Speculation: Ryzen 3000 series

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beginner99

Diamond Member
Jun 2, 2009
5,223
1,598
136
the faster the CPU you are going to need in order to get 100% of the GPU performance.

I disagree. Faster yes but not the fastest. For most games at 4k it doesn't matter if you have a 2600x or 9900k. So better to save the $400 and put it into the gpu.

And vice-versa a 2080 ti is useless at 1080p. Better to get a 2070 or upcoming 2060 and put the money saved into a 9900k or 9700k.
 
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exquisitechar

Senior member
Apr 18, 2017
666
904
136
Yeah, but Zen3 isn't just Zen2 on 7nm+. Zen3 is actually a new core, unlike Zen+, and 7nm+ should still be a much bigger improvement over 7nm than, say, GF 12LP was over its 14nm. It should even be quite significantly denser.

Also, kind of off-topic, but @CatMerc (he's trustworthy) had this to say about Milan on Twitter, pretty exciting:
I've learned Milan is special. Not gonna say how or why until it's public though. Just rest assured it's not gonna be simple.
Is it more special than Rome?
AMD is ******* crazy and I still can't believe it
Looks like AMD isn't taking their foot off the pedal anytime soon.
 

AtenRa

Lifer
Feb 2, 2009
14,003
3,361
136
I disagree. Faster yes but not the fastest. For most games at 4k it doesn't matter if you have a 2600x or 9900k. So better to save the $400 and put it into the gpu.

And vice-versa a 2080 ti is useless at 1080p. Better to get a 2070 or upcoming 2060 and put the money saved into a 9900k or 9700k.

I was talking about maximum performance irrelevant of the resolution but at maximum image quality.

For 1080p today there are games that RTX 2060 will be the bottleneck because in order to get 120+ fps you will need to lower the image quality settings (example = BF V ), so you will need a faster GPU.

If you go with the RTX 2080Ti because you want/need 144fps at 1080p ultra, then you will also need a CPU capable to drive the RTX 2080Ti at those fps. And if you want to play at 160 or 200fps at 1080p ultra, you will need an even faster card than the RTX 2080ti and this will require an even faster CPU.

If you dont care about the maximum image quality then most $200 CPUs will get you at 120-144fps with lower performing GPUs like the RX 580 or GTX 1070/2060 etc
 
Feb 4, 2009
34,699
15,941
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I'm not following that logic at all? So they lost talent when things were lean, why would they not be able to hire it when things are going well?

Not only that, but considering where things are versus where they were, it seems like they might be better off without them? Speaking from an engineering and successful implementation of product, they don't seem to have suffered for it.

More of a corporate thing. Market got stale, there was little need to keep expensive & talented people around so cut payrolls to get rid of them to save a few salary dollars, then mis-read what your competitor is doing and have no talent left.
 

scannall

Golden Member
Jan 1, 2012
1,948
1,640
136
I'm not following that logic at all? So they lost talent when things were lean, why would they not be able to hire it when things are going well?

Not only that, but considering where things are versus where they were, it seems like they might be better off without them? Speaking from an engineering and successful implementation of product, they don't seem to have suffered for it.
4 generations of the same core, and 10nm being stuck in the mud for years isn't a good thing. They've made their short term gains from those decisions, and they could continue making money just about forever that way if there were no competition. And there wasn't for a very long time. Once you lose high end talent, it is very difficult to get replacements. Then more years developing a product and getting it out the door.
 

ub4ty

Senior member
Jun 21, 2017
749
898
96
I was talking about maximum performance irrelevant of the resolution but at maximum image quality.

For 1080p today there are games that RTX 2060 will be the bottleneck because in order to get 120+ fps you will need to lower the image quality settings (example = BF V ), so you will need a faster GPU.

If you go with the RTX 2080Ti because you want/need 144fps at 1080p ultra, then you will also need a CPU capable to drive the RTX 2080Ti at those fps. And if you want to play at 160 or 200fps at 1080p ultra, you will need an even faster card than the RTX 2080ti and this will require an even faster CPU.

