Speculation: Ryzen 3000 series

[Shivansps]

Looks like Gigabyte A320M-S2H got the new bios now, and in the CPU suport list they show up to the Ryzen 9 3900X. MSI and Asus did the same thing and Asrock will follow suit shortly.

Im happy to see how OEMs resolved this issue and that AMD promise is fulfilled.

 

[DarthKyrie]

I have been debating 6 vs 8 core. But considering how long I'm likely to keep it (I've been on my 2500K for eight years), I've been leaning toward the extra cores. Then again, when I'm keeping it for so long I come full circle and start thinking that splashing out the extra $130 for the newest generation is a tiny amount of money when it's spread over so long.

Just remember that AMD is also still coming with newer and better stuff next year and the year after that for the foreseeable future. 7 EUV should bring a very nice bump in performance to Zen3 plus whatever IPC they are able to squeeze out next year along with SMT3/SMT4. Just think you could drop $200 on the 3600 this year and then next year pick up the next one.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

To be fair, it's not like AMD haven't paper-launched CPUs before. And it's not like they wouldn't be able to get away with it, given that Intel appear to have nothing but a very slightly better-binned 9900K scheduled on the desktop for the rest of this year.

I'm not thinking a total paper launch, I'm thinking more like an iphone launch where there is some inventory everywhere, it just sells out in the first hour. Then its a slow drip replenishing stock for a month.

 

[maddie]

I have been debating 6 vs 8 core. But considering how long I'm likely to keep it (I've been on my 2500K for eight years), I've been leaning toward the extra cores. Then again, when I'm keeping it for so long I come full circle and start thinking that splashing out the extra $130 for the newest generation is a tiny amount of money when it's spread over so long.

I made an argument some times ago in that the smarter strategy for this time is to get a reasonable CPU and upgrade more often.

1] We have the old model where most expected the near future to be substantially better than the present and bought products knowing obsolescence was guaranteed.

2] The recently accepted strategy was buying the best or close to it and being able to relax for years.

3] I believe that the best strategy for the present is to buy the budget king and upgrade at most every other gen. We are going through an inflection point in CPUs that makes the recent past a poor predictor of the future. The older folks will have a better understanding of this as we lived through both periods. Younger people only know the Intel dominance period and the slow progress made.

That's why I'm getting a 3600.

 

[TheGiant]

I made an argument some times ago in that the smarter strategy for this time is to get a reasonable CPU and upgrade more often.

1] We have the old model where most expected the near future to be substantially better than the present and bought products knowing obsolescence was guaranteed.

2] The recently accepted strategy was buying the best or close to it and being able to relax for years.

3] I believe that the best strategy for the present is to buy the budget king and upgrade at most every other gen. We are going through an inflection point in CPUs that makes the recent past a poor predictor of the future. The older folks will have a better understanding of this as we lived through both periods. Younger people only know the Intel dominance period and the slow progress made.

That's why I'm getting a 3600.

Exactly

with 3600 you can buy cheaper board and you can get enough performance for 98% tasks

if a 6/12 CPU is not enough, I expect people already have more cores like TR or SKL-X

 

[BigDaveX]

I'm not thinking a total paper launch, I'm thinking more like an iphone launch where there is some inventory everywhere, it just sells out in the first hour. Then its a slow drip replenishing stock for a month.

For many people here, what you're describing is a paper launch, and so is anything else less than full retail availability on launch day.

But what you're describing is pretty much how they released the first Athlon 64s back in the day, plus a couple of their other CPUs since then (and on the Intel side, it was how they released Conroe), so it certainly wouldn't be without precedent.

 

[Atari2600]

I have been debating 6 vs 8 core. But considering how long I'm likely to keep it (I've been on my 2500K for eight years), I've been leaning toward the extra cores. Then again, when I'm keeping it for so long I come full circle and start thinking that splashing out the extra $130 for the newest generation is a tiny amount of money when it's spread over so long.

Don't cut corners (on the mobo), get a rock-solid motherboard (that won't have short changed on VRMs etc) and the best value mid-range CPU.

Then in a few years time you go out and buy the best value mid-range CPU at that time and drop it in.

Hey presto, a big advance in performance for not a massive outlay.

 

[Kenmitch]

I'm not thinking a total paper launch, I'm thinking more like an iphone launch where there is some inventory everywhere, it just sells out in the first hour. Then its a slow drip replenishing stock for a month.

They decided on 7/7 as a symbolic date so it's a who knows it when it comes to inventory at launch. For all we know they've been ready to rumble for a month or two.

 

[Atari2600]

The older folks will have a better understanding of this as we lived through both periods. Younger people only know the Intel dominance period and the slow progress made.

Youngsters these days...

Don't even know their born!!!

 

[dacostafilipe]

... if we do not get an APU with HBM from AMD, then they have abjectly failed to bring a good solution to market ...

