Speculation: Ryzen 3000 series

[inf64]

I thought we were getting benchmarks on June 10 ? Retail sales on July 7th

I think AMD is going for full disclosure on E3 event. We'll have to wait and see. Hopefully they don't go full intel mode and start milking us with only 12 cores. I heard that there ARE high clocked variants of all SKUs and AMD planned to launch these but since they are so much ahead now on perf./watt/dollar they just went for "slower" roadmap if you can call it like that - which is sureal we've come to this point that they can actually sandbag as they are so far ahead.

 

[jpiniero]

Hopefully they don't go full intel mode and start milking us with only 12 cores.

What would "make sense" is if they wait until supplies of 2nd Gen dies start to run out. AMD has to continue to produce 1st Gen because of Epyc but they can certainly end production of 2nd Gen.

 

[OTG]

Hopefully they don't go full intel mode and start milking us with only 12 cores.

I don't think they will, even if core counts stop going up every year.
Zen2 this year, Zen3 next year, Zen4 the year after. They just don't have time to take advantage in that way, Intel's gonna be back in a few years; no way in hell AMD can get enough marketshare before then to start pulling that kind of shenanigans.

 

[Mockingbird]

The lack of any information on R3 parts is interesting. Any thoughts on whether those only come out later or if they're saving that information for another event?

The IPC also seems a bit better than what I was expecting as well. I was assuming that they'd probably be able to catch up to Intel, but in a few areas it clearly seems as though they've passed them. I'm not sure that if anyone here were told that five years ago that they'd be able to keep a straight face.

Well, there are the 4C/4T Ryzen 3 3200G and 4C/8T Ryzen 5 3400G (both are based on Zen+) and that's about it.

 

[jamescox]

The lack of any information on R3 parts is interesting. Any thoughts on whether those only come out later or if they're saving that information for another event?

The IPC also seems a bit better than what I was expecting as well. I was assuming that they'd probably be able to catch up to Intel, but in a few areas it clearly seems as though they've passed them. I'm not sure that if anyone here were told that five years ago that they'd be able to keep a straight face.

The 2 or 3 chiplet solution is probably too expensive for $99 to <$200 parts. The Ryzen 3 series parts are probably going to be 4 core, 12 nm, IGP parts and you will need at least Ryzen 5 series to get the 7 nm chiplet parts.

 

[Mockingbird]

Link please

Gigabyte X570 AORUS XTREME

no fan, passive cooled

https://www.aorus.com/X570-AORUS-XTREME-rev-10

 

[Hans Gruber]

I just want to point out the 9900K was released in October 2018. AMD really needs those 8 core parts to significantly outperform the 9900K in both price and performance. 9 months behind Intel is a long time in the computer age. Equaling the 9900K is not enough. That is unless AMD starts a price war. Then it really doesn't matter.

 

[Mockingbird]

So looks like the Aorus Extreme will be the only X570 MB without active chipset cooling. Good job Gigabyte, that's a big plus.

I hope you have a fat wallet because that motherboard supposedly costs $599

 

[Mockingbird]

The high-end boards are gonna be expensive aren't they?

$599 expensive

 

[fleshconsumed]

IMO out of the whole bunch ASUS Pro WS X570-ACE looks the best - no RGB, professional, good layout, looks like no fan either. Just wish it had 6 sata ports instead of 4.

 

[jamescox]

At this point, do we know how the 8 core parts are even configured? The high demand chiplet is the fully functional 8-core, so I would expect a price premium for any device using fully functional die. The best for gaming may be this single chiplet, 8-core part.

There is no memory clock on the cpu chiplets, so I would expect that the CCX to CCX communication is at core clock on each chiplet. The chip to chip communication is probably very low latency due to the extremely high IF clock and possibly higher IF switch speed; it may be decoupled from memory clock. There will still be a penalty for going off die, but this only shows up in some multi-threaded applications.

