Question Speculation: RDNA3 + CDNA2 Architectures Thread

[uzzi38]

Man I have been dying to make this one for a while now.

First rumours for RDNA3 are here so new thread time!

Just going to start off with this one for now: kopite7kimi on Twitter: "@VideoCardz Ah, I mean a simple mcm design with 10240 cores is not enough. Because the lift from RDNA2 to RDNA3 is much bigger than from RDNA1 to RDNA2. We should expect many big improvements in GFX11. 🤔" / Twitter

 

[TESKATLIPOKA]

Indeed. 1.54x perf/watt (can't find the end note on that. 816 does not seem to exist in the slide deck TPU have so don't know what games were tested but I am going to assume it is 6950XT vs 7900XTX in a suite of several games because that is usually how they do things) with 1.06x more power is about 63% faster than the 6950XT on average and would fit within the upto 1.7x claim.

Techspot have the 6950XT scoring around 85fps on a geomean average at 4K vs 144 for the 4090. 1.63x would be 138-139fps so within 5% or 95% of the 4090 performance.

So I do wonder where 7900XT performance will land. Pricing would suggest the XTX is about 10% faster than the 7900XT so the 7900XT should be around 125fps in the above chart.

The 4080 12GB was around 3080Ti / 3090 performance in the NV charts and 4080 16GB was about in the middle of that and the 4090 so that would be about 115 on the above chart for the 4080 16GB so it does look like the $900 7900XT is going to be competitive in raster vs the $1,200 4080 16GB.

As for N32 well 7.5k shaders @ 2.5Ghz probably gets in to around 105fps in that chart or about 48% faster than the 6800XT and making the 7900XT about 20% faster than the 7800XT it kinda looks reasonable. Pricing on that is likely what $650 - 700. Pretty good perf/$ gain and would also be far faster than what NV tried to charge $900 for in raster atleast.

And then 7700XT is probably going to be around 6950 / 3090Ti levels given what was said about N32 matching the 6950XT in a 150W envelope.

7600XT using N33 could easily be 6800 - 6800XT tier. Probably closer to the latter at 1080p and the former at 4k.

I wouldn't be so optimistic about N33's performance.
N33 is basically 1/3 of N31. If N31 is 138-139FPS at 4k, then we are talking about 46-47 FPS. Maybe It will have higher clocks, so some extra performance, but RX 6800 manages 63 FPS.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

IMO, given their "upto 70% faster" numbers, I assume that it'll be around 55%-60% faster than the 6950XT, which would put it around 15-20% slower than the 4090.

As a side-note, I watched the GN video, and I don't get why Steve takes minor jokes against a competitor so seriously. The 4090 is huge and has a new connector, and AMD states that they have a regular connector and a normal sized card, and yes, the 8K stuff really is laughable. However, those are really weird things to waste a significant chunk (I think that somewhere between 1/3 and 1/2) of his video on.

Thanks for the recap of their rant. I don't give views to the clickbait 2 minutes of hate content so many channels spew for cash. Perhaps he doesn't remember Sony roasting Microsoft over and over for all their blunders surrounding the Xbox One.

At this point, Nvidia could strap a Gigabyte power supply to the 4090 and everyone would be like. Oh that's kind of sketchy, still going to buy it.

 

[Tigerick]

RT performance is not impressed. Cyberpunk 2077 RT native performance is slower than 3090Ti so is not playable at 4K...

 

[H T C]

I'll just leave this here:

Page 78 - Question - Speculation: RDNA3 + CDNA2 Architectures Thread

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forums.anandtech.com

Unfortunately, raster performance is still unknown ...

I asked a question in that post: anyone care to answer?

 

[Glo.]

On AMD site, the specs for 7900 XTX say that the GPU has 6144 Stream Processors.

What the actuall ... is happening with this launch?

https://www.amd.com/en/products/graphics/amd-radeon-rx-7900xtx

 

[TESKATLIPOKA]

RT performance is not impressed. Cyberpunk 2077 RT native performance is slower than 3090Ti so is not playable at 4K...

