Question Speculation: RDNA3 + CDNA2 Architectures Thread

[uzzi38]

Man I have been dying to make this one for a while now.

First rumours for RDNA3 are here so new thread time!

Just going to start off with this one for now: kopite7kimi on Twitter: "@VideoCardz Ah, I mean a simple mcm design with 10240 cores is not enough. Because the lift from RDNA2 to RDNA3 is much bigger than from RDNA1 to RDNA2. We should expect many big improvements in GFX11. 🤔" / Twitter

 

[dr1337]

7500xt being n33 could be a very substantial upgrade at the low end compared to n24, if they don't crank up prices that is. It will be interesting to see how AMD spins the 7700xt rebranding as surely a max OC n33 cannot reach n22 performance. As much as I'd like to see some variant of n33 that comes with a MCD glued on the side with 12gb, I don't see some extra bandwidth and cache bringing enough performance to be worth even more segmentation and packaging costs.

 

[jpiniero]

Possibly, but the naming is way off then. If the 7700XT is N33 and a full 32 CU, given the CU to CU scaling we've seen between N21 and N31 it would probably end up being slower than the 6700XT, let alone the 6750XT.

I imagine they had projected it to be at least a tad faster than the 6700 XT but yeah it's likely to be at best roughly the same performance. The bigger problem is that the 6700 XT goes for $349 now instead of it's original $479 MSRP, and has 50% more ram.

 

[MrTeal]

I imagine they had projected it to be at least a tad faster than the 6700 XT but yeah it's likely to be at best roughly the same performance. The bigger problem is that the 6700 XT goes for $349 now instead of it's original $479 MSRP, and has 50% more ram.

Yeah, none of it really makes a whole lot of sense. Even outside the price, it would be an objectively worse card than the one it replaces. The original leaked stack with a cut N31 7800XT and then N32 filling in the 12GB 7700 line is just so much more logical. Unless there's more that agrees with this, I really doubt this ROCm pull request matches with what we'll see released.

 

[Timorous]

Yeah, none of it really makes a whole lot of sense. Even outside the price, it would be an objectively worse card than the one it replaces. The original leaked stack with a cut N31 7800XT and then N32 filling in the 12GB 7700 line is just so much more logical. Unless there's more that agrees with this, I really doubt this ROCm pull request matches with what we'll see released.

If AMD want the 7700 XT to sell for around $500 then it needs 16GB of VRAM IMO. If the 4070 should be a 4060 at around $400 then even that is expensive for what would need to be 4070 equalling performance.

 

[jpiniero]

The original leaked stack with a cut N31 7800XT and then N32 filling in the 12GB 7700 line is just so much more logical.

That probally wasn't a leak... more people guessing what AMD would do based upon what they did with RDNA 2.

 

[eek2121]

All of AMD’s naming tends to be ‘way off’ when you compare with the competition.

I can't wait for the 7950XT & 7950XTX that appeared in ROCm.

AMD confirms mainstream Radeon 7000 GPU launch this quarter, RX 7950XT spotted in ROCm pull request - VideoCardz.com

AMD finally confirms its plans for the mainstream Radeon GPU series During the Q1 2023 earnings call, AMD CEO and President Dr. Lisa Su admitted the company will have an update to the mainstream series this quarter. Radeon 6500/6650XT, Source: TweakTown It is not a secret that AMD is working on...

videocardz.com

Likely higher TDP, possibly faster memory.

Doubt we will see more than a 5-10% performance uplift.

I really hope AMD addresses the RT and performance shortcomings for RDNA4. I am tired of buying NVIDIA x90 cards.

 

[Heartbreaker]

That probally wasn't a leak... more people guessing what AMD would do based upon what they did with RDNA 2.

Any early reports about naming/segmentation are meaningless, because is very easy and likely to change. When they have names printed on finished cards close to shipping, then it means something more, and even that can be changed (see RTX 4080 12 GB).

Since AMD is mostly launching after NVidia they can take advantage of knowledge of NVidia products to best position against them.

 

[PJVol]

The bigger problem is that the 6700 XT goes for $349 now instead of it's original $479 MSRP, and has 50% more ram.

.. and there's also 6700 10Gb for $299

 

[Timorous]

.. and there's also 6700 10Gb for $299

Which does limit the max price of an 8GB card to below $300 imo.

Imo AMD have 3 options for the 7600XT.
1) make it 8GB on N33 and sell it for $280 tops.
2) make it 16GB on N33 and sell it for $350 which is worse perf/$ than existing RDNA2 parts.
3) make it 12GB on a cut N32 and sell it for $400.

