That quality in people is well-known among business strategists, it is at least as big of a reason as keeping the competition in the dark, that all major details are withheld until just before releasing a product.I think his point was if AMD releases ryzen 4 in a year with even more cores, higher IPC, higher clocks and ddr5, then that sounds like worth the wait.
Not really. You would then have pcie4 and ddr5.
Somewhere in this thread it was mentioned that for older motherboards, only PART of the PCIE4 would work. Thats why its not a problem. I don't remember if its the video or the M.2 that is enabled, but only one of the two vs x570 has everything enabled.
being able to load up on fast DDR4 for much better prices sounds the better deal to me.
It would appear there will be no 3700. Normally we could expect them to announce it a bit later, but between the reduced TDP of the 3700X (65W) and the fact that they did announce 3600 (65W) and 3600X (95W) it does seem we won't be seeing a 3700 non-X in the immediate future.Btw is there no 3700? (non-X) SKU being released with the rest of them?
There is, it's the 3700x, Do to the looser constraints of 7nm they have better than 2700x clocks on the 65w part and spare room for a more balls to the wall 8c part. So the 3700x is positioned in the stack as the 1700/2700 direct replacement and is priced as such. By using the X value for it, there is room to put a lower power 3700 on there. The 3600 is where it kind of falls apart. They should be more open to using things like a 3650x so the 3600x can be the 65w CPU and a 45w 3600 after that. But they probably don't want use up all the potential combinations at release. Also not using the 3900 value would have suggested an imminent release of either the 16c Ryzen or the TR3 product lineup. Neither of those they will want to do because of how it might affect the adoption rate of the products they are selling now at the current prices.Well, there's always something better up and coming... just buy as it corresponds to your needs; not necessarily your desires.
Btw is there no 3700? (non-X) SKU being released with the rest of them?
But "it may be worth the wait" always has been the case, only the years between Sandy Bridge and the launch of Zen had a prolonged period of performance "stability" where the updates where relatively minor and could as well be achieved by overclocking.
What I meant was buying the lower end models more frequently instead of going for the top end and expecting it to last a long time might be a better strategy for lower budget enthusiasts. I think we can expect some major changes for the next few years. Before Sandy bridge, few expected to future proof a PC. I remember those days when I got a Celeron, Duron, etc in rapid succession.If you are genuinely interested in Matisse and want something that will last for awhile without breaking the budget, I would think a 3700x with an oversized cooler for OC (if necessary) might be a good way to go.
Or you can try to go cheaper with a 3600.
AMD plans to keep hitting year after year, so if you wait, yes, you will be rewarded. But eventually you will want to buy something.
To clarify, unless the person has money to burn, it now makes no sense to purchase top end models with the intention of expecting the performance to still be close to top end in several years. Spending extra money for the top end to future proof is now a losing proposition and I now believe it will be cheaper overall to buy lower end models and upgrade more often. of course, if you NEED the higher end models, then it's worth it.Don't understand?
You mean it has went away as it is so ridiculously easy now?
If you bought a good AM4 board in 2017, be it X370 or top end B350 you have had at least 3 generations of CPUs. Your X370 might even get a PCIe4 slot and you might see as much as a doubling of compute performance from 1800X to 3900X.
You have to go all the way back to the days of Skt939 to have anything like that change in performance - and that was because core count doubled.
PCIe 5.0 Specification Highlights
- Delivers 32 GT/s raw bit rate and up to 128 GB/s via x16 configuration
- Leverages and adds to the PCIe 4.0 specification and its support for higher speeds via extended tags and credits
- Implements electrical changes to improve signal integrity and mechanical performance of connectors
- Includes new backwards compatible CEM connector targeted for add-in cards
- Maintains backwards compatibility with PCIe 4.0, 3.x, 2.x and 1.x
To clarify, unless the person has money to burn, it now makes no sense to purchase top end models with the intention of expecting the performance to still be close to top end in several years. Spending extra money for the top end to future proof is now a losing proposition and I now believe it will be cheaper overall to buy lower end models and upgrade more often. of course, if you NEED the higher end models, then it's worth it.