AMD is horrible in Cyberpunk 2077 with RT on.

 

[Gideon]

Sounds like these cards are targeting the 4080 (and the "unlaunched" 4080 12gb)

Makes one wonder how the dual chiplet one will perform, when it finally ends up dropping.

EDIT: I'm going to wait for benchmarks. I want to see how RT compares vs my 3090.

Honestly? In heavily RTd games at 4K it will be slower or at best equal.

AMD's Slide only showed ~50% uplift from previous gen in relatively lightly RTd games (Doom, RE:Village, Metro Exodus). And the Other slide was using FSR (1.0 for CP2077), still about 1.5x:

If you compare this to any third party benches:

NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4090 Founders Edition Review - Impressive Performance

The NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4090 Founders Edition offers huge gains over its predecessors. It's the first graphics card to get you 4K 60 FPS with ray tracing enabled, and upscaling disabled. Do you prefer 120 FPS instead of 60? Just turn on DLSS 3.

www.techpowerup.com

GeForce RTX 4090 Founders edition review

NVIDIA unveiled their much-anticipated Series 4000 graphics cards, beginning with the GeForce RTX 4090 founder edition. The new graphics card provides greater performance, more extensive raytracing fe... (Raytracing) Cyberpunk 2077

www.guru3d.com

Nvidia GeForce RTX 4090 FE im Test: Brachial schnell: Benchmarks in WQHD, UHD & 5K mit und ohne Raytracing

Nvidia GeForce RTX 4090 im Test: Benchmarks in WQHD, UHD & 5K mit und ohne Raytracing / Taktraten unter Last

www.computerbase.de

CP2077, Control, Dying Light, Doom Eternal will be slower at 4K than a RTX 3090.
GhostWire, F1 will be about equal
Deathloop, Metro Exodus, Spiderman have a chance of being slightly faster.

The rasterization perf is good and what was reasonable (though the hype train expected more) But the RT gain being smaller than the Rasterization gain, is the biggest bummer for me.
It won't matter that much now, but RT will be a major part of game engines in a few years. Only being able to match the 2-year old 3090 and 3090 Ti (on an ancient Samsung process with similar TDP) is dissapointing for me.

Even my RX 6800 has more than enough non-RT performance for me in any game (at 1440p) but I could immediately use, say, 3x RT uplift.

 

[amenx]

I wouldnt be surprised if the lower than expected clocks were just to keep the power down. And leaving plenty headroom for OC'ers to crank it up. Most reviews will take that into account in their verdict, which is likely what AMD are aiming for.

 

[Tigerick]

On AMD site, the specs for 7900 XTX say that the GPU has 6144 Stream Processors.

What the actuall ... is happening with this launch?

Check Anandtech article, Ryan explained in details

 

[CakeMonster]

These chips are designed years in advance, especially RT prioritization this is what AMD decided upon given their best guess (and available transistors) in ~2019 or before.

 

[igor_kavinski]

At this point, Nvidia could strap a Gigabyte power supply to the 4090

Heaven or Hell? Just press the button and find out!

 

[leoneazzurro]

On AMD site, the specs for 7900 XTX say that the GPU has 6144 Stream Processors.

What the actuall ... is happening with this launch?

https://www.amd.com/en/products/graphics/amd-radeon-rx-7900xtx

6144 Dual-issue. More honest than who tries to sell single FP32 units as separate processors. (On the other side, can be a marketing trick or saying "eh, we do with 6144 what competition does with 10000+" lol)

 

[DAPUNISHER]

It won't matter that much now, but RT will be a major part of game engines in a few years. Only being able to match the 2-year old 3090 and 3090 Ti (on an ancient Samsung process with similar TDP) is dissapointing for me.

How many flagship buyers don't upgrade every gen? It is the I want the best niche. 2yrs from now should not matter to the bulk of that crowd.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

I wouldnt be surprised if the lower than expected clocks were just to keep the power down. And leaving plenty headroom for OC'ers to crank it up. Most reviews will take that into account in their verdict, which is likely what AMD are aiming for.