Option 2 is probably the most profitable but it would means a 12GB N32 part would look odd. Option 3 would clobber the 4060(Ti) at the same price point but wouldn't really be a better deal than the existing 6750XT. This option would also leave the door open for a $280 ish N33 7500XT with 8Gb of ram.

AMD do have options here, it just depends on what they want to do.

 

[PJVol]

It could be curious to look at this "Seeding List". Anyone have it? )

 

[Mopetar]

78xx and 77xx will be N32. 77xx models will be 12 GB instead of 16, but there may be overlap in shader count. 76xx might be N32 as well depending on how they want to bin it. 75xx on down is definitely N33. 795x is either existing N31 with slight bumps or is an N31 respin with some potentially larger performance uplift. Existing 79xx parts likely see price cuts to fit between the new 795x parts and 78xx parts.

N33 based 76xx would have a hard time replacing the 6600 XT and 6650 XT though unless N33 reliability hits 3 GHz clocks. Otherwise it's not going to have more shaders or VRAM and there's not enough architectural goodness to justify what AMD would want to charge for a new card. N32 does offer the option of more shaders and 12 GB of VRAM but it does stretch N32 across a lot of bins.

Regardless of what they actually do, none of it matters much until it comes to market.

 

[jpiniero]

N33 based 76xx would have a hard time replacing the 6600 XT and 6650 XT though unless N33 reliability hits 3 GHz clocks.

It should still be a fair amount faster. As for the pricing, well, it would make more sense if RDNA 2 supply was wiped out first.

 

[maddie]

It should still be a fair amount faster. As for the pricing, well, it would make more sense if RDNA 2 supply was wiped out first.

Concerning N33, the fact that's coming in a few weeks, suggests, that either there is no big inventory problem, or it will slot in at the old 66XX MSRPs at most. Pick your poison.

 

[Aapje]

Concerning N33, the fact that's coming in a few weeks, suggests, that either there is no big inventory problem, or it will slot in at the old 66XX MSRPs at most. Pick your poison.

I think that it's both. I expect AMD to overprice the 7600 and once the 6600 has mostly sold out, we'll see the prices go down gradually.

 

[KompuKare]

I think that it's both. I expect AMD to overprice the 7600 and once the 6600 has mostly sold out, we'll see the prices go down gradually.

Why change a failing model, eh?

Overprice at launch, get poor reviews and few sales, then cut the price.

You'd almost think AMD did this on purpose!

 

[Aapje]

It does make sense as a sales strategy, when you cannot effectively starve the sales channel of the old product, so they have to sell side by side for a while.

It is pretty hard to completely replace a product on the shelves, where the old product suddenly becomes (nearly) unsellable because the new product is better for the same price, without having empty shelves for a while. Especially since you can't easily change the release date of the new product, because reviewers need to know when they can release their reviews, you have to buy ad space in advance for a certain date, etc.

Basically, you have to predict the sales in each market very accurately.

 

[Ajay]

This has probably already been posted (almost a year old); but it does look like AMD is targeting the end of 2023 for RDNA4. Of course, this is subject to the vagaries of AMD's 'roadmaps'. It’s entirely possible that AMD knew in advance (a year or two b/4 release) that they were going to come up short vis-a-vis Nvidia and moved some extra engineering talent to their next GPU uarch.

 

[SteinFG]

This has probably already been posted (almost a year old); but it does look like AMD is targeting the end of 2023 for RDNA4. Of course, this is subject to the vagaries of AMD's 'roadmaps'. It’s entirely possible that AMD knew in advance (a year or two b/4 release) that they were going to come up short vis-a-vis Nvidia and moved some extra engineering talent to their next GPU uarch.

View attachment 80336

This picture doesn't imply it. The years at the bottom are included in the roadmap. So RDNA4 is 2024.

 

[PJVol]

78xx and 77xx will be N32. 77xx models will be 12 GB instead of 16, but there may be overlap in shader count

Any evidence supporting this claim?
Afaik gfx1101 is nowhere to be seen in a mesa or amdgpu sources so far.

 

[Ajay]

This picture doesn't imply it. The years at the bottom are included in the roadmap. So RDNA4 is 2024.

Well, it is vague, as RDNA 4 comes before 2024 - but there is a stupid arrow the as per AMD SOP. I posted this hoping someone with more up to date knowledge might chime in. If such information is out there. Perhaps we will need to wait till this year's summer FAD for a bit more info.

