Speculation: Ryzen 3000 series

[LightningZ71]

I would have loved for them to use PLX Chips to break out and allow for higher I/O. Then I realized it wont happen because : Cost/Every company has discriminators between their product lines. AM4 will not be getting the I/O of threadripper, threadripper will not be getting the I/O of EPYC. That's the discriminator for AMD. Also, as it has been detailed, you do get break out from the chipset on AM4 from PCIE 4.0 to more broad based PCIE 3.0/etc. So, they gave you half of what you wanted.

-its not what I want, it's what they CAN do. There are a lot of people out there that also want AM4 ATX server type boards with OOBM on them and there are just barely a couple of hard to find products out there.

Sure, but if you break it down or out it adds cost. Threadripper gives 8/16/8/16 + 3 dedicated nvme. If you need more I/O buy one. If you need more than that get EPYC which into the server market uses PLX switches.


I have 5 cards in mine (using the PCie 2.0 slot too) + 3 nvme drives. I beg to differ.
Again, if you have a need the platform, you have a need. If you don't, I don't think a person will understand or can comment on threadripper.


I was excited about PCIE 4.0 like you because of expanded I/O breakouts. In its current form, I'm not sold on it. NVME on PCIE 4.0 is not a selling point for me but will be for some.

--and, like I said, there ARE SOME niche users out there for whom such a product would be useful. However, would your PCIe I/O needs be that greatly affected by running the four cards at 8x PCIe 3.0 behind a PLX chip that is only 100% bandwidth subscribed? How about your memory bandwidth needs? Unless you have more than 64 GB of RAM, is dual channel DDR4-4000 going to hold you back much from the quad channel RAM that you currently use that likely tops out at 3200 or less?

Look at the pic. PCIE Gen4 slots board.. That's for Rome. Your statement is incorrect. Threadripper will get similar but cut down treatment.

---I'm looking at that board. Unless there are some small repeater chips on there that I'm not seeing (which might be the row next to the first slot), it violates the trace distance rules for PCIe 4.0. there is no need for plx chips due to all the lanes that EPYC provides, just repeaters.

See above. Where's the PLX switch?
--It's EPYC, no place needed, just repeaters for distance needs.


Why do people keep trying to re-write facts towards their own opinion? The discriminator is I/O and memory bandwidth. Something that has already been detailed.

This is literally the same amount of I/O but with Gen4. This doesn't suit my needs. I will literally buy a Threadripper over this if the price isn't right. I literally need two Ryzen systems tied together with high speed enterprise nics to even come close to one threadripper. The same holds true above. There aren't even any PCIE 4.0 mainstream products.

X570 :

Isn't that different from :

I hit the same I/O restrictions. What are people talking about? That 3rd PCIE slot btw will likely only be usable if you don't use other I/O. You're getting the same package but with PCIE 4.0 labels and higher core count. For some this will be a godsend. For me, it's somewhat of the same package

--again, for YOUR PARTICULAR use case.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Well, I think that in the same RAM "era" meaning now DDR4, you can never have too much. Look for sales. Now when DDR5 starts on the horizon, you have to stop.

That’s typically what I do, go half full, then the other half gets done when whatever new memory standard takes over and the old memory is on sale.
Crazy to think two years from now I could have a machine with 64GB.

 

[killster1]

Of course its a workstation, why else would I buy an $1800 CPU with 32 cores/64 threads ? I use all 64 threads, and it sucks ram. I use more than 16 gig every day, and sometimes more than 32.

So because u use a workstation that means everyone else uses 32gb ram? I said non workstation non gamer is fine with 8gb so far. Perhaps if u open 3 games at once or virtual machine. Simple encodes never uses 6gb for me

 

[mattiasnyc]

In the near future, intel is irrelevant. This has been known for some time. They will only achieve relevancy maybe towards the end of 2020/2021.

Really? What's their marketshare? Zero? 5%? 15%?…. Please explain to us all just what "irrelevant" means in terms of marketshare.If that's not a good metric you can compare revenue instead. Or profits. Your call, we'll wait...

Threadripper competes by doublng the PCIE slots and memory channels of Ryzen. Epyc competes by doubling that of Threadripper.

My 1950x has more I/O than the 3rd gen ryzen (double in fact) that is being announced in a couple of days. That will never change. It's a platform discriminator. Every company has one. Even though AMD is innovating and doubling core count like mad women/men, the i/o is the discriminator. AMD has drawn their line in the sand. You will get higher core counts but not I/O.