Define "we"?

IMO, we consumers, will not get an APU with HBM in the near future because it's just to expensive and not flexible (SKUs needed for the market).

But, I could see AMD producing "custom silicon" CPUs/APUs with HBM for a future exascale Supercomputer ...

 

[Vattila]

Define "we"?

I meant "if we, enthusiastic industry observers, do not see an APU with HBM from AMD, then they have abjectly failed…"

I could see AMD producing "custom silicon" CPUs/APUs with HBM for a future exascale Supercomputer

That would be good. However, if due to cost there is no HBM APU in the consumer market over the next 5 years, especially in thin-and-light devices, then it would be a great shame, considering the technical advantages of the solution.

 

[CHADBOGA]

I have been debating 6 vs 8 core. But considering how long I'm likely to keep it (I've been on my 2500K for eight years), I've been leaning toward the extra cores. Then again, when I'm keeping it for so long I come full circle and start thinking that splashing out the extra $130 for the newest generation is a tiny amount of money when it's spread over so long.

Whilst I don't need to upgrade right now, if my motherboard blew up, I would be weighing up between a modest cost 6 core, or living high on the hog with the 12 core.

8 core this time round, is a no man's land product for me.

 

[ubern00b]

I didn't upgrade to ryzen+ from my 1600 as there wasn't enough uplift in performance for the cost in my case as I plan to stick with 6 cores, with the 3600 that performance has gone from maybe 10% to possibly + 30% due to both the ipc increase as well as the core clock increase, if a 4.4ghz all core is possible which I highly think it will be and maybe even 4.5ghz, that's a 500-600mhz on my current core clock as well as the increased ipc, totally worth it for me

 

[RTX2080]

Looks like Gigabyte A320M-S2H got the new bios now, and in the CPU suport list they show up to the Ryzen 9 3900X. MSI and Asus did the same thing and Asrock will follow suit shortly.

Im happy to see how OEMs resolved this issue and that AMD promise is fulfilled.

now you see.when support list showed A320 was ditched but B350&X370 still rocks, I think this was not set in stone, some custom beefy A320's Zen2 compatibility is decided by mobo manufacturers. Now they should begin to work on it. Of course not every A320 mobo rocks, but don't give up hope if you're owner.

 

[lobz]

Don't cut corners (on the mobo), get a rock-solid motherboard (that won't have short changed on VRMs etc) and the best value mid-range CPU.

Then in a few years time you go out and buy the best value mid-range CPU at that time and drop it in.

Hey presto, a big advance in performance for not a massive outlay.

by current intel standards, AMD is launching exclusively high-end CPUs

 

[lobz]

I didn't upgrade to ryzen+ from my 1600 as there wasn't enough uplift in performance for the cost in my case as I plan to stick with 6 cores, with the 3600 that performance has gone from maybe 10% to possibly + 30% due to both the ipc increase as well as the core clock increase, if a 4.4ghz all core is possible which I highly think it will be and maybe even 4.5ghz, that's a 500-600mhz on my current core clock as well as the increased ipc, totally worth it for me

from 1600 to 3600 it's gonna be rather 25% to 40% than 10% - 30% and I think it's massively good news

 

[lightmanek]

Looks like Gigabyte A320M-S2H got the new bios now, and in the CPU suport list they show up to the Ryzen 9 3900X. MSI and Asus did the same thing and Asrock will follow suit shortly.

Im happy to see how OEMs resolved this issue and that AMD promise is fulfilled.

I still have a slight hope that some motherboard manufacturers will bother and add PCIe 4.0 support to their select AM4 boards of yesterday. This would be quite nice, even if only for NVMe or first PCIe slot.
If not, then someone will hack the BIOS ...

 

[ubern00b]

from 1600 to 3600 it's gonna be rather 25% to 40% than 10% - 30% and I think it's massively good news

I did mean that though didn't quite word it that way, so instead of getting a 10% improvement from ryzen +, I'll see a more noticeable 30%+ performance uplift including the 500mhz higher overclock on top of the significant ipc increase, but yes it should be quite a decent upgrade

 

[Topweasel]

I have been debating 6 vs 8 core. But considering how long I'm likely to keep it (I've been on my 2500K for eight years), I've been leaning toward the extra cores. Then again, when I'm keeping it for so long I come full circle and start thinking that splashing out the extra $130 for the newest generation is a tiny amount of money when it's spread over so long.

My response will always be MOAR CORESSSSS!!!! In a Tim Allen voice. 92% sure I am getting the 3900x for no other reason then to have an awesome 12c24t ITX system.

 

[IEC]

I made an argument some times ago in that the smarter strategy for this time is to get a reasonable CPU and upgrade more often.

1] We have the old model where most expected the near future to be substantially better than the present and bought products knowing obsolescence was guaranteed.

