Question Speculation: RDNA3 + CDNA2 Architectures Thread

[uzzi38]

Man I have been dying to make this one for a while now.

First rumours for RDNA3 are here so new thread time!

Just going to start off with this one for now: kopite7kimi on Twitter: "@VideoCardz Ah, I mean a simple mcm design with 10240 cores is not enough. Because the lift from RDNA2 to RDNA3 is much bigger than from RDNA1 to RDNA2. We should expect many big improvements in GFX11. 🤔" / Twitter

 

[AnandThenMan]

Gamers Nexus just released a vid critical of the launch.

Steve being negative? How dismaying and shocking.

 

[Hans Gruber]

AMD is not a charity, the reason its cheaper is because they know the RT performance isn't as good.

The reality is RT is a big deal these days. I play Cyperpunk 2077 with RT fully on on my 4K oled and it looks incredible with both RT and HDR, especially at night.

imo of course.

I have AMD as a stock you want to short in the next 4-6 months.

 

[Hitman928]

Gamers Nexus just released a vid critical of the launch.

I appreciate GN's reviews and more technical videos/articles. I could live without the reaction videos. But, they bring in the views so I don't blame him for publishing them.

 

[JayMX]

I suggest we first see some independent reviews then we can judge better.

 

[Hitman928]

Personally, and all offense intended to the AMD RTG marketing team, I take their slides with so much salt I may need my stomach pumped.

Their CPU launch numbers have been spot on for generations. I don't remember their GPU numbers being inaccurate in the recent past but I honestly don't pay as much attention to GPUs anymore.

 

[Tup3x]

I was quite surprised by that too. 1.7x in raster and 1.5x in RT implies that it's relatively worse in RT now than RDNA2, which is strange. Wonder what the bottleneck is, memory bandwidth?

It is strange. I was expecting at least 2x improvement in ray tracing performance and even that would have been slightly underwhelming. RDNA2 set the bar quite low so 1,5x improvement isn't that much.

 

[Hitman928]

One just observation from the launch, it does seem like AMD is spending more money and getting more involved with developers to optimize for Radeon from the get go. They announced, I think, 3 new technical partnerships for games/engines in development. This will obviously help them competitively as those games are released. I wonder if they'll see significantly better relative RT performance in those games as well, I suspect they will.

 

[Timorous]

If AMD's numbers shown hold true, the 4090 should only be about 10% faster than the 7900XTX in raster.

Indeed. 1.54x perf/watt (can't find the end note on that. 816 does not seem to exist in the slide deck TPU have so don't know what games were tested but I am going to assume it is 6950XT vs 7900XTX in a suite of several games because that is usually how they do things) with 1.06x more power is about 63% faster than the 6950XT on average and would fit within the upto 1.7x claim.

Techspot have the 6950XT scoring around 85fps on a geomean average at 4K vs 144 for the 4090. 1.63x would be 138-139fps so within 5% or 95% of the 4090 performance.

So I do wonder where 7900XT performance will land. Pricing would suggest the XTX is about 10% faster than the 7900XT so the 7900XT should be around 125fps in the above chart.

The 4080 12GB was around 3080Ti / 3090 performance in the NV charts and 4080 16GB was about in the middle of that and the 4090 so that would be about 115 on the above chart for the 4080 16GB so it does look like the $900 7900XT is going to be competitive in raster vs the $1,200 4080 16GB.

As for N32 well 7.5k shaders @ 2.5Ghz probably gets in to around 105fps in that chart or about 48% faster than the 6800XT and making the 7900XT about 20% faster than the 7800XT it kinda looks reasonable. Pricing on that is likely what $650 - 700. Pretty good perf/$ gain and would also be far faster than what NV tried to charge $900 for in raster atleast.

And then 7700XT is probably going to be around 6950 / 3090Ti levels given what was said about N32 matching the 6950XT in a 150W envelope.

7600XT using N33 could easily be 6800 - 6800XT tier. Probably closer to the latter at 1080p and the former at 4k.

 

[Tup3x]

View attachment 70371

View attachment 70372

I suggest we first see some independent reviews then we can judge better.