Zen3 and Zen4 are expected to bring further large changes to the PC performance.
well I don't like it, having more than one (VRMs) on the boardComputerbase.de managed to get words from ASRock on the matter, it doesn't sound good: https://www.computerbase.de/2019-05/amd-x570-luefter/
"According to ASRock the PCH X570 gets hot in all operating states, even while idling. Due to that the fan will run continuously on all boards by ASRock. While the fan does trottle based on temperature, the manufacturer wasn't willing to give info on fan speed and noise level.".Laut ASRock wird der Platform Controller Hub (PCH) X570 in allen Betriebszuständen sehr warm, auch im Leerlauf. Darum werden die Lüfter bei allen ASrock-Platinen auch durchweg rotieren. Die Lüfter sind zwar temperaturgesteuert, was das für Drehzahl und Lautstärke bedeutet, konnte der Hersteller aber noch nicht verraten.
They said AM4 through 2020 on several occasions. Is it through all of it or will Zen 3 be a late release and AM5? Does the IO chip give them an opportunity for mid cycle option? I don't know. Two things that stick out. Outside DDR AMD has been hesitant to be the first on the board for any memory change. The reason being that they aren't big enough to force production numbers to a reasonable point. So I don't think they move to DDR5 ahead of Intel. The second being that AMD moved to PCIe 4.0 and was able to adapt PCIe 3.0 boards to have some limited PCIe 4.0 support. This matters because people projected that PCIe 4 would be skipped over. So AMD is probably not going to be in a hurry to jump onto PCIe 5. After moving all of their Datacenter solutions (including the M50/60) to PCIe 4.0. But the move to a chiplet solution does give AMD the opportunity to use the previous gen IO chip with new chiplets for an intermediary product. So if they did move to AM5, they could still have AM4 Zen 3 products.Is zen 3 going to stay on am4?
plus realistically ddr5 will be like all other new memory
Twice the price for the same performance
**at least when it’s first launched**
20% increase to transistor density, 10% performance uplift or 15% power efficiency increaseWhat is the density improvement of tsmc 7nm plus?
I ask because if zen3 as expected stays on am4 we know approx how much space there is for new cpu cores. Assuming the io as expected stays on 14nm.
I think Papermaster said that 5nm was going to be a relatively small bump when it came like 15-20% or so. So I am guessing that Zen 3 isn't going to be adding more cores through shrinkage but more on better yields and reduced pricing allowing them to go with larger dies or better organized. I am thinking Core improvement might also only come on the TR/EPYC side with a smaller IO die (7nm) and maybe less redundancy allowing them to use more chiplets. Another reason not to launch the 16c this gen if they aren't compelled. If the dies aren't getting any bigger AMD might rather save that as a new core count increase next gen.What is the density improvement of tsmc 7nm plus?
I ask because if zen3 as expected stays on am4 we know approx how much space there is for new cpu cores. Assuming the io as expected stays on 14nm.
Probably not. They said until 2020. Does that mean through 2020, or changing in 2020? We'll find out next year.Is zen 3 going to stay on am4?
What is the density improvement of tsmc 7nm plus?
I ask because if zen3 as expected stays on am4 we know approx how much space there is for new cpu cores. Assuming the io as expected stays on 14nm.
M.2 PCIe4 will not be enabled on x470 and lower, so that makes sense because the heatsink on those x570 boards is shared with the M.2 slots.
Distance. The first PCIe slot is close enough on most 370 and 470 boards, though not all. The M2 slots are typically further away.Why? Ist supossed the M2 slot to have PCI-E lanes coming directly from the CPU as well? I know some OEMs to have wired the extra x4 PCI-E from the soc to the secondary X16 slot, but if the lanes comes from the CPU the M2 slot should be PCI-E... most boards should be wired like this.
Distance. The first PCIe slot is close enough on most 370 and 470 boards, though not all. The M2 slots are typically further away.