Speculation: Ryzen 3000 series

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Snarf Snarf

Senior member
Feb 19, 2015
399
327
136
Is this really true though or is X570 doing an intel and plx'ing more PCIE 4.0 slots? The First 2 PCIE 16x slots and the main M.2 should all be getting fed from the CPU not the chipset.

I believe the issue is that the signaling used for PCIe 4.0 is very limited when it comes to the physical distance. It needs to be boosted and re-signaled to be able to reach all the slots on the motherboard (I think this is why x470 is only able to support the top slot, someone correct me if I'm wrong). There's a far better technical explanation on Anand, but this is my basic understanding of why the chipset is consuming so much power.
 

coercitiv

Diamond Member
Jan 24, 2014
6,400
12,849
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Looks like AMD's keynote slide shows 3800x winning in League of Legends, CS:GO, and PUBG as well. It'll lose GTAV by a hair. There is no minfps data here so take it with a grain of salt.

Does not look like AMD is going to win Dota2 either. I think here, Dota2 just wants more clocks, and the 3800x isn't going to clock as high as the 9900k out-of-the-box.
This is why my first reaction to those numbers was "the last stronghold is also under siege", in the sense that it will all come down to a few hundred Mhz, which is excellent news for their 3rd gen product.
 

mikk

Diamond Member
May 15, 2012
4,173
2,211
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The data we have so far indicates exactly that, a roughly +20% improvement in performance over Zen+ compounded from IPC increase and higher clocks (the 20% figure is my interpretation, the average across many games can land anywhere between +15-25%, depends on final clocks too). It's based on a handful of games though, and interestingly there's also a difference in numbers between the keynote slides and the press slide deck.


Same RAM for both or DDR4-3200 vs DDR4-2666?
 

amrnuke

Golden Member
Apr 24, 2019
1,181
1,772
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Same RAM for both or DDR4-3200 vs DDR4-2666?

If we are going to nit-pick, we also would need to know the CL of each set of RAM, not just the clock. Highest Zen+ support is actually 2933 so I hope they used that. For Zen 2, if they used 3200 that's fine. But there's a difference between CL14 2933 (9.55ns) and CL16 3200 (10.00ns) which is 4.7% faster on the 2933. But if CL is held steady at 16ns for each, the difference in absolute latency is 10ns on 3200 and 10.91ns on 2933, which is a 9.1% benefit for 3200.

Lots more data we need to know about the benchmarks.

Also lots more data we need to know on how absolute latency translates to real-world benchmarks.
 

Topweasel

Diamond Member
Oct 19, 2000
5,436
1,655
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I believe the issue is that the signaling used for PCIe 4.0 is very limited when it comes to the physical distance. It needs to be boosted and re-signaled to be able to reach all the slots on the motherboard (I think this is why x470 is only able to support the top slot, someone correct me if I'm wrong). There's a far better technical explanation on Anand, but this is my basic understanding of why the chipset is consuming so much power.

Okay for the most part I was thinking it would have inline boosters for the slots that needed them and not to have it managed or fed from the Chipset. But if that is how it works that makes sense. Specially since the 570x is the EPYC Chipset. In theory EPYC wouldn't need a chipset but if it's managing the signal boost for all the PCIe lanes it would make sense that EPYC needs it and why this chipset has double the power requirements of x470. I wonder what this means for the B550 when that comes out. If AMD decided to do this to get the PCIe 4 situation worked out, I wonder if Asmedia is just going to recycle the B350/450 chipset and those boards will only support PCIe 4.0 in the same situations X370/X470 do.
 

PPB

Golden Member
Jul 5, 2013
1,118
168
106
anyone has news bout b550 chipset? MB with fans or not?

can't believe I wont buy an excellent product (3800X or 3900X) because of chipset fan in 2019.....
It just shows The great lengths some people take just to keep buying intel products despite almost other metric be favorable for AMD and zen 2

Also, you can either:

- buy x470/b450 mobos and still be fine but no pci e 4.

- just unplug the damn fan/remove it altogether. You just lose the ability of running raid nvme pci e 4.0 (well you can but that chipset will be hotter than a 9900KS).
 