2] The recently accepted strategy was buying the best or close to it and being able to relax for years.

3] I believe that the best strategy for the present is to buy the budget king and upgrade at most every other gen. We are going through an inflection point in CPUs that makes the recent past a poor predictor of the future. The older folks will have a better understanding of this as we lived through both periods. Younger people only know the Intel dominance period and the slow progress made.

That's why I'm getting a 3600.

Yep, this approach makes a lot of sense from the value perspective. The sweet spots were 6c/12t and the low-end 8c/16t parts. With the advent of 2 chiplet parts, that is now changing. The 6c/12t sweet spot remains, but 8c/16t is no longer as good a value per-core.

Consider that I spent $499 on a Ryzen 7 1800X at launch, which at the time was a really good deal for a top tier 8c/16t CPU. That same $499 will get you a ultra high end 12c/24t part this time around, with IPC and frequency gains to boot.

 

[exquisitechar]

https://www.chiphell.com/thread-2011645-1-1.html

this guy has a low-end sku(3600?) and has 1.664v@5.1Ghz, but they also said temperature is not good and OC headroom is very limited.

now I begin to doubt Chiphell is not a reliable source anymore, all good&bad news flowed out just from this, I wont quote their rumor again. I must say sorry here about the '5Ghz' rumor(whatever 1core or all core) which was from them

edit:
typo:1.64v -> 1.664v
author said he used LN2 to cool it

Yes, it seems that OC headroom is very limited, as I thought it would be. 8 Pack from OCUK also implies that OCing is like the previous gen Ryzens, we'll be lucky to reach the boost clock with an all core
OC. AMD's slides implied as much with the PBO automatic overclocking performance increase in CB R20 ST being almost nonexistent for the 3800x. PBO will mostly increase the clock speed when multiple cores are under load, when it comes to the higher clocked SKUs. 3600 will get a nice boost in ST performance because its clock speeds are low to begin with - just like the slides say.

 

[RTX2080]

Yes, it seems that OC headroom is very limited, as I thought it would be. 8 Pack from OCUK also implies that OCing is like the previous gen Ryzens, we'll be lucky to reach the boost clock with an all core
OC. AMD's slides implied as much with the PBO automatic overclocking performance increase in CB R20 ST being almost nonexistent for the 3800x. PBO will mostly increase the clock speed when multiple cores are under load, when it comes to the higher clocked SKUs. 3600 will get a nice boost in ST performance because its clock speeds are low to begin with - just like the slides say.

Just now I suddenly heard a news from an owner of various Zen2 SKUs, seems X version has better headroom, 3800X best bin could reach 5Ghz@1.5V(1 core?) with watercool. But I don't know whether he is trustable or not and he's bounded by NDA so no photo.

https://ngabbs.com/read.php?tid=17769102&_fp=2&page=3

3600x 4.6-4.8g (Corsair VIII Hero?)
3800x 5g(x470 1.5v)

 

[ubern00b]

Just now I suddenly heard a news from an owner of various Zen2 SKUs, seems X version has better headroom, 3800X best bin could reach 5Ghz@1.5V(1 core?) with watercool. But I don't know whether he is trustable or not and he's bounded by NDA so no photo.

https://ngabbs.com/read.php?tid=17769102&_fp=2&page=3

Hopefully my wish of a 4.4/4.5ghz all core 3600 will be likely then, sure 5ghz would be awesome but I'm somewhat realistic

 

[DrMrLordX]

That's also my gripe with "powerful" iGPUs. They are overpowered (use too much die space, cost too much) for most users while lacking bandwidth and power for the people that actually need GPU power.

Now all you have to do is complain about the heat density, and you can do lappie design for any major OEM! Congrats!

Its now a broken link

Yeah, I see that. Short-lived mistake I guess.

To be fair, it's not like AMD haven't paper-launched CPUs before. And it's not like they wouldn't be able to get away with it, given that Intel appear to have nothing but a very slightly better-binned 9900K scheduled on the desktop for the rest of this year.

AMD hasn't got any financial incentive for that though. Pent-up demand is everywhere. Time to let it play out. Plus the longer they wait for actual availability, the shorter the market window until Zen3 comes out.

Looks like Gigabyte A320M-S2H got the new bios now, and in the CPU suport list they show up to the Ryzen 9 3900X.

Waits for the first person to try a 3900x on an A320 board

 

[Thunder 57]

Curious why you think they will go lga, it was my understanding that pga and zif were a more durable connector due to pins being more substantial in size on pga than lga. Is there a major bandwidth difference?

While I do like the classic PGA I think AMD will go LGA. It will save them a bit cost wise I think, and allow them more expansion options. That said, I am surprised AMD got 1331 pins in the AM4 package. Who would've thought that possible when looking at a Socket A CPU?