They could still make an 8 core with 2x 4-core chiplets, but that would be confusing for the consumer market. An 8-core with 2 active cores per CCX would be interesting (64 MB L3), but it could have different performance characteristics compared to other 8-core parts, so it would also be confusing to consumers.

The 12-core pretty much has to be 3-cores per CCX * 4 CCX. The penalty for exceeding one CCX will not be as high as on Zen 1. With Zen 1, CCX to CCX communication has to go through a large switch at memory clock. That isn’t the case for Zen 2; there is no reason to have a clock boundary, so it is probably at core clock on a single chiplet. We don’t know how high the penalty is for communication to the other chiplet in the 12-core part. You have 6-core / 12-thread on a single die though, so it may not be much of a limitation. It alsodepends on how good the windows scheduled is at keeping things local.

TL;DR
The 8-core single cpu chiplet is probably going to be the best gaming processor. We won’t know until we get some benchmarks. I wouldn’t rush out and preorder a 12-core without some benchmarks first.

 

[Mockingbird]

I just want to point out the 9900K was released in October 2018. AMD really needs those 8 core parts to significantly outperform the 9900K in both price and performance. 9 months behind Intel is a long time in the computer age. Equaling the 9900K is not enough. That is unless AMD starts a price war. Then it really doesn't matter.

Ryzen 7 3800X is ~$100 less.

If you are willing to settle for a little less performance, there is also Ryzen 7 3700X for ~$170 less.

 

[Markfw]

Ryzen 7 2800X is ~$100 less.

If you are willing to settle for a little less performance, there is also Ryzen 7 2700X for ~$170 less.

What 2800x ? I don't see that anywhere for sale.

 

[Indus]

What 2800x ? I don't see that anywhere for sale.

Think he means the 3800x (I'm guessing but it makes sense since it's $399 vs the $499 of the 9900k and he said $100 less)

 

[Markfw]

Think he means the 3800x (I'm guessing but it makes sense since it's $399 vs the $499 of the 9900k and he said $100 less)

Except he says a little less performance. Now we don't know until reviews come out, but based only on what we know the 3800x will beat the 9900k at $100 less.

 

[Indus]

Except he says a little less performance. Now we don't know until reviews come out, but based only on what we know the 3800x will beat the 9900k at $100 less.

Yep I sure want it too. Then I have to decide.. should I get a 6 core or an 8 core CPU to replace my 1st gen ryzen.

Thankfully with such awful 4k performance from intel quad cores.. my 1st gen ryzen will happily go into my home theater pc and the intel will be retired after 8 or so years.

 

[Mockingbird]

What 2800x ? I don't see that anywhere for sale.

Typo fixed

 

[swilli89]

I just want to point out the 9900K was released in October 2018. AMD really needs those 8 core parts to significantly outperform the 9900K in both price and performance. 9 months behind Intel is a long time in the computer age. Equaling the 9900K is not enough. That is unless AMD starts a price war. Then it really doesn't matter.

I see where your head is at but let me point out the error in this thinking, something we can call "age of incumbant fallacy".

Say you're 18, and you just graduated high school. Mom and Dad are gifting you money to build a new computer. You've got $1200 to part out a new PC. You see a 9900k and a 3800x as options. Both basically perform the same. 3800X is cheaper by $100 and consumes less energy, and comes with a capable air cooler.

Tell me - why would this kid care at all if the 9900k came out in October 2018 or October 2014 for that matter? Current options are simply that, current options. In fact I'd argue people prefer new and shiny things just for the sake of being new. The 9900k's age could possibly work against it.

This fallacy bleeds over into people saying "everyone that would have upgraded in the last 2 years already has", as a certain extremely pro-Intel guy has said in this thread. So many things wrong with that thought.

People get new higher paying jobs, people get raises/promotions at their job, people's kids come of age and they pass down old rigs. People build rigs for their spouses, some people simply like to upgrade yearly when they have the disposable income. Others fry their components when aggressively overclocking or worse, accidentally damaging them in other ways. Radiators rarely leak but it has happened. Static electricity fries compliments in the hands of the inexperienced.

