Speculation: Ryzen 3000 series

[Markfw]

My SR2 motherboard has a chipset fan. It worked for years before I sold it. Is it still working ? not sure, but a forum member got it from me.

 

[itsmydamnation]

fun times:

 

[RTX2080]

https://translate.google.com/transl...ps://www.chiphell.com/thread-2001057-1-1.html



some important information I can decode from this author:

1. 5Ghz single core is realistic, and sounds like all core 4.8Ghz is pretty realistic
2. Cinebench R15, 8 core Zen2 @ 4.5Ghz easily beats 9900K @ 5Ghz
3. OC mechanism is pretty like Zen+, for example OC R5-2600 4.1Ghz sometimes stronger than 4.3Ghz due to heat or other factor......Zen2 has similar characteristic

 

[TheGiant]

thoughts #7

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-x570-chipset-first-gen-ryzen-support,39474.html

as said before, my friend asked me about ability to put new 3k ryzens into his asrock b350pro 4 board...
now I have to say the same as with Intel, buy new board, since its not the top level 300 series board (maybe I am wrong and after all and they update the bios)
so unless you upgraded from ryzen 1k to 2k series, it ends up the same as with Intels everytime new board in the end
not even counting the VRMs etc -like predicted before, 7nm, lower voltage, higher currents, vrms thank you
so they say, I can't just buy a b450/whatever board for 12C 3900X, any tips please? best up to 200 EUR (that higher midrange)

 

[Abwx]

....................

https://www.computerbase.de/2019-05/ryzen-3700x-3800x-3900x/

 

[TheGiant]

....................

https://www.computerbase.de/2019-05/ryzen-3700x-3800x-3900x/

that picture shows only 1/2 of the reality
the other one is real support of the respective MB and real power support
it looks like you will be happy to run 8C r3xxx non oced on current b450 boards

 

[coercitiv]

as said before, my friend asked me about ability to put new 3k ryzens into his asrock b350pro 4 board...
now I have to say the same as with Intel, buy new board, since its not the top level 300 series board (maybe I am wrong and after all and they update the bios)
so unless you upgraded from ryzen 1k to 2k series, it ends up the same as with Intels everytime new board in the end
not even counting the VRMs etc -like predicted before, 7nm, lower voltage, higher currents, vrms thank you
so they say, I can't just buy a b450/whatever board for 12C 3900X, any tips please? best up to 200 EUR (that higher midrange)

that picture shows only 1/2 of the reality
the other one is real support of the respective MB and real power support
it looks like you will be happy to run 8C r3xxx non oced on current b450 boards

Judging by the way you approach this many forum members will be running overclocked Zen 2 chips on B*50/X*70 boards before you do.

Except for A320 boards, AsRock confirmed all their boards will support Ryzen 3000 series:
https://www.asrock.com/news/index.us.asp?iD=4238

 

[TheGiant]

Judging by the way you approach this many forum members will be running overclocked Zen 2 chips on B*50/X*70 boards before you do.

Except for A320 boards, AsRock confirmed all their boards will support Ryzen 3000 series:
https://www.asrock.com/news/index.us.asp?iD=4238

I will be running them too, if they as I said update the bios and it works..

edit: just wanted to clarify, because I can not tell otherwise, this forum looks more on who (intel, amd) than what
AMD never told us that everyboard will work with every their CPU, just the interpretation of many is like (AM4 is excellent, mainly comparing to Intel changing boards every time)

but in the end the result is the same

as enthusiasts (tuning ram, overclocking etc) we have pretty much no option but to change the board unless you bought that nasty 300+ (or whatever) EUR board which got support as prevention of the nerd rage

this forum makes AMD better for enthusiasts than Intel, results are this first time showing AMD as better (perf same, support same, power lower)

 

[coercitiv]

don't quote what suits you...

Do you not stand by what you wrote?

I will be running them too, if they as I said update the bios and it works..

Ofc we have to wait and see how the process works out until July, and more importantly new buyers need to be aware the older model boards must come with updated BIOS from the shelves - I really hope both MB makers and AMD learned their lesson from the Zen+ launch.

However, that doesn't mean anyone who intends to buy an 8-12C Zen2 CPU and overclock it shouldn't thoroughly document their motherboard purchase as VRM stage quality will be very important for those looking to overclock. That Buildzoid video I linked is probably an excellent primer towards an informed purchase with the only caveat he is talking about overclocking on custom loops as target, meaning when he says "this board may run 12 core" he actually means "this board will run 12 core overclocked on air or AIO water".

 

[Atari2600]

it looks like you will be happy to run 8C r3xxx non oced on current b450 boards

What is overclocked and non-overclocked these days anyway?