Yes, we know all of that.

> then it's a tough choice to buy into x399

It's not. Never has been.
> then it's a tough choice to buy into x399 if there's no prospect of a 32core better performing Zen2 TR
Those who need the I/O buy threadripper. What's so hard to understand about this?

Clearly you're not paying attention.

There are plenty of workstation users that buy Intel HEDT systems over AMD, and Nvidia over AMD. That's just the way it is. You might prefer AMD and choose it any day of the week - as would I for various reasons - but that doesn't change that people are still buying Intel CPUs for professional workstation setups.

What's so hard to understand about this? (to quote someone you know)

 

[amd6502]

That’s typically what I do, go half full, then the other half gets done when whatever new memory standard takes over and the old memory is on sale.
Crazy to think two years from now I could have a machine with 64GB.

Yes, it's always nice to have a free slot or two to upgrade later. I think 16GB should probably be enough for many (if not most) 12c/24t users.

It really depends wildly though. I think linux does not have memory (RAM) compression like windows 10 does. (Though it does have an option to compress swap space using zram). Effective RAM compression alone would make 16gb enough for many 12c/24t and some 16c/32t users. So it's going to vary a lot from OS and the applications used. Those using a lot of extra cores just for Boinc tasks I think may also be fine with 16gb. Many of those distributed computing tasks are very efficient with their RAM use (which makes sense as large memory usage will drive potential volunteers away).I think gcc is also pretty efficient; it would be interesting if someone would give a comparison of linux compile times with a 24t or 32t processor, comparing dual channel 16gb versus dual channel 32gb. With all the drive read-write latencies, one might actually do something like make -j40 or even higher on a 32t machine.

 

[OTG]

So because u use a workstation that means everyone else uses 32gb ram? I said non workstation non gamer is fine with 8gb so far. Perhaps if u open 3 games at once or virtual machine. Simple encodes never use it for me

The comment he replied to asked "besides using VM's and certain games what uses more than 8gb?"
He gave you an answer based on his usage.
That's it.

For me, the answer is "Firefox", because I keep a ton of tabs open basically all the time. 8 gigs is totally inadequate, 12 gets maxed out on occasion, but 16 gb lets me do my internet thing and not worry about starting up a game.
If I felt like micromanaging my firefox use I could get by with less, but I don't.

 

[thigobr]

I use Gentoo and right now I have a 1700 with 16GB of RAM and that's not enough to compile big projects from source (e.g. Firefox and many others). I don't have a swap partition and I have been getting OOM when using 16 threads (-j16). Firefox compiles just fine with 8 threads though. I will get 2x16GB b-die soon

 

[DrMrLordX]

Safe to say with 12core or 16core Zen 2. 32GB of ram should be the baseline for new builds?

Depends on your needs. My system will be getting 2x8GB DDR4-4400 because I want more speed, not more capacity. 16GB sticks still aren't as good as 8GB sticks for speed-obsessed end-users. I have high-bin b-die, which is about the best that 10x DDR4 can offer. 10y RAM should be coming soon in a small wave before the RAM manufacturers move over to DDR5. Maybe we will get single-sided, single-rank 16GB DIMMs that will play nicer with memory controllers. Then it's open season on 32GB.

 

[beginner99]

A 24C is unlikely because it require 4 chiplets, unless yields are such that they have a massive inventory of dies with only 6/7C being functional.

In Zen they said each ccx needs to have the same amount of active cores so if 1 core is borked it only worked as a 6-core. I assume the same for zen2 chiplets and hence 24-core TR version makes sense as does a 6-core matisse.

Not related to the quote:

TR3 would still make sense as now there wouldn't be a compromise in terms of gaming (or other latency affected apps) you get more cores without a downside. A 24-core TR sounds cool.would easily last 1 decade...

 

[Zucker2k]

Everyone knows the socket is the same. I actually own one.

If there's no wiring to 1/2 the CPU's feature on EPYC then what's the point along w/ the lower clocks EPYC runs at because of those features? The new Threadripper will be based on the new design w/ an I/O die. It wont be a literal EPYC processor from previous gen. That was the point of my comment. Such an dea is just uninformed and not thought through. People should think before they post not throw random thoughts out.