You do realise that is using the ultra über what ever unreleased ray tracing version?

 

[Stuka87]

AMD is not a charity, the reason its cheaper is because they know the RT performance isn't as good.

The reality is RT is a big deal these days. I play Cyperpunk 2077 with RT fully on on my 4K oled and it looks incredible with both RT and HDR, especially at night.

imo of course.

Not entirely true.

They can be much cheaper because they aren't monolithic. Its way cheaper to make a bunch of smaller dies, and one gigantic die. These being cheaper than the previous gen shows this.

I would not say RT is a big deal. Most people I know leave it off, even with RTX cards because it kills performance for what little difference it adds to the visuals. Yes, this is anecdotal, but its more hyped by marketing and reviewers than it is by actual users. CyberPunk is one of the few games that really looks great with RT. For most games, its hardly noticeable in motion.

Also of note, I think this is one of the first times in a LONG time we have seen a price REDUCTION from one generation to the next.

 

[Timorous]

7900XT has only 5376 SP and 7900XTX has 6144 SP, no wonder performance is low and AMD has to set price lower

Depends if it is doing 4 ops / SP / clock or 2 ops / SP / clock. If the latter it is 12,288 and the latter is more standard for fp32 calc.

 

[Karnak]

AMD is not a charity, the reason its cheaper is because they know the RT performance isn't as good.

The reality is RT is a big deal these days. I play Cyperpunk 2077 with RT fully on on my 4K oled and it looks incredible with both RT and HDR, especially at night.

imo of course.

Definitely this. The 7900XTX will truggle in RT (heavy) games even against older Ampere GPUs like the 3080. That's the real bad thing and that's why AMD can't charge more then what they do.

I mean idc about RT on a GPU like the 6600XT, but the absolute high end and best chip for (almost) one grand? Sorry, but at this price tag RT performance most likely even below GA102 is not good enough in 2022/2023 for your best chip.

 

[Asterox]

Just as a reminder, for all the people who don't seem to see the difference in the price(official prices), and what we can buy for that 600$ difference in price.

AMD Ryzen 7 7700X - 8-Core 4.5 GHz - Socket AM5 - 105W Desktop Processor (100-100000591WOF) - Newegg.com

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GIGABYTE B650M DS3H AM5 LGA 1718 AMD B650 M-ATX Motherboard with 5-Year Warranty, DDR5, PCIe 4.0 M.2, PCIe 4.0, USB 3.2 Gen2X2 Type-C, , 2.5GbE LAN - Newegg.com

Buy GIGABYTE B650M DS3H AM5 LGA 1718 AMD B650 M-ATX Motherboard with 5-Year Warranty, DDR5, PCIe 4.0 M.2, PCIe 4.0, USB 3.2 Gen2X2 Type-C, , 2.5GbE LAN with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!

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Silicon Power 1TB NVMe PCIe Gen3 x4 M.2 2280 TLC SSD (SP001TBP34A60M28) - Newegg.com

Buy Silicon Power 1TB NVMe PCIe Gen3 x4 M.2 2280 TLC SSD (SP001TBP34A60M28) with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!

www.newegg.com

 

[moinmoin]

Looks to be more of an evolutionary than a revolutionary launch. Great continued advancement in efficiency. No surprises.

I personally was expecting multi-GCD for RDNA3 which would have given room to scale up. That possibility fizzled out pretty early on.

I'm now expecting it for RDNA4. AMD had a headstart with MCM designs but for GPUs this may be getting close as Nvidia should have MCM designs of its own coming in one of its future gens.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

AMD is not a charity, the reason its cheaper is because they know the RT performance isn't as good.

The reality is RT is a big deal these days. I play Cyperpunk 2077 with RT fully on on my 4K oled and it looks incredible with both RT and HDR, especially at night.

imo of course.

Cyberpunk is the only game I care about ray tracing in so far. I hear mine craft is awesome but I don't play it. Spiderman reflections look cool, but I have not bought it yet.