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Topweasel

Diamond Member
Oct 19, 2000
5,436
1,655
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With 8 Vega CU you could make that all in ~210mm2, and die salvage could be made for dGPU purpose for a successor to RX 550.

Whether such a package could fit on mobile FP5 socket is an important consideration.

Whether it's worth it also depends on how long until Zen3+Navi monolithic APU takes to arrive.
AMD has talked about how in the past they didn't like the turnaround time between new cpu core to new GPU core to new APU. I don't know if just doing the graphic and CPU at once and then an APU 6 months later (instead of CPU 6 months later GPU 6 months later APU). But the quickest turnaround would be to get away from monolithic APU's. Then again APU's are made first for mobile platforms. Chiplet's won't work as well in that setting for power reasons. That said I would assume the next APU Mono or Chiplet based will be Zen 2 + Navi and will be the 4k series.
 

Shivansps

Diamond Member
Sep 11, 2013
3,873
1,527
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Im sorry but this is a broken promise. There is NO REASON for A320 and other 300 series mb to no support up to 8 cores.

BTW this also petty much shows that we should not expect other APU than the Picasso refresh on 3000 series.
 
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Shivansps

Diamond Member
Sep 11, 2013
3,873
1,527
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Which to me translates "the board makers could update, but we won't guarantee they will, especially models not being sold anymore"

A320 is still sold as a current line product because it never had a 400 refresh, there is no reason for it to no support 65W Ryzen 3000 CPUs.

At any rate, AM4 was promised to last until 2020 now im not even sure if my motherboard will support the 3000 series or not (AB350-Gaming). There is really no excuses here... In fact with what they plan to replace A320 with?
 
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Kenmitch

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
8,505
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Will be nice when the dust settles and the fog clears on Zen 2 based offerings. Maybe I missed it but was the review date, nda date, etc discussed?

I'm not really looking to built a rig currently, but my son is thinking about upgrading his rig at some point in the near future.
 

amrnuke

Golden Member
Apr 24, 2019
1,181
1,772
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I currently have a Gigabyte DS3H B450 running a 2200G (65W) and I'm assuming, since I no longer will have an APU, if I upgrade to 3700X (65W) it should be fine, even with just a 3+3 VRM?
 

DarthKyrie

Golden Member
Jul 11, 2016
1,534
1,284
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I currently have a Gigabyte DS3H B450 running a 2200G (65W) and I'm assuming, since I no longer will have an APU, if I upgrade to 3700X (65W) it should be fine, even with just a 3+3 VRM?

I don't think you should have an issue, but check Gigabyte's latest BIOS and see if it is for Ryzen 3000 series.
 
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Markfw

Moderator Emeritus, Elite Member
May 16, 2002
25,752
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Will be nice when the dust settles and the fog clears on Zen 2 based offerings. Maybe I missed it but was the review date, nda date, etc discussed?

I'm not really looking to built a rig currently, but my son is thinking about upgrading his rig at some point in the near future.
I think pre-orders on July 1st, and available on July 10th. Don't hold me to that, I just seem to remember somebody saying that.
 
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amd6502

Senior member
Apr 21, 2017
971
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Then again APU's are made first for mobile platforms. Chiplet's won't work as well in that setting for power reasons.

Would it be pretty bad for (laptop) power consumption to have a chiplet BGA socket directly linked to a chipset/northbridge+iGPU?

In the old days (i386-5x86 days) I think there were off-CPU northbridges, as well as onboard GPU's.
 

Mopetar

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2011
8,011
6,454
136
I think pre-orders on July 1st, and available on July 10th. Don't hold me to that, I just seem to remember somebody saying that.

I thought they were launching on July 7th (7/7) to tie in with the whole angle of being the first 7nm CPU. July 7th is a Sunday so perhaps that means no real availability at most places until the 8th, but I don't recall hearing the 10th for availability.
 
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D283W

Junior Member
Dec 11, 2017
9
22
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I think it was June 10th when more info would be made available at E3, then pre-order on July 1, with availability maybe on July 7.
 
Reactions: trollspotter
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