AMD, as well.

 

[dzoni2k2]

IPC? They probably mean perf/clock or perf/CU with normalized clocks.

 

[Ottonomous]

Regardless of definition, if this is a 72CU part they've definitely achieved the 50%+ perf/watt target and maybe exceeded it.

These are AIB leaks though. Its obvious that the 6800/XT parts are mainstream and the 6900XT is AMD exclusive

 

[Kepler_L2]

Navi 22 sounds pretty disappointing if it's just 40 CUs and loses to the 3070. I guess AMD made the massive Navi 21 GPU as a halo card to win benchmarks, but the cards they really want to sell are tiny <250mm² dies.

 

[raghu78]

Regardless of definition, if this is a 72CU part they've definitely achieved the 50%+ perf/watt target and maybe exceeded it.

These are AIB leaks though. Its obvious that the 6800/XT parts are mainstream and the 6900XT is AMD exclusive

RGT has said that quite a while back. Its 60% per CU perf/watt improvement. My guess is even higher if you compare 5700XT to 6900XT.

 

[PhoBoChai]

Happy to be wrong

If NV had went with TSMC 7N, we could see a repeat of 10-15% faster NV flagships. But being stuck on 8N (really 10N for MOBILES) and clocks peaking at 2ghz (worse than Turing), they have allowed themselves to be beaten.

 

[insertcarehere]

Is not an option for a lot of people, but Intel, AMD and Nvidia are pushing things too far, when your mainstream CPU cost $300 (6C) and your mainstream gpu cost $300 (likely similar to S series, maybe a bit more) you already talking about 10 year worth of subcription were they give you free games. And you arent even half way trought building a pc.

For me, i could never adapt to consoles, but the fact remains this is getting way too expensive.

This, a series X is likely half (if that) the upfront cost of an equivalent PC to build, and with MS giving away game pass subscriptions console games are likely not a big contingent expenditure. From a strict value proposition I find it hard to justify building a new PC unless the assumption is to pirate everything...

In 2013 4-core i5 Haswell + R9 270/X combo (~$400) could comfortably match or exceed PS4 performance for similar money, while an equivalent CPU/GPU combo for the Series X ($500) in 2020 YE would probably be over $700....

 

[Vope45]

If NV had went with TSMC 7N, we could see a repeat of 10-15% faster NV flagships. But being stuck on 8N (really 10N for MOBILES) and clocks peaking at 2ghz (worse than Turing), they have allowed themselves to be beaten.

Linus is absolutely right. My company regularly deals with nVidia and if not for CUDA we would give them the finger daily.

 

[BlitzWulf]

I have to agree if the 6700xt really sits between 2080 super and 2080 ti (roughly 40% faster than 5700xt) and remains priced at 399-449 like its predecessor it will land far too close to the series X in price and performance imo.

The Xbox is a whole system with with a gen4 nvme drive and uses about as much power as a 5700xt.
Not to mention that due to console optimizations, within a couple of years you would probably be seeing some games perform worse on the 6700xt relative to the series X.

 

[Ottonomous]

I have to agree if the 6700xt really sits between 2080 super and 2080 ti (roughly 40% faster than 5700xt) and remains priced at 399-449 like its predecessor it will land far too close to the series X in price and performance imo.

The Xbox is a whole system with with a gen4 nvme drive and uses about as much power as a 5700xt.
Not to mention that due to console optimizations, within a couple of years you would probably be seeing some games perform worse on the 6700xt relative to the series X.

Absolutely. It makes the value proposition very difficult. If I had an existing 500$ PC and was offered the money of the console + console refresh (1000USD~) I'd be hard pressed to spread it across two GPUs, the NVMe SSD and the PSU upgrade if necessary.

 

[reb0rn]

Compute cache might mitigate that though?

No
Point of all memory bound algos is to have DAG or memory footprint over 2-4-6GB+ (progpow, ethash, mtp, etc) with data where cash can`t help, cash could help with some asic algo which use less memory but there we have asic so benefit is pointless

 

[Ottonomous]

No
Point of all memory bound algos is to have DAG or memory footprint over 2-4-6GB+ (progpow, ethash, mtp, etc) with data where cash can`t help, cash could help with some asic algo which use less memory but there we have asic so benefit is pointless

Sorry for my tech. illiteracy but would the cache boost high refresh rate gaming perf? I imagine they could focus on that in the presentation

 

[dzoni2k2]

Navi 22 sounds pretty disappointing if it's just 40 CUs and loses to the 3070. I guess AMD made the massive Navi 21 GPU as a halo card to win benchmarks, but the cards they really want to sell are tiny <250mm² dies.