You need to cool it a bit, UB4TY Zerm.

 

[Zucker2k]

I'm sorry but zero of your reasons make any sense.

Good, then they're set. If they want more CPU only performance, they can downgrade to AM4 and sell me their existing system for cheap.. and when I say cheap I mean $400 max for their 2950x and $200 for their motherboard Max. Surprise, they end up literally downgrading with no money left in their pocket. I own a 1950x setup. I'm not going to downgrade. I might upgrade my Ryzen nodes.

Gives no signal. I literally don't care what is offered in another market segment. I bought a threadripper setup because I needed every aspect of it. I bought it when it first came out. I paid $1,000 for a 1950x. I could literally care less about what comes out after. I can buy the same process for half as much now.. All that does is make me excited about buying another. My system is not obsolete. It wont be obsoleted on Monday. I am happy that AMD is pushing the envelope so hard. They're not going to wait. They're innovating FAST. That excites me.

Huh? AMD is slated to push into 128 cores into the coming years..
Innovate or die. If you fire all of your bullets and there is no more to do then guess what? A consumer goes to the store and buys the best that you have to offer over and over. Do you buy toilet paper declaring charmin fired all their bullets? If you have a need and you want the best, you got to the store and buy it over and over and over again.

I feel a lot of people are unaware how to interpret break neck innovation.. probably because Intel has abused them for so long. You innovate in tech or you die. Period. End of story. There is no logic behind waiting because your competitor wont. Intel is learning the hard way. That reminds me to put all of my remaining intel rigs up on ebay this weekend. Time to get rid of these insecure trash heaps. Intel wont be getting money from me until they provide a better value and get their act together. They're literally not on the radar. Intel did what you suggested and abused their customers and they're now paying a heavy price. AMD has kicked them in the throat and popped out the other end and now they're going to pile drive them in every market segment. So much for waiting... Think a little bit more about what you're saying.

How do you even get away with stuff like this? Reported.

 

[exquisitechar]

https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/a...shape-RealityCapture-1461/#comment-4474022948
Hmm...

 

[PotatoWithEarsOnSide]

Not sure there's anything that needed reporting in those posts. Perhaps only the reply, calling out a user as being someone else instead of rebutting the comments made.
When did the internet become this place where we all had to be shielded from opinions that werent consistent with our own?

 

[Zucker2k]

Not sure there's anything that needed reporting in those posts. Perhaps only the reply, calling out a user as being someone else instead of rebutting the comments made.
When did the internet become this place where we all had to be shielded from opinions that werent consistent with our own?

So you agree with his statements about Intel products being "hot garbage" and "trash heaps."? That doesn't need addressing? Just ask the mods to get rid of the report button if it serves no purpose. If it's okay too, then let's be consistent.

 

[B-Riz]

So you agree with his statements about Intel products being "hot garbage" and "trash heaps."? That doesn't need addressing? Just ask the mods to get rid of the report button if it serves no purpose. If it's okay too, then let's be consistent.

My 4790k is kinda hot garbage, gotta pop the top and add some new paste. 8700k is kinda hot garbage that needs its top popped too. After that, they are cool garbage, they stop being insecure garbage after I disable HT. After that, they are regular garbage, but more expensive garbage than the 2700x awesome value garbage.

All my computers are thrown together trash heaps though!

 

[TheGiant]

I'm sorry but zero of your reasons make any sense.

Good, then they're set. If they want more CPU only performance, they can downgrade to AM4 and sell me their existing system for cheap.. and when I say cheap I mean $400 max for their 2950x and $200 for their motherboard Max. Surprise, they end up literally downgrading with no money left in their pocket. I own a 1950x setup. I'm not going to downgrade. I might upgrade my Ryzen nodes.

Gives no signal. I literally don't care what is offered in another market segment. I bought a threadripper setup because I needed every aspect of it. I bought it when it first came out. I paid $1,000 for a 1950x. I could literally care less about what comes out after. I can buy the same process for half as much now.. All that does is make me excited about buying another. My system is not obsolete. It wont be obsoleted on Monday. I am happy that AMD is pushing the envelope so hard. They're not going to wait. They're innovating FAST. That excites me.

Huh? AMD is slated to push into 128 cores into the coming years..
Innovate or die. If you fire all of your bullets and there is no more to do then guess what? A consumer goes to the store and buys the best that you have to offer over and over. Do you buy toilet paper declaring charmin fired all their bullets? If you have a need and you want the best, you got to the store and buy it over and over and over again.