Or simply leaving it to the board partners. If their designs hit sick clocks over stock, a $200 mark up would be justifiable?:

 

[Hans Gruber]

I can short your stock?

AMD is not far off a 52-week low you still think it's time to short the stock?

I said in the next (Feb-April) 4-6 months. I am calculating the economy, the demand for CPU's and GPU's and the holiday season. Even with the 3D v-cache for Zen 4, it won't be enough. The semiconductor industry was flat for 10 years until covid. People will go back to building/rebuilding their computers every 4-5 years because of all the crazy prices for GPU's over the last 3.5 years.

The great thing about this forum. Everything is logged so you can see if I was right.

 

[igor_kavinski]

anyone care to answer?

Nvidia doesn't care. They know that they've got the average gamer by the balls. AMD cards are preferred by value conscious gamers who actually think their purchase through and weigh the pros and cons. Most Nvidia buyers (especially the younger ones) simply pay. It's Nvidia! That's enough reason for them. I don't expect any reactive pricing change from Nvidia.

 

[Stuka87]

Or simply leaving it to the board partners. If their designs hit sick clocks over stock, a $200 mark up would be justifiable?:

It almost seems like AMD gave more power to AIBs on purpose. AMD can sell their own card, low power, low price. And NOT step on the toes of the AIBs like nVidia does with the FE. And then the AIBs can crank up power, crank up clocks, and really compete on performance. Whereas nVidia AIBs basically all have the exact same performance because there is zero OC room, and the FE already pretty much maxes out the GPU performance.

 

[Snakexor]

bolt two 7900xtx or 7900xt together for a 7990! hehe

 

[Timorous]

So if we look at 4080 16GB raster performance using these 3 raster titles

Then that is what 20% faster than a 3090Ti. 25% at best?

Question is how will the 4080 actually do in RT given it has 76RT cores vs the 4090 128 RT cores. That is just 60% of the RT cores of the 4090. Will that card show as good RT performance. Guess we will find out in a couple of weeks.

Lets just say that the 4080 has the same relative loss in RE:Village as the 4090 which is a 25% reduction in frames when turning RT on vs raster alone.

In the TPU review a 6950XT gets 84 FPS so if RE:V is 1.5x that would be 126 FPS with RT on. A 4080 is about 20% faster in raster than the 3090Ti in that game so would be 162fps before turning RT on meaning with RT on we are at about 122 FPS. It looks as though in RE:Village at least the $999 7900XTX will be faster in raster and a tie in RT vs the 4080.

Metro Exodus is another game where AMD said they got 1.5x more performance in RT vs the 6950XT so in that game it would give the 7900XTX about 69FPS. The 4080 would get around 147 FPS before turning RT on and in Metro Exodus the 4090 loses 36% performance so if the 4080 matches that it would be 94 FPS which is a substantial win vs the 7900XTX.

Doom Eternal would also be an RT win for the 4080 16GB but a raster loss for it.

So looks like $999 7900XTX will win in raster quite easily but the $1,200 4080 16GB will win in RT with AMD maybe getting a few ties here and there. I expect that at similar price points AMD will offer the raster advantage and NV will offer the RT advantage and people will just need to pick what they prefer.

AD104 in the 4080 12GB vs the 7900XT would be pretty interesting. I think the 7900XT would win in raster pretty much across the board by a large 30% margin and for RT I could see it trading blows. The 7900XTX has about 26% more RT cores than the 4080 16GB (96 vs 76) where as the 7900XT would have about 40% more than the 4080 12GB (84 vs 60).

So now AD104 drops down to a 4070 tier part at some unknown price, maybe closer to $700 which would pitch it against the 7800XT probably and I see it playing out with the 7800XT having close to 4080 16GB raster performance but worse than 4070 RT performance and users need to choose what they want at the $700 price point.