I’m thinking 40 CU is more of a 3060ti competitor. It was probably never meant to beat 3070. But it’s gonna be close.

 

[uzzi38]

3070 comp is gonna end up being N21 XE, AMD are probably holding off on that because the other dies are where the real money is to be had.

 

[PhoBoChai]

Linus is absolutely right. My company regularly deals with nVidia and if not for CUDA we would give them the finger daily.

I hear this sentiment a lot from ppl who work with NV. Seems like they have this overly arrogant treatment of partners. AIB forum posters on Chinese forums in particular, don't hold back. lol

 

[Veradun]

Is that really an option?

Series X costs you about $530ish to buy right now. You will need a Microsoft Xbox account for an additional $60 per year.

The Series X is subsidized, Micro$oft will make that money back from you on software sales. Your in their store, their rules, and no other options. Your also stuck with their voice chat, their social network, and so on. Cheating is far less prevalent (although it still happens), but does that make up for inability to mod single player games? Community patches almost never come to console. PC also gets a ton of indie exclusives.

The relative openness on PC gives it a community and energy that just does not seem to exist on consoles. PC is dominate on Twitch for a reason.

I'm not selling my PC :>

The only game I ever modded is TW3, with the HD tex pack since I played it 3 years late, so not really interested in that specific thing.

I'm going to subscribe to pass utimate including PC subscription anyway

 

[Kepler_L2]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1320289598627586049

Navi 21 getting faster every day, 3GHz by Wednesday?

 

[airfathaaaaa]

 

[xilli_fiberbit]

If NV had went with TSMC 7N, we could see a repeat of 10-15% faster NV flagships. But being stuck on 8N (really 10N for MOBILES) and clocks peaking at 2ghz (worse than Turing), they have allowed themselves to be beaten.

Nvidia had no other choice to go with Samsung because TSMC N7 is at fully capacity since a while

 

[dzoni2k2]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1320289598627586049

Navi 21 getting faster every day, 3GHz by Wednesday?

People are probably just throwing different clocks around. Official game, boost and actual clocks seen during gaming.

 

[uzzi38]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1320289598627586049

Navi 21 getting faster every day, 3GHz by Wednesday?

He corrected the naming afterwards, he meant in-game peaks, not sustained clocks.

 

[Guru]

Speculation is way out of hand and out of proportion!

My guess is their 6800xt is RTX 3080 levels, probably beats it in some games and loses in others, depending if its same speed or 5% slower, that is how it will be priced. I'm assuming from AMD's own numbers they showed at Zen 3 reveal that its about 5% slower than RTX 3080 and with that I bet $50 less.

If it ends up being same performance as RTX 3080, then we are going to see it debut at $700.

Does AMD have a bigger GPU than that? I'm not buying that. 80cu gpu that can beat the 3090? Why not tease that?

I think the fastest clocks are 2.3GHz officially, with it boosting up to 2.4GHz and you can probably OC it by 100MHz more, so a max clock of around 2.5GHz when manually OC'ed and all sliders set to max.

Again I expect short peaks of up to 2.4GHz, with more sustained clocks at 2.2 to 2.3GHz.

Would I want a 3090 beater? Sure why not, I'm not into that category of buyers, but more competition is always great, but I'd rather take a RX 6800xt that is 5% slower than the RTX 3080, but has 16GB of vram, has lower power consumption and costs $50 less!!!

 

[BlitzWulf]

Looks like the 3070 reviewers guide leaked

https://videocardz.com/newz/nvidia-geforce-rtx-3070-reviewers-guide-leaked

1 thing I found found interesting is that the 3070 has the same sm count as the 2080 and the 3080 has the same as 2080ti.
I'd bet money that if it werent for AMD being competitive this time around ,that NV would have been selling this configuration or something close to it as the xx80 card and people would have lapped it up
"2080ti perf for only 700 bucks!"

big navi cant come soon enough.