I feel a lot of people are unaware how to interpret break neck innovation.. probably because Intel has abused them for so long. You innovate in tech or you die. Period. End of story. There is no logic behind waiting because your competitor wont. Intel is learning the hard way. That reminds me to put all of my remaining intel rigs up on ebay this weekend. Time to get rid of these insecure trash heaps. Intel wont be getting money from me until they provide a better value and get their act together. They're literally not on the radar. Intel did what you suggested and abused their customers and they're now paying a heavy price. AMD has kicked them in the throat and popped out the other end and now they're going to pile drive them in every market segment. So much for waiting... Think a little bit more about what you're saying.

you have some good product in this post, but it is devaluated by your bias

 

[B-Riz]

ok sir, you won the internet
how is that you remind me of a user that was here recently....
from technical point of view, you are right, but not from business

anyway, someone got any new leaks of ryzen 3K

In general AMD is in the business to sell Zen / Zen+ / Zen2 cores right now.

And how do you do that? Target the DIY market, target us.

I bought a 1700, 2700x, 2200g, 1900x from AMD in the past 2 years.

From Intel, one 8700k that will prolly get sold for a cheap-sih price to someone on the forums in the next two months.

Enterprise is a different beast, that is all about qualification on software and precision and perf per watt. Remember, computers are fancy calculators, make a cooler running cheaper calculator with the same or better perf than the other guy and you win.

Watch the below and do some some research into the Zen launch, and how they wanted to impress and sell to the enthusiasts and power users, who are more powerful than any marketing department.

(Mark, sorry not CC, will try the Youtube auto CC function and re-upload) (sorry, youtube-dl / python is acting wonky, will continue efforts)

 

[Thunder 57]

Not sure there's anything that needed reporting in those posts. Perhaps only the reply, calling out a user as being someone else instead of rebutting the comments made.
When did the internet become this place where we all had to be shielded from opinions that werent consistent with our own?

Come on now, it's 2019. If you're not offended by something, you're not doing it right.

 

[DrMrLordX]

So you agree with his statements about Intel products being "hot garbage" and "trash heaps."? That doesn't need addressing? Just ask the mods to get rid of the report button if it serves no purpose. If it's okay too, then let's be consistent.

Actually, he called them insecure, which is kind of true thanks to the seemingly-endless stream of sidechannel attacks that keep coming from security researchers. If he starts calling other users "hot garbage" then there is a problem.

 

[PotatoWithEarsOnSide]

So you agree with his statements about Intel products being "hot garbage" and "trash heaps."? That doesn't need addressing? Just ask the mods to get rid of the report button if it serves no purpose. If it's okay too, then let's be consistent.

Not finding issue with is not the same as agreeing with. He posted an opinion, no more.

 

[zinfamous]

Come on now, it's 2019. If you're not offended by something, you're not doing it right.

In fact, I am offended that you took the time to make a post that isn't all that offensive.

reported

 

[Markfw]

How do you even get away with stuff like this? Reported.

Disagreeing with someone or expressing an opinion is not against the rules. Only if you are abusive.

 

[Zucker2k]

Actually, he called them insecure, which is kind of true thanks to the seemingly-endless stream of sidechannel attacks that keep coming from security researchers. If he starts calling other users "hot garbage" then there is a problem.

Are we talking about someone 'who joined yesterday' and has already posted a lot of controversial stuff, including antagonizing and trashing other people's opinion? Sure. Let's ignore all the other not so nice things he said and concentrate on one theoretical weakness of the Intel platform. Unless, of course, you can show me a real world example of such a weakness being exploited.

Not finding issue with is not the same as agreeing with. He posted an opinion, no more.

Other people also posted opinions and the results were different.

Look, I don't even generally disagree with the spirit of your statement. I'm all for ALL MEMBERS being free to express their true feelings or opinions on hardware. Like I said earlier, let the reaction be same when the shoe is on the other foot. Consistency.

 

[Zucker2k]

Disagreeing with someone or expressing an opinion is not against the rules. Only if you are abusive.

Of course, but you have insisted there's a right way and a wrong way to do it.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

In fact, I am offended that you took the time to make a post that isn't all that offensive.

reported

I'm reporting you for not being offended