(1) With turbo? Without turbo?
(2) With XFR? Without XFR?
(3) Manually fixing frequency?

If the boards support (1) and (2), then does it matter about (3)?

Anyone who established a long term platform on an A320 motherboard, expecting to upgrade it two generations later needs their head examined.

It seems that most OEMs are supporting R3000 series on B350/X370. While they obviously won't be fully feature laden (PCIe 4.0), what do people expect?

 

[DrMrLordX]

A lot of X370 and B350 boards have iffy VRMs. Ditto for B450. I think it's pretty safe to say that if your board can handle an R5 2600x, you'll be able to handle the 3600x. Ditto for 2700x -> 3800x. 3700x is an outlier since it has abnormally-high current demand compared to, say, R5 2600x, without requiring too much extra power overall. It's probable that boards that can handle a 2700 can handle a 3700x, but thanks to the low(er) TDP of 65W, there are a few boards that can't really handle a 2700 well that might do okay with the 3700x. I would be hesitant to say, "well it's only a 65W CPU, anyone can use it!" because that would probably be wrong.

Overclocking/XFR is where things get dicey.

Then there's the issue of PCIe4.0 . Some older AM4 boards are getting support for it, but we have yet to see how that will actually work in real-world applications. Will the chipset overheat?

 

[TheGiant]

Do you not stand by what you wrote?


Ofc we have to wait and see how the process works out until July, and more importantly new buyers need to be aware the older model boards must come with updated BIOS from the shelves - I really hope both MB makers and AMD learned their lesson from the Zen+ launch.

However, that doesn't mean anyone who intends to buy an 8-12C Zen2 CPU and overclock it shouldn't thoroughly document their motherboard purchase as VRM stage quality will be very important for those looking to overclock. That Buildzoid video I linked is probably an excellent primer towards an informed purchase with the only caveat he is talking about overclocking on custom loops as target, meaning when he says "this board may run 12 core" he actually means "this board will run 12 core overclocked on air or AIO water".

I do not dissagree, we are cutting the opposite sites of the cake

AMD got that marketing release- our chipsets support, its yours (MB makers) to decide

If they didnt do this release, nerd rage will come - why didnt you say to us, that not all will work, now they have they hands clean no matter what

but we here should be able, as this is technical forum to read the results, if really you can get what you want from the system (oc, tune) or just run low end model (like 3600 non x non oced just running default turbo settings)

 

[TheGiant]

Then there's the issue of PCIe4.0 . Some older AM4 boards are getting support for it, but we have yet to see how that will actually work in real-world applications. Will the chipset overheat?

that Is exactly my question

It looks fishy to me atm

why the x570 needs a fan and b450/x470 doesnt, when they both support pci-e 4.0

with the new Icelake results, I decided to buy the 3900X because there is no icelake desktop part coming

but I am first time ever confused which board to choose...

 

[jpiniero]

why the x570 needs a fan and b450/x470 doesnt, when they both support pci-e 4.0

Only in one PCIe slot though, and that's connected from the CPU, and it sounds like a kludge. You won't get 4.0 from anything connected on b450/x470.

 

[IntelUser2000]

why the x570 needs a fan and b450/x470 doesnt, when they both support pci-e 4.0

What? B450 and X470 doesn't support PCI-E 4.0. The X570 and its 5xx variants support PCI-E 4.0. So expect B550.

Ok, I did some reading it can support PCI-E 4.0 with BIOS updates, but its not for all boards, and with limitations. The X570 doesn't have such limitations.

 

[itsmydamnation]

why the x570 needs a fan and b450/x470 doesnt, when they both support pci-e 4.0

Because that will be chipset pci-e 4 a b450/x470 wont do pci-e 4 nvme on the chipset.

at best you will get pci-e 4 on the x16 link and if extra lucky the dedicated NVME link for a 400 series board.

 

[TheGiant]

Because that will be chipset pci-e 4 a b450/x470 wont do pci-e 4 nvme on the chipset.

at best you will get pci-e 4 on the x16 link and if extra lucky the dedicated NVME link for a 400 series board.

yeah, reading this atm

my usual system last like 3 years, so buying 3900X to sell it with pci-e 3 board isnt really an option
it looks like the "cheaper" boards get the attention as usual

so atm buying a new x470 board isnt a good option, B450 is out of the league

any info on b550?