There is a constant demand for new builds and current options simply get checked for price and performance.

Personally I can't get over the fact that Intel criminally bribed OEMs with hundreds of millions of dollars to use the vastly superior Athlon64 chips - they forever changed history. AMD was robbed of massive amounts of revenue that would have been hard to improve subsequent generations and Intels desperate bid to retain dominance ended up working effectively, they threw a billion in cash to AMD years later once they had finally caught up but by then it was too late - AMD had been forcefully blocked from competing on fair terms and thus they fell behind.

Now the little company that could has finally risen back and I apologize for the hyperbole but, it's freaking glorious. They've never knowingly cheated the entire market for their wins and they've made an epic comeback akin to (sorry for the sports analogy) Tiger Woods epic return to pro golf we saw a few weeks ago. It's amazing to finally have AMD back.

 

[Hans Gruber]

I see where your head is at but let me point out the error in this thinking, something we can call "age of incumbant fallacy".

Say you're 18, and you just graduated high school. Mom and dad are gifting you money to build a new computer. You've got $1200 gifted you. You see a 9900k and a 3800x as options. Both basically perform the same.

Tell me - why would this kid care at all if the 9900k came out in October 2018 or October 2014 for that matter? Current options are simply that, current options. In fact I'd argue people prefer New and shiny things just for the sake of being new.

This fallacy bleeds into people saying "everyone that would have upgraded in the last 2 years already has".

Again, people get raises at their job, people's kids come of age and they pass down old rigs. People build rigs for their spouses, some people simply like to upgrade yearly when they have the disposable income. Others fry their components when aggressively over locking or worse, accidentally damaging them in other ways. Radiators rarely leak but it has happened. Static electricity fries compliments in the hands of the inexperienced.

There is a constant demand for new builds and current options simply get checked for price and performance.

Personally I can't get over the fact that Intel criminally bribed OEMs with hundreds of millions of dollars to use the vastly superior Athlon64 chips - they forever changed history. AMD was robbed of massive amounts of revenue that would have been hard to improve subsequent generations and Intels desperate bid to retain dominance ended up working effectively, they threw a billion in cash to AMD years later once they had finally caught up but by then it was too late - AMD had been forcefully blocked from competing on fair terms and thus they fell behind.

Now the little company that could has finally risen back and I apologize for the hyperbole but, it's freaking glorious. They've never knowingly cheated the entire market for their wins and they've made an epic comeback akin to (sorry for the sports analogy) Tiger Woods epic return to pro golf we saw a few weeks ago. It's amazing to finally have AMD back.

My next rig is going to be Zen 2 later this year.

 

[Mockingbird]

IMO out of the whole bunch ASUS Pro WS X570-ACE looks the best - no RGB, professional, good layout, looks like no fan either. Just wish it had 6 sata ports instead of 4.

You can see a fan if you look closely

 

[alcoholbob]

I see where your head is at but let me point out the error in this thinking, something we can call "age of incumbant fallacy".

Say you're 18, and you just graduated high school. Mom and Dad are gifting you money to build a new computer. You've got $1200 to part out a new PC. You see a 9900k and a 3800x as options. Both basically perform the same. 3800X is cheaper by $100 and consumes less energy, and comes with a capable air cooler.

Tell me - why would this kid care at all if the 9900k came out in October 2018 or October 2014 for that matter? Current options are simply that, current options. In fact I'd argue people prefer new and shiny things just for the sake of being new. The 9900k's age could possibly work against it.

This fallacy bleeds over into people saying "everyone that would have upgraded in the last 2 years already has", as a certain extremely pro-Intel guy has said in this thread. So many things wrong with that thought.