If you dont care about the maximum image quality then most $200 CPUs will get you at 120-144fps with lower performing GPUs like the RX 580 or GTX 1070/2060 etc

Not commentary directed at you but the gaming performance topic in general..


I'd love to see someone do a in-depth technical writeup with a performance profiler at the OS level, thread/CPU level, PCIE messaging level, ram I/O, disk I/O, and GPU level showing exactly what's occurring related to this so-called 'bottle necking'.


A 2700x can beat a 9900k in some games and a 9900k can beat a 2700x in others.
An 8 core 4.0Ghz processor vs. a 1.35Ghz GPU
The CPU cores are not maxed out ...
This reflects code execution inefficiency and wildly variable structuring.
If you think these gaming companies are dedicating millions of dollars in staffing to ensure a video game is written super efficiently so it can run on the latest/greatest processor w/ 8 cores and a 2080ti, you're mistaken. That code looks like crap in a number of cases and runs as best it can at what hardware is thrown at it. Look at some of the performance increases from Battlefield 5 after updates.. 20/30% or any other game in the past .. 20/30% is common after a 'patch'. That's the bottleneck not the processor. At 4.0Ghz, a processor can do enough to make your eyes bleed .. 120hz is nothing. However, if your code is written like crap and its idle 50% of the time, that will change. Also, the worst thing of all is pcie communication latency. If you have a lot of chatter and inefficient memory access, that's your bottleneck.


It's funny that people think a modern 4.0Ghz processor is bottlenecking vidya games without any profiling data showing where the slowdown is coming from. This is not a pro-AMD post. This is a, if a claim is made, prove it in great detail post. With all of the factors listed, the CPU only assumes a %'age of the puzzle..

Anyone remember this crap :

Most reviews are hot garbage... This is what occurs when you have a mainstream phenomenon take over a market vs a highly informed and critical grouping of people. I'm really getting over this element of computing because the more you dissect it, absolutely nothing is there. Gaming is not the most compute critical task in the world. A lot of the code is inefficient is heck and doesn't scale across cores. When you involve all of the system elements, it's an absolute clown show to look at. If a company can release multiple software updates that result in 20-30% performance improvements (happens all the time in gaming), they're the bottleneck not the hardware. Then there's Winblows scheduler and OS ... Then there's the slew of posts I've already made on this topic regarding the physical limitations of your human vision...

The smallest “microsaccades” move the eye through only a few minutes of arc (one minute of arc equals one-sixtieth of one degree). They last about 20 milliseconds and have maximum velocities of about 10 degrees per second. The largest saccades (excluding the contributions of head movements) can be up to 100 degrees, with a duration of up to 300 milliseconds and a maximum velocity of about 500–700 degrees per second.
https://www.britannica.com/science/saccade
Oh and no you're not processing visual input during this time. Your brain masks it... Aka : dropped frames

Meanwhile:
> WE WUZ Super human frame processors ... MUH FPS.
> Gamers have more significant compute requirements that anyone in the world.

Meanwhile, enterprise and super computers are running on 2.0Ghz processors with way worse single core performance. Fine, vidya game performance is vidya game performance. But don't make a mountain out of a mole hill. It's a vidya game and its likely poorly written for high end performance... And don't even get me started at the sheer amount of boneheads who do reviews for profit.

In many parts of technology, we have created things that exceed human capability.. Only gamers seem to think they are cyborgs with super human capabilities.
(A 4.0Ghz 8 core processor is too slow meng.. It's holding up muh FPS)...
> Nah son !
 
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ozzy702

Golden Member
Nov 1, 2011
1,151
530
136
A 2700x can beat a 9900k in some games and a 9900k can beat a 2700x in others.

Which games? I haven't seen a single review where a 2700X beats a 9900k and in many cases is vastly slower. As a consumer I don't care why product A is slower than product B, and excuses for slower performance does nothing to change the end result and user experience. Poor code or not, if you want to push smooth, fluid, high frame rates, you choose Intel at the moment. Hopefully that changes with Zen2.
 

ub4ty

Senior member
Jun 21, 2017
749
898
96
Which games? I haven't seen a single review where a 2700X beats a 9900k and in many cases is vastly slower.

