Speculation: Ryzen 3000 series

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realibrad

Lifer
Oct 18, 2013
12,337
898
126
Vs 14lpp? I dont think so and havnt seen it - where?
That said there must be some limitations, one way or another, how fast they can drive a twice as fat fpu.

Long term we may see higher clocks, but, at the launch of a new node we often see lower clocks vs the previous node. Further, here is Forrest Norrod talking about clock stagnation and or possible regression.


Now, what he is saying is that there is Less Frequency gains per node, but, you also have to look at history. When Intel jumped nodes, they often had chips that started out at lower frequencies. As the node matures, they are able to clock higher. Also consider that the metals and materials are changing.


Here he talks about "... means that as we continually shrink our processes now we don't get any more frequency, and really with this next node, without doing extraordinary things we get less frequency..."

So, maybe long term we get higher clocks, but, its also very possible that we launch with lower clocks given more cores, higher heat density, and node constraints.
 

itsmydamnation

Platinum Member
Feb 6, 2011
2,864
3,418
136
Long term we may see higher clocks, but, at the launch of a new node we often see lower clocks vs the previous node.
That has almost never been the case , in fact i cant think of one, 150,130,90,65,45,32,22,14... nope, coming up empty i must say, about the closest i can think of is SOI to bulk but that wasn't apples to apple either.
 

realibrad

Lifer
Oct 18, 2013
12,337
898
126
That has almost never been the case , in fact i cant think of one, 150,130,90,65,45,32,22,14... nope, coming up empty i must say, about the closest i can think of is SOI to bulk but that wasn't apples to apple either.

Were you not around for the launch of Conroe? Intel has been a position for a while, where they do not launch things until their node is refined. This time around, they are under pressure as well as falling to refine their 10nm products and have released chips with very low frequencies.

You saw this happen when Intel was competing with AMD and losing at the time of Pentium. Intel jumped to 65nm and with that lost clock speed. As that node matured, you saw much higher clocks. After that, they could wait to release their next node when it was more matured. But, look at other fabs beyond Intel and you will see what I'm talking about.

Also, did you watch the video I linked? Don't just take my word for it.
 

itsmydamnation

Platinum Member
Feb 6, 2011
2,864
3,418
136
Were you not around for the launch of Conroe? Intel has been a position for a while, where they do not launch things until their node is refined. This time around, they are under pressure as well as falling to refine their 10nm products and have released chips with very low frequencies.
ROFLcopter, false equivalence.

So what clock did yonah and merom max out at vs conroe.
what clock did prescot max out at vs cedar mill ( you have to look at OC as cedar mill was just sold as celerons) .

Sounds like i've been around alot longer then you sonny boy.......


edit: man my memory is failing, its Dothan that was the 90nm part not yonah.....

edit2 : because i was bored , https://www.overclockers.com/forums/showthread.php/385836-I-have-decided-to-go-Dothan 2.6ghz was about the max for a 90nm dothan, well down on conroe.......
 
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DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
21,805
11,161
136
the clocks should be final but could be a lowerish TDP.

If that is in fact a QS then I'm thinking that's for a low-TDP product. There's no indication of why AMD would be forced to reduce clockspeeds that low on products with TDPs similar to EPYC. A 7nm version of EPYC 7601, for example, would be around 90-105W TDP. TSMC has already demonstrated that their process can hit clocks that high without difficulty, and the Matisse sample Su showed off earlier in the year was easily clocking over 3.2 GHz without sucking up too much power, either.

Also, I wanted to revise one of my earlier statements about AMD's cadence. I erred in assuming that Intel could launch 7nm desktop/server CPUs in 2021, but it looks like the only 7nm product they plan to launch that year will be enterprise Xe. If AMD actually delays Zen4 until 2022 then it may not be all that catastrophic.
 
Reactions: lightmanek

TheGiant

Senior member
Jun 12, 2017
748
353
106
If that is in fact a QS then I'm thinking that's for a low-TDP product. There's no indication of why AMD would be forced to reduce clockspeeds that low on products with TDPs similar to EPYC. A 7nm version of EPYC 7601, for example, would be around 90-105W TDP. TSMC has already demonstrated that their process can hit clocks that high without difficulty, and the Matisse sample Su showed off earlier in the year was easily clocking over 3.2 GHz without sucking up too much power, either.