 

[Gideon]

How many flagship buyers don't upgrade every gen? It is the I want the best niche. 2yrs from now should not matter to the bulk of that crowd.

Yeah, certainly many do, but not all. I know of at least 1 guy, still rocking his 1080 ti and waiting for the next card in the similar ~ 1K € price-range hoping to finally get something better than a RTX 3080 (that he could have bought 2 years ago for similar price if he did it at day one).

Don't get me wrong, the 7900 series is great overall and the MSRP is very well picked. It's just that the only thing separating it from a "slam-dunk" is a ~2x-2.3x RT performance uplift.

I myself would have seriously considered an upgrade in that case. Now I'll skip this gen for sure.

 

[Tigerick]

I said in the next (Feb-April) 4-6 months. I am calculating the economy, the demand for CPU's and GPU's and the holiday season. Even with the 3D v-cache for Zen 4, it won't be enough. The semiconductor industry was flat for 10 years until covid. People will go back to building/rebuilding their computers every 4-5 years because of all the crazy prices for GPU's over the last 3.5 years.

The great thing about this forum. Everything is logged so you can see if I was right.

Even you include upcoming mobile CPU Dragon Range and Phoenix Point, AMD still might not be making money with client department...

 

[DAPUNISHER]

It almost seems like AMD gave more power to AIBs on purpose. AMD can sell their own card, low power, low price. And NOT step on the toes of the AIBs like nVidia does with the FE. And then the AIBs can crank up power, crank up clocks, and really compete on performance. Whereas nVidia AIBs basically all have the exact same performance because there is zero OC room, and the FE already pretty much maxes out the GPU performance.

Exactly the same line of speculation I was pursuing. It may turn out, there is a physical limitation preventing much higher clocks. But what you wrote would be like the Yin to Nvidia's Yang. EVGA bails because Nvidia sucks so bad as a partner. The rest are stuck competing against them. AMD goes all white hat and gives the partners center stage. That would be fun. Probably won't happen because that is too awesome a scenario. AMD is better at just being MEH.

 

[Hans Gruber]

Nvidia doesn't care. They know that they've got the average gamer by the balls. AMD cards are preferred by value conscious gamers who actually think their purchase through and weigh the pros and cons. Most Nvidia buyers (especially the younger ones) simply pay. It's Nvidia! That's enough reason for them. I don't expect any reactive pricing change from Nvidia.

People should also factor in Nvidia's big gains with Ada have a lot to do with switching from Samsung silicon to TSMC silicon. More importantly AMD had a silicon advantage for RDNA1 and RDNA2 over Nvidia with regards to superior silicon. Now Nvidia is on TSMC silicon, a partial node ahead of AMD's RNDA3. I think Nvidia is on 4nm vs. 5nm for AMD. I realize Nvidia smoked AMD even on Samsung silicon for the last two generations. The switch to TSMC furthers Nvidia's advantage.

Add to it that Intel is also on TSMC silicon. Even if you think Intel's GPU's are a joke, the silicon is not a joke.

 

[eek2121]

Gamers Nexus just released a vid critical of the launch.

Tell me you didn't watch the video without telling me you didn't watch the video.

Exactly one part of Steve's rundown of AMD's presentation was negative. The rest was positive and provided factual information, including unique information AMD did not provide.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Yeah, certainly many do, but not all. I know of at least 1 guy, still rocking his 1080 ti and waiting for the next card in the similar ~ 1K € price-range hoping to finally get something better than a RTX 3080 (that he could have bought 2 years ago for similar price if he did it at day one).

Don't get me wrong, the 7900 series is great overall and the MSRP is very well picked. It's just that the only thing separating it from a "slam-dunk" is a ~2x-2.3x RT performance uplift.

I myself would have seriously considered an upgrade in that case. Now I'll skip this gen for sure.

Yes sir, always outliers. They have to choose differently. The much bigger part of the demographic swaps every time a new flagship shows up. Some even the refresh. Spending that much is a splurge for some, a habit for most.