This launch is a perfect example of AMD's big problem in the GPU space. They would have to bring back tech from the future to win any mind or market share back. They are going to compete on price as usual, because Nvidia, unlike Intel never took their foot off the gas. Catching them is going to require team green to take a pit stop.

I don't know what all the surprised Pikachu over the ray tracing is about. Some of you really thought they were going to be competitive there? It was the smart money bet there was no way that was going to happen. Maybe in the games they sponsor they will look good, since it is optimized for them. Games like Cyberpunk'd? That would have been a herculean task based on current gen performance.

 

[gdansk]

I've had RTX cards since they launched in 2018 and can still count on three fingers the games I've tried with RT enabled.

For me it's not a selling feature. Probably won't be until consoles can actually ray trace.

 

[igor_kavinski]

I play Cyperpunk 2077 with RT fully on on my 4K oled and it looks incredible with both RT and HDR, especially at night.

imo of course.

Mine too. Night scenes stunningly come alive on an HDR OLED screen. The RT part, I'm not sure. Most of the online comparisons I've seen haven't been that convincing, at least for CP2077's RT usage. It's possible that they have RT'alized the visuals significantly in the latter patches.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

One just observation from the launch, it does seem like AMD is spending more money and getting more involved with developers to optimize for Radeon from the get go. They announced, I think, 3 new technical partnerships for games/engines in development. This will obviously help them competitively as those games are released. I wonder if they'll see significantly better relative RT performance in those games as well, I suspect they will.

I was still composing and writing when you posted that. I had the same thought. Spiderman is one of their best showings. These new games may favor their method even more.

 

[amenx]

Does anyone have a rough estimate of performance difference of XT vs XTX? 10% in line with price maybe?

 

[AnandThenMan]

I have AMD as a stock you want to short in the next 4-6 months.

I can short your stock?

AMD is not far off a 52-week low you still think it's time to short the stock?

 

[TESKATLIPOKA]

It looks like my expectations were high.
My biggest miscalculation was the clockspeed.
I would have never expected that the clockspeed would improve only by ~15% and even that not for the whole chip.
355W TBP and 54% better perf/W is also pretty disappointing considering the actual clocks and 5nm process.
AMD managed the same perf/W moving from RDNA->RDNA2 and that was still 7nm and clocks increased significantly.
Raster performance is not that bad, RT performance is bad.
Price looks pretty good.

 

[DisEnchantment]

They got ray traversal and ray sorting function in HW but they manage only 1.5x perf per Ray accelerator?



Their GCD size is too conservative vs the competition.
Same clocks, 1.2x CUs/Ray Unit * 1.5x = 1.8x perf.
I did mention that they need close to 400mm2 to be competitive. Seems they want to make the value play.
But it looks like it will do well in raster.
Clocks strangely conservative.

 

[Paul98]

For the size, transistors, and power, the disappointment is the RT performance. It really needed 2x RT performance, it's looking like even larger RT vs raster deficit, as raster performance increased more than RT performance.

But it's good to see this new design, I was expecting something without top performance on this first go. Especially after seeing the performance, power, cost and size of the 4090.

Though we still wait on a GPU chiplet with graphics cores

 

[DAPUNISHER]

I've had RTX cards since they launched in 2018 and can still count on three fingers the games I've tried with RT enabled.

For me it's not a selling feature. Probably won't be until consoles can actually ray trace.

I am the same way. I can't really eve notice any of the effects except reflections. Which is the one I dig.

I have to say however, that clip of the spooky horror game with RT they showed looked atmospheric as hell. That might be a "RT on" must for me.

 

[linkgoron]

IMO, given their "upto 70% faster" numbers, I assume that it'll be around 55%-60% faster than the 6950XT, which would put it around 15-20% slower than the 4090.

As a side-note, I watched the GN video, and I don't get why Steve takes minor jokes against a competitor so seriously. The 4090 is huge and has a new connector, and AMD states that they have a regular connector and a normal sized card, and yes, the 8K stuff really is laughable. However, those are really weird things to waste a significant chunk (I think that somewhere between 1/3 and 1/2) of his video on.