Also, I wanted to revise one of my earlier statements about AMD's cadence. I erred in assuming that Intel could launch 7nm desktop/server CPUs in 2021, but it looks like the only 7nm product they plan to launch that year will be enterprise Xe. If AMD actually delays Zen4 until 2022 then it may not be all that catastrophic.
competition does wonders...I think we will see Intel 7nm product in 2021, I predict some big bang conroe jump
what worries me about ryzen 3k is now the stupid fan on x570....

i will never buy a board with fan until I absolutely must

moar benchmarks please...something relevant should be out its 19.5. and AMD told us mid year...!
 

krumme

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2009
5,956
1,595
136
Long term we may see higher clocks, but, at the launch of a new node we often see lower clocks vs the previous node. Further, here is Forrest Norrod talking about clock stagnation and or possible regression.


Now, what he is saying is that there is Less Frequency gains per node, but, you also have to look at history. When Intel jumped nodes, they often had chips that started out at lower frequencies. As the node matures, they are able to clock higher. Also consider that the metals and materials are changing.


Here he talks about "... means that as we continually shrink our processes now we don't get any more frequency, and really with this next node, without doing extraordinary things we get less frequency..."

So, maybe long term we get higher clocks, but, its also very possible that we launch with lower clocks given more cores, higher heat density, and node constraints.
What is important here:
Forrest is showing a Rome 1p outperforming the highest performing 2p from Intel!
Try to grasp that.
That's what we get.
Is that possible with a 1.6GHz base. Hardly No. But if, who cares.
Not only frequency is stagnating so is density for much ip. But in this case we get near double the fpu perf so it seems this generational leap is more inline in what we saw 6 years ago. It's not going to continue. Sure. But this time we get some serious brutal fpu grunt.

Someone brings some rumours from the "internet" and you guys try to stir up some drama. Be it either frequency or launch date. Its imo looking the wrong way. As io is now consistent across all 64c imo for servers latency will be far more predictable and therefore a much better product. But we have to see if desktop is to handicapped because of it vs the advantages of cost and throughput you get by the separated solution.
 

B-Riz

Golden Member
Feb 15, 2011
1,530
676
136
Gnyueh why deleted so soon? i think there's nothing need to be hide.

View attachment 6460

If the core count is true (which I think it is, beat the Intel response of 10 cores), the big decision for us day one purchasers will be what is available. If they are going to do a 65w 12 core that can OC, ala the R7 1700 vs R7 1800x, but not out until after the X part, do we wait for the cheap OC goodness???
 

RTX2080

Senior member
Jul 2, 2018
322
511
136
Where is this from?
https://weibo.com/1502169164/HuP0vC...weibo.com&display=0&retcode=6102&type=comment
from a user of weibo who is very likely a tester of AMD platform. user name is at right corner of the photo
they were discussing L3 is very large(4m per core?), also speculated that large L3 is to minimal the impact of DRAM latency, but I dont think it is true because larger L3 size makes no sense among reducing latency though.

That looks fake.

AMD will bring the heat with 16 cores, I believe in them!

It's just a photo. who knows. take it with a truck load of salt
 
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Olikan

Platinum Member
Sep 23, 2011
2,023
275
126
Interesting...
Zen L1i cache is 64kb per core = 768kb total

At zen2 reveal, they did mention a new L1i cache
 

Gnyueh

Junior Member
Feb 10, 2019
19
5
51
https://weibo.com/1502169164/HuP0vC...weibo.com&display=0&retcode=6102&type=comment
from a user of weibo who is very likely a tester of AMD platform. user name is at right corner of the photo
they were discussing L3 is very large(4m per core?), also speculated that large L3 is to minimal the impact of DRAM latency, but I dont think it is true because larger L3 size makes no sense among reducing latency though.



It's just a photo. who knows. take it with a truck load of salt
(FubukiZwei is my weibo account)
but larger cache can decrease cache miss so the cpu core will stop to access something in dram less, which will be probably ever slower than zen
 

Gnyueh

Junior Member
Feb 10, 2019
19
5
51
Interesting...
Zen L1i cache is 64kb per core = 768kb total

At zen2 reveal, they did mention a new L1i cache


i cannot really find a video about new i cache design, could you please share it?
That looks fake.

AMD will bring the heat with 16 cores, I believe in them!

probably not now
because showing off all your power at once even before your enemy reacts is not a wise choice
 
Reactions: Abwx

Olikan

Platinum Member
Sep 23, 2011
2,023
275
126

jpiniero

Lifer
Oct 1, 2010
14,839
5,456
136
If that is in fact a QS then I'm thinking that's for a low-TDP product. There's no indication of why AMD would be forced to reduce clockspeeds that low on products with TDPs similar to EPYC. A 7nm version of EPYC 7601, for example, would be around 90-105W TDP.

Could also be a lower end product, maybe a replacement for the 7281 (16 cores, 2.1 base/2.7 turbo, $650 "MSRP"). Take 4 of the lowest quality binned chiplets.
 
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