 

[SteinFG]

Any evidence supporting this claim?
Afaik gfx1101 is nowhere to be seen in a mesa or amdgpu sources so far.

Common sense, i think. 6700XT has 12 GB, 7700(XT) will have the same amount. Same with 6800(XT) -> 7800(XT) with 16GB. And since N32 is a 256-bit card, it'll be used for both 7700 and 7800.

AMD is also not happy with 7900XT sales (but XTX is alright) because we already see big price drops on a 900 msrp, so I doubt they want to cut n31 even more and sell for even less, when 6950XT exists.

 

[SteinFG]

Well, it is vague, as RDNA 4 comes before 2024 - but there is a stupid arrow the as per AMD SOP. I posted this hoping someone with more up to date knowledge might chime in. If such information is out there. Perhaps we will need to wait till this year's summer FAD for a bit more info.

Here, Same style, but year 2020.

Zen 4 and RDNA 3 were late 2022 products, and nobody was thinking/saying that they were going to be out in 2021

 

[Kepler_L2]

This has probably already been posted (almost a year old); but it does look like AMD is targeting the end of 2023 for RDNA4. Of course, this is subject to the vagaries of AMD's 'roadmaps'. It’s entirely possible that AMD knew in advance (a year or two b/4 release) that they were going to come up short vis-a-vis Nvidia and moved some extra engineering talent to their next GPU uarch.

View attachment 80336

Their roadmaps are inclusive of the whole calendar year shown. I.e this roadmap shows from beginning of 2019 to end of 2024.

 

[Kepler_L2]

Any evidence supporting this claim?
Afaik gfx1101 is nowhere to be seen in a mesa or amdgpu sources so far.

clr/rocclr/device/pal/paldevice.cpp at 1cd99b505691a2ce1e37ef1b1f769761ad23bc46 · ROCm/clr

Contribute to ROCm/clr development by creating an account on GitHub.

github.com

 

[PJVol]

clr/rocclr/device/pal/paldevice.cpp at 1cd99b505691a2ce1e37ef1b1f769761ad23bc46 · ROCm/clr

Contribute to ROCm/clr development by creating an account on GitHub.

github.com

Thanks, it's long known N32 is gfx1101, though gfx IP in a ROCm sources doesn't match hardware GC IP, rather LLVM compiler target version (n32 is GC 11.0.3 and gfx target 110001)
Anyway, I mean did you come across any info to support the assertion that the desktop 7700 is N32, e.g. existing Pci Dev. IDs or graphics engine config ?

Spoiler

// GFX11_0_0
{GDT_GFX11_0_0, 0x73A8, 0x00, GDT_HW_GENERATION_GFX11, true, "gfx1100", "AMD Radeon(TM) Graphics"},
{GDT_GFX11_0_0, 0x744C, 0xC0, GDT_HW_GENERATION_GFX11, true, "gfx1100", "AMD Radeon(TM) Graphics"},
{GDT_GFX11_0_0, 0x744C, 0xC8, GDT_HW_GENERATION_GFX11, true, "gfx1100", "AMD Radeon RX 7900 XTX"},
{GDT_GFX11_0_0, 0x744C, 0xCC, GDT_HW_GENERATION_GFX11, true, "gfx1100", "AMD Radeon RX 7900 XT"},
{GDT_GFX11_0_0, 0x744C, 0xCE, GDT_HW_GENERATION_GFX11, true, "gfx1100", "AMD Radeon(TM) Graphics"},
{GDT_GFX11_0_0, 0x744C, 0xE0, GDT_HW_GENERATION_GFX11, true, "gfx1100", "AMD Radeon(TM) Graphics"},
{GDT_GFX11_0_0, 0x744C, 0xEC, GDT_HW_GENERATION_GFX11, true, "gfx1100", "AMD Radeon(TM) Graphics"},
{GDT_GFX11_0_0, 0x744C, 0xEE, GDT_HW_GENERATION_GFX11, true, "gfx1100", "AMD Radeon(TM) Graphics"},
{GDT_GFX11_0_0, 0x744C, 0xCF, GDT_HW_GENERATION_GFX11, true, "gfx1100", "AMD Radeon(TM) Graphics"},
{GDT_GFX11_0_0, 0x7448, 0x00, GDT_HW_GENERATION_GFX11, true, "gfx1100", "AMD Radeon(TM) Graphics"},
{GDT_GFX11_0_0, 0x745E, 0xCC, GDT_HW_GENERATION_GFX11, true, "gfx1100", "AMD Radeon(TM) Graphics"},

// GFX11_0_2
{GDT_GFX11_0_2, 0x73F0, 0x3C, GDT_HW_GENERATION_GFX11, true, "gfx1102", "AMD Radeon(TM) Graphics"},
{GDT_GFX11_0_2, 0x73F0, 0x3D, GDT_HW_GENERATION_GFX11, true, "gfx1102", "AMD Radeon(TM) Graphics"},
{GDT_GFX11_0_2, 0x73F0, 0xF5, GDT_HW_GENERATION_GFX11, true, "gfx1102", "AMD Radeon(TM) Graphics"},
{GDT_GFX11_0_2, 0x73F0, 0xF6, GDT_HW_GENERATION_GFX11, true, "gfx1102", "AMD Radeon(TM) Graphics"},
{GDT_GFX11_0_2, 0x73F0, 0xF7, GDT_HW_GENERATION_GFX11, true, "gfx1102", "AMD Radeon(TM) Graphics"},
{GDT_GFX11_0_2, 0x7480, 0xC0, GDT_HW_GENERATION_GFX11, true, "gfx1102", "AMD Radeon(TM) Graphics"},
{GDT_GFX11_0_2, 0x7480, 0xCF, GDT_HW_GENERATION_GFX11, true, "gfx1102", "AMD Radeon(TM) Graphics"},
{GDT_GFX11_0_2, 0x749F, 0xCF, GDT_HW_GENERATION_GFX11, true, "gfx1102", "AMD Radeon(TM) Graphics"},
{GDT_GFX11_0_2, 0x73F0, 0x3E, GDT_HW_GENERATION_GFX11, true, "gfx1102", "AMD Radeon(TM) Graphics"},
{GDT_GFX11_0_2, 0x73F0, 0x3F, GDT_HW_GENERATION_GFX11, true, "gfx1102", "AMD Radeon(TM) Graphics"},
{GDT_GFX11_0_2, 0x73F0, 0xF1, GDT_HW_GENERATION_GFX11, true, "gfx1102", "AMD Radeon(TM) Graphics"},
{GDT_GFX11_0_2, 0x73F0, 0xF2, GDT_HW_GENERATION_GFX11, true, "gfx1102", "AMD Radeon(TM) Graphics"},
{GDT_GFX11_0_2, 0x73F0, 0xF3, GDT_HW_GENERATION_GFX11, true, "gfx1102", "AMD Radeon(TM) Graphics"},
{GDT_GFX11_0_2, 0x73F0, 0xF4, GDT_HW_GENERATION_GFX11, true, "gfx1102", "AMD Radeon(TM) Graphics"},
{GDT_GFX11_0_2, 0x7480, 0xC1, GDT_HW_GENERATION_GFX11, true, "gfx1102", "AMD Radeon RX 7700S"},
{GDT_GFX11_0_2, 0x7480, 0xC3, GDT_HW_GENERATION_GFX11, true, "gfx1102", "AMD Radeon RX 7600S"},
{GDT_GFX11_0_2, 0x7480, 0xC7, GDT_HW_GENERATION_GFX11, true, "gfx1102", "AMD Radeon RX 7600M XT"},
{GDT_GFX11_0_2, 0x7483, 0xCF, GDT_HW_GENERATION_GFX11, true, "gfx1102", "AMD Radeon RX 7600M"},
{GDT_GFX11_0_2, 0x7480, 0x00, GDT_HW_GENERATION_GFX11, true, "gfx1102", "AMD Radeon(TM) Graphics"},
{GDT_GFX11_0_2, 0x7481, 0x00, GDT_HW_GENERATION_GFX11, true, "gfx1102", "AMD Radeon(TM) Graphics"},
{GDT_GFX11_0_2, 0x7489, 0x00, GDT_HW_GENERATION_GFX11, true, "gfx1102", "AMD Radeon(TM) Graphics"},
{GDT_GFX11_0_2, 0x748B, 0x00, GDT_HW_GENERATION_GFX11, true, "gfx1102", "AMD Radeon(TM) Graphics"},

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
< Number of shader engines.
< Number of wave slots per SIMD.
< Number of clocks it takes to process a primitive.
< Max number of SQ counters.
< Number of primitive pipes.
< Wavefront size.
< Number of shader array per Shader Engine.
< Number of compute unit per Shader Array.
< Number of SIMDs per Compute unit.

{6, 16, 1, 8, 12, 64, 2, 8, 2, true}, // GDT_GFX11_0_0
{2, 16, 1, 16, 4, 64, 2, 8, 2, true}, // GDT_GFX11_0_2