People get new higher paying jobs, people get raises/promotions at their job, people's kids come of age and they pass down old rigs. People build rigs for their spouses, some people simply like to upgrade yearly when they have the disposable income. Others fry their components when aggressively overclocking or worse, accidentally damaging them in other ways. Radiators rarely leak but it has happened. Static electricity fries compliments in the hands of the inexperienced.

There is a constant demand for new builds and current options simply get checked for price and performance.

Personally I can't get over the fact that Intel criminally bribed OEMs with hundreds of millions of dollars to use the vastly superior Athlon64 chips - they forever changed history. AMD was robbed of massive amounts of revenue that would have been hard to improve subsequent generations and Intels desperate bid to retain dominance ended up working effectively, they threw a billion in cash to AMD years later once they had finally caught up but by then it was too late - AMD had been forcefully blocked from competing on fair terms and thus they fell behind.

Now the little company that could has finally risen back and I apologize for the hyperbole but, it's freaking glorious. They've never knowingly cheated the entire market for their wins and they've made an epic comeback akin to (sorry for the sports analogy) Tiger Woods epic return to pro golf we saw a few weeks ago. It's amazing to finally have AMD back.

Even if Intel hadn't done that though, it's debatable how well AMD had done. Most of the postmortem analysis and stories we've heard from ex-AMD'ers was that period was horribly mismanaged by AMD, that they spent little to nothing on R&D and had no real long-term plans after Jim Keller left the first time. It took Lisa Su's hiring and the return of Jim Keller to right the ship.

 

[JDG1980]

IMO out of the whole bunch ASUS Pro WS X570-ACE looks the best - no RGB, professional, good layout, looks like no fan either. Just wish it had 6 sata ports instead of 4.

Unfortunately, if you look at the head-on image in the gallery, it appears that there is a fan lurking behind the heatsink next to the PCIe slots.

Hopefully someone (Thermalright?) will release a passive sink suitable for retrofitting on X570 boards.

 

[Mockingbird]

Unfortunately, if you look at the head-on image in the gallery, it appears that there is a fan lurking behind the heatsink next to the PCIe slots.

Hopefully someone (Thermalright?) will release a passive sink suitable for retrofitting on X570 boards.

Gigabyte X570 AORUS XTREME is the only one without a fan

 

[DrMrLordX]

Sorry you can't read

Sorry, hard to read when the optic nerves are rotting out. Need cybernetic replacements . . .

I don't get the big problem with a chipset fan. I'd rather not have one sure, but they existed before.

I think the issue is when they break. A simple heatsink would work about as well, and wouldn't be so expensive as to cost $599. But hey gotta have that board armor look, so put the fan behind a grill instead, yay!

Hell my case has enough airflow on its own that I could just pull the fan and the board armor and let er go.

The 3800X having a 105 watt TDP will allow XFR to boost higher, as cooling and voltage permit. I'm sure that a lot more will be known once these are in reviewers hands.

If history is any indicator, some boards may disable XFR altogether for the 3700x (see x470 Taichi + R7 2700). 3800X will probably have the most aggressive boost map of all release Matisse products.

I just want to point out the 9900K was released in October 2018. AMD really needs those 8 core parts to significantly outperform the 9900K in both price and performance. 9 months behind Intel is a long time in the computer age. Equaling the 9900K is not enough. That is unless AMD starts a price war. Then it really doesn't matter.

That's great and all, but you have to remember that Intel has already sold the 9900k as an effective 160-165W CPU. We already have indicators that the R7 3800x will beat it @ stock. Turn on XFR and let the 3800x get into the 160W territory and see what happens. Or just OC a 3700x to the same power level.

When the 9900KS comes out, it'll be at least a 210W chip. Same basic comparison applies.

 

[beginner99]

Gigabyte X570 AORUS XTREME is the only one without a fan

But given it's price I can buy a cheaper one with fan and in case fan breaks, replace the whole mobo couple years later and still pay less. Never had a chipset fan before. Are they failure prone because they are small? I have like 5 case fans all easily >5 years old an jugging on. So is it really that big of a deal?