Google it. I found it in less than 2 minutes. A side by side showing 2700x vs 9900k in various games and the 2700x beat the 9900k in variosu games (It was a youtube video).


As a consumer I don't care why product A is slower than product B, and excuses for slower performance does nothing to change the end result and user experience.
I Care when it will cost me double the money and it's due to someone writing crappy software... Maybe that's where were different. GPU or CPU limited is a thing. Lastly, when your visual cortex is dropping frames for 18ms at a time, I'm loving the 500hz fantasy cyberborg class gamers rant about... Essentially useless performance.. Something clever companies make tons of money off because certain consumers don't care how or why things work. I got $40 bottles of smart water for sale as well.

Poor code or not, if you want to push smooth, fluid, high frame rates, you choose Intel at the moment. Hopefully that changes with Zen2.
> MUH vidya
Show me the SLI'd 2080tis for $2400 and we can talk about the dire need for vidya performance. Obviously there's a sensible limit.
 
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Stryke1983

Member
Jan 1, 2016
176
268
136
Google it. I found it in less than 2 minutes. A side by side showing 2700x vs 9900k in various games and the 2700x beat the 9900k in variosu games (It was a youtube video).



I Care when it will cost me double the money and it's due to someone writing crappy software... Maybe that's where were different. GPU or CPU limited is a thing. Lastly, when your visual cortex is dropping frames for 18ms at a time, I'm loving the 500hz fantasy cyberborg class gamers rant about... Essentially useless performance.. Something clever companies make tons of money off because certain consumers don't care how or why things work. I got $40 bottles of smart water for sale as well.


> MUH vidya
Show me the SLI'd 2080tis for $2400 and we can talk about the dire need for vidya performance. Obviously there's a sensible limit.

Just glanced at the 9900k reviews from this site, HardOCP, Tom's Hardware and Gamer's Nexus. Unless I missed something, every single one shows the 9900k to be faster for gaming in every single game across a large range of titles from FPS to RTS. You are making a statement that goes against the evidence, please back up your statement with evidence from reliable sources.
 

ozzy702

Golden Member
Nov 1, 2011
1,151
530
136
Google it. I found it in less than 2 minutes. A side by side showing 2700x vs 9900k in various games and the 2700x beat the 9900k in variosu games (It was a youtube video).

I Care when it will cost me double the money and it's due to someone writing crappy software... Maybe that's where were different. GPU or CPU limited is a thing. Lastly, when your visual cortex is dropping frames for 18ms at a time, I'm loving the 500hz fantasy cyberborg class gamers rant about... Essentially useless performance.. Something clever companies make tons of money off because certain consumers don't care how or why things work. I got $40 bottles of smart water for sale as well.

> MUH vidya
Show me the SLI'd 2080tis for $2400 and we can talk about the dire need for vidya performance. Obviously there's a sensible limit.

Any game that the 2700x performs better than a 9900k on will be an extreme outlier an as of now I've seen zero reputable reviews that claim any game besting the 9900k. Sure, I'd love for all games to be so cleanly programmed that they run extremely effiently and don't need high end hardware, but you and I both know that's a pipe dream. I deal with reality, not fantasy, and just like "AMD owning the console market will make AMD CPU/GPU game awesome" never came to fruition, hoping for games to be programmed better is a massive waste of breath. The reality is AMD has some serious ground to make up in gaming and it may or may not do that with Zen2. I hope they do.

Most of us running high hz monitors tailor our graphics settings to target high frame rates. SLI 2080TIs are needed for high frame rates. In most games even a 1070TI will pull high frame rates with appropriate settings, especially at 1080p. Sorry, but going from 60hz to 144hz was huge and anyone that's done it will tell you the same thing. Is 120 to 144hz the same jump, nope and maybe it's not noticeable but I can absolutely tell when framerates are hopping all over and when fps drops down below 100fps. If you want smooth, high frame rates on AAA games like BFV, unfortunately your only option right now is Intel. If you're ok with 60hