Question Speculation: RDNA3 + CDNA2 Architectures Thread

[uzzi38]

Man I have been dying to make this one for a while now.

First rumours for RDNA3 are here so new thread time!

Just going to start off with this one for now: kopite7kimi on Twitter: "@VideoCardz Ah, I mean a simple mcm design with 10240 cores is not enough. Because the lift from RDNA2 to RDNA3 is much bigger than from RDNA1 to RDNA2. We should expect many big improvements in GFX11. 🤔" / Twitter

 

[Timorous]

6750 XT already basically runs at 2.7. Plus it has much more IF$ and memory bandwidth than N33 allegedly has. I am also wondering about what the ROPs and TMUs configuration is.

I wouldn't rule it out but it's looking more like N33 is more of an AD106 competitor rather than 4070. That may not really be a problem given the mobile focus.

N33 has always been an AD106 competitor, you have just refused to see it and for some reason thought it would be the 7700 series part rather than the 7600 series part.

128bit and 8GB of ram was a dead giveaway for that.

 

[TESKATLIPOKA]

2.7 GHz is base clocks territory for RDNA3. And ofc it's an AD106 competitor, it's literally less than half of xtors of AD104.

That doesn't tell us much.
For example:
RX 6600 has base: 1626 MHz, but turbo is 2491 MHz(+53%).
RX 6700 has base: 2321 MHz, but turbo is 2581 MHz(+11%).

If I apply It to what you said, then turbo could be either 3 GHz(+11%) or 4.13 GHz(+53%).

 

[Kepler_L2]

That doesn't tell us much.
For example:
RX 6600 has base: 1626 MHz, but turbo is 2491 MHz(+53%).
RX 6700 has base: 2321 MHz, but turbo is 2581 MHz(+11%).

If I apply It to what you said, then turbo could be either 3 GHz(+11%) or 4.13 GHz(+53%).

Closer to the 2nd guess from what I know.

 

[TESKATLIPOKA]

Closer to the 2nd guess from what I know.

Second guess? Not the first one? Your chart at twitter has max 3.4GHz.

If It's closer to the second one, then turbo should be higher than 3650 MHz and that is a big increase compared to RDNA2. The most likely candidate in my opinion is N33, but I have to wonder about power consumption.

Specs would look like this for N33 -> 16WGP:4096SP:128TMU:64ROP. Maybe the number of TMUs will be doubled?
Processing power at 3.65 GHz would be 29.9 TFLOPs while RX 6950XT has 23.7 TFLOPs.

 

[Kaluan]

If those specs were actually legit for Navi 33, I've have to think it'd be tough for it to be competitive with the 4070 and would get killed by The Flood (if it happens).

Why would a $300 RX 7600 GPU compete with a $500 RTX 4070? lol

Was N23 also supposed to compete with GA-104? Cause this is news to me.

 

[TESKATLIPOKA]

Why would a $300 RX 7600 GPU compete with a $500 RTX 4070? lol

Was N23 also supposed to compete with GA-104? Cause this is news to me.

Do you really think N33 will cost only $300? Even a cutdown N33 won't cost less than $349-379 in my opinion.

BTW Bondrewd is back at beyond3d forum and is more or less confirming Angstronomics info about RDNA3, not sure If he meant everything is correct.

edit: Just because die size is supposedly smaller than N23 + cheaper process, that doesn't mean N33 will cost less than N23.

edit 2: N33 supposedly draws less than 160-170W in games, according to him.

 

[Karnak]

Do you really think N33 will cost only $300? Even a cutdown N33 won't cost less than $349-379 in my opinion.

N23 is 237mm2. 6600 MSRP is $329, 6600XT MSRP is $379.
N33 is 203mm2 allegedly.

But yes, if the die size (and N6) are true for N33 it'll most likely be cheaper than the 6600XT.

 

[Saylick]

Do you really think N33 will cost only $300? Even a cutdown N33 won't cost less than $349-379 in my opinion.

BTW Bondrewd is back at beyond3d forum and is more or less confirming Angstronomics info about RDNA3, not sure If he meant everything is correct.

I think your link is broken, but I'll link the relevant posts from them at B3D:
https://forum.beyond3d.com/threads/amd-rdna-3-speculation-rumours-and-discussion.62092/post-2259832


https://forum.beyond3d.com/threads/amd-rdna-3-speculation-rumours-and-discussion.62092/post-2259844


https://forum.beyond3d.com/threads/amd-rdna-3-speculation-rumours-and-discussion.62092/post-2259849

 

[Karnak]

You can trust Bondrewd when it comes to AMD GPUs, but damn his writing skills are weird af.

 

[Saylick]

You can trust Bondrewd when it comes to AMD GPUs, but damn his writing skills are weird af.

His writing is pretty gucci if you ask me.

 

[TESKATLIPOKA]

Oh no, they acutely know their competitive positioning.
Raw PPA goes first undeniably (the thing will power the highest volume client AMD APU ever made), but FF advancements go hand-in-hand with the rest, too, see OREO.

So he is talking about Phoenix (Point). That sounds promising. Hopefully we will see way better availability than Rembrandt.

edit: I asked him about availability. Link

 

[jpiniero]

N33 has always been an AD106 competitor, you have just refused to see it and for some reason thought it would be the 7700 series part rather than the 7600 series part.

As I've been saying, there should be no need for more than one decent cut on N31 and N32. So regardless of performance, 7700/XT is what makes the most sense with N32 being 7800/XT and N31 being 7900/XT.

Why would a $300 RX 7600 GPU compete with a $500 RTX 4070? lol

4070 probably closer to $700.

 

[Timorous]

As I've been saying, there should be no need for more than one decent cut on N31 and N32. So regardless of performance, 7700/XT is what makes the most sense with N32 being 7800/XT and N31 being 7900/XT.



4070 probably closer to $700.

With this N32 spec 1 cut with 8WGPs per SE active would be a perfect 7700XT when coupled with 3MCDs.

That means full N32 could be 7800 and cut 20GB N31 is 7800XT. Then 7900XT can be full N31 with stacked MCDs and 7900 cwn be a lower clocked, maybe slightly cut version with non stacked MCDs.

So not a million miles from my proposed stack a few pages back.

 

[Kaluan]

Do you really think N33 will cost only $300? Even a cutdown N33 won't cost less than $349-379 in my opinion.

4070 probably closer to $700.

I didn't mean to imply that will be the pricing, I was just emphasising that AMD x600 and nV xx70 GPUs have always been part of different pricing segments. N33 has nothing to prove agaist Ada-104 (except obviously to top it in the next gen price/perf chart, like RX 6600/N23 does now for current gen).


BTW whatever happened to the so-called Navi3x, the one said to have 15K ALUs and speculated to be made out of 2x N32s and be 512bit?

I wanna point out (for what it's worth) that the current 7680 core N32 spec 'correction' lines up with the ancient rumor of N31 = 15360 cores, but this GPU is actually the aforementioned Navi3x/dual GCD design, not N31.

 

[Joe NYC]

BTW whatever happened to the so-called Navi3x, the one said to have 15K ALUs and speculated to be made out of 2x N32s and be 512bit?

I wanna point out (for what it's worth) that the current 7680 core N32 spec 'correction' lines up with the ancient rumor of N31 = 15360 cores, but this GPU is actually the aforementioned Navi3x/dual GCD design, not N31.

If AMD were to release such a part, perhaps as a refresh, move it to N4 (if not already there), I think there is room to stretch the current architecture: stretching the GCD die, adding 2 more MCDs.

As opposed to inventing a whole new wheel.

 

[GodisanAtheist]

Ah, here we go. Step away from this thread for a couple days and it's choo mutha****in' choo in here.

The beauty of even this chiplet approach is AMD can essentially design a slightly larger GCD with a ton of extra compute hardware, keep everything else more or less the same (including board design) and release a new part.

No need to redesign the whole thing top to bottom, just plug in a different mix of parts. Who knows if that 15k GCD is actually an N3x part that is a mid-gen spoiler/refresh like the old 290x part was way back at the start of 28nm.

 

[Saylick]

Looks like a reiteration of 6900XT performance at 1080p for N33. I repeat: 200mm2 N6 performing as well as 520mm2 N7 at 1080p. All within a power level under 160W.

Edit: fixing broken link.

AMD: RDNA 3 Speculation, Rumours and Discussion

AMD may deem other areas more important. Oh no, they acutely know their competitive positioning. Raw PPA goes first undeniably (the thing will power the highest volume client AMD APU ever made), but FF advancements go hand-in-hand with the rest, too, see OREO.

forum.beyond3d.com

 

[exquisitechar]

Looks like a reiteration of 6900XT perf at 1080p for N33. I repeat: 200mm2 N6 performing as well as 520mm2 N7 at 1080p. All within a power level under 160W.

I think it will be slower than the 6900XT, but it might be pretty close at 1080p.

BTW whatever happened to the so-called Navi3x, the one said to have 15K ALUs and speculated to be made out of 2x N32s and be 512bit?

I wanna point out (for what it's worth) that the current 7680 core N32 spec 'correction' lines up with the ancient rumor of N31 = 15360 cores, but this GPU is actually the aforementioned Navi3x/dual GCD design, not N31.

From what I've seen from the most reliable leakers, multi GCD GPUs aren't happening this generation. Pretty confident we'll get them with RDNA4, though.

 

[TESKATLIPOKA]

N33 performance will depend on game. Not as good, but now It's more in line with specs. <=160W TBP and performance higher than RX 6800 is still not bad, we will see the price.



edit: Correct Link

 

[Timorous]

N33 performance will depend on game. Not as good, but now It's more in line with specs. <=160W TBP and performance higher than RX 6800 is still not bad, we will see the price.


View attachment 65887

It will depend on compute vs bandwidth bottlenecks. Compute bound stuff will be 6900XT or maybe greater. Memory bound stuff will be slower.

I expect at 1080p and 1440p performance will be close over a 50 game suite and at 4K the 6900XT will be quite a bit faster.

 

[TESKATLIPOKA]

Bondrewd didn't specify If the weaker performance is only at higher resolution, or If It happens also at 1080p.

 

[Karnak]

Well if we're going with 20gbps GDDR6 for N33 there's enough raw bandwidth (320GB/s + the additional IF$) for 1080p. Shouldn't be a problem at all.

 

[Timorous]

Well if we're going with 20gbps GDDR6 for N33 there's enough raw bandwidth (320GB/s + the additional IF$) for 1080p. Shouldn't be a problem at all.

Which is absolutely fine for a x600 level part.

 

[HurleyBird]

I sure hope this generation isn't a repeat of RV770 vs GT200 (unless we also had a repeat of those great prices) where AMD's products had a massive architectural advantage that they squandered by ceding the performance crown and not making any large die products. It feels sort of like things are shaping up that way, even though you wouldn't expect it from the new AMD.

 

[Kepler_L2]

I sure hope this generation isn't a repeat of RV770 vs GT200 (unless we also had a repeat of those great prices) where AMD's products had a massive architectural advantage that they squandered by ceding the performance crown and not making any large die products. It feels sort of like things are shaping up that way, even though you wouldn't expect it from the new AMD.

N31 is only 10% smaller than AD102.