 

[moinmoin]

https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=auto&tl=en&u=https://www.chiphell.com/thread-2001057-1-1.html

some important information I can decode from this author:

1. 5Ghz single core is realistic, and sounds like all core 4.8Ghz is pretty realistic
2. Cinebench R15, 8 core Zen2 @ 4.5Ghz easily beats 9900K @ 5Ghz
3. OC mechanism is pretty like Zen+, for example OC R5-2600 4.1Ghz sometimes stronger than 4.3Ghz due to heat or other factor......Zen2 has similar characteristic

So there is a chance that with 3rd gen Ryzen AMD is sandbagging the clocks and (unlike 1st and 2nd gen Ryzen) leaving plenty OC headroom? That would be an interesting turn of events since that would make the Computex reveals an extension of the CES one, with the true potential of the chips still being purposely concealed to the public (and by extension Intel).

 

[Atari2600]

Just on PCIe4 - what are the use cases that justify (require) it over PCIe3?

It was shown a couple of years back that PCIe3 x8 had a negligble difference compared to PCIe3 x16; I cannot see the fundamental change that would drive the need for PCIe4 in graphics.

Storage? Do consumers really read/write that much from multiple NVMe drives at once?

Something else I'm not aware of? Answers on a post(card) please!

 

[Topweasel]

So there is a chance that with 3rd gen Ryzen AMD is sandbagging the clocks and (unlike 1st and 2nd gen Ryzen) leaving plenty OC headroom? That would be an interesting turn of events since that would make the Computex reveals an extension of the CES one, with the true potential of the chips still being purposely concealed to the public (and by extension Intel).

Not sandbagging. I doubt AMD feels like they need to go full into 9900k with their CPU's due to the competitive compute for the price. My guess is that there is good chance that the speeds on these have a couple things going on. We don't know if the Turbo's are the actual max clocks, which I am guessing these are the clocks that stay within TDP and that there will still be XFR more. The other thing is just power in general AMD is going to rate these lower for power reasons in general. The power usuage on the 3800x is probably a bit high on rating, but I am guessing it maintains better multicore clocks. But in the end I think they are conservative to not have 140w+ CPU for OEM sake and to keep that market firmly Threadripper. I think we will find power usage and thermals and adequate binning to be a bigger part of the choice then the process, which is what held back previous gens.

 

[coercitiv]

Just on PCIe4 - what are the use cases that justify (require) it over PCIe3?

PCIe4 is only needed for those who will treat Zen2 12c as a cheap(er) mini-Threadripper, using higher PCIe speeds to partially compensate lower lane count, higher memory speeds to partially compensate lower number of channels. Meanwhile ST performance goes through the roof when comparing to TR, so the compromise is kinda worth it for machines built to handle all kinds off loads.

Everyone else will be just fine on PCIe3, especially if they get PCIe4 to 1 fast NVMe drive so they can watch those sequential meters go sky high.

But you knew all this already, so my answer wasn't really for you I guess

 

[Atari2600]

If the 3900X TDP of 105W really reflects real world power consumption - then the 3800X should have a good bit of thermal headroom.

Unless either the I/O chip needs to run same clock as chiplet (which would be limited by the 14nm curve) or the 7nm process exhibits a similar curve to 14nm, then you gotta imagine there are a couple of hundred MHz in there for a user to unlock.

 

[coercitiv]

I don't remember AMD even mentioning XFR during the Zen 2 presentation, and this is a feature that is bound to stay, especially considering Intel introduced their own version with Thermal Velocity.

 

[B-Riz]

Just like the 2k series on 1 series boards, you will be able to run a new 3k series *at spec*, but without all the features the X570 brings.

So, if your board has BIOS update, you can run a 65w or 105w stock no problem, but, you will lose XFR3 / PBO2, fancy NVME stuffs, all the goodies that PCIE Gen 4 brings.

This is just like Zen+ on B350 / X370.

ALSO, sustained max clocks depends on VRM quality / how cool you keep your cpu. I see this with the 2700x with stock cooler and PBO on; 1 thread goes to 4.35Ghz, but, all core load in Prime95 still stops at 3.8GHZ, BECUASE I am using the stock cooler.

Cheaper boards with budget VRMs is why the 65w 3700x exists, for all the ppl who bought an R3 1200 ish cpu waiting for Zen3.

The Zen chips do thermal throttle when running high load at default settings (NO PBO), I watched it many times when testing the 2700x / X470.

 

[beginner99]

I suspect there is no 16-core because all full dies go to epyc. they can offer epyc in 8-core increments eg. chiplets. Ryzen gets the broken dies 6-core and 12-core and the high leakage once as the 8-core.
Since only 1 core needs to be defunct to make it a 6-core (same number of cores per ccx) such an allocation makes sense. I supect also a 6-core sku (or even quad) with less cache.

I don't think there are that main broken dies that the can offer Epyc with partially active chiplets and my doubt chiplets can have different number of active cores, that would be akkward. Since then they would need to disable 2 cores per chiplet with 8 chiplets it adds up quickly. Easier to just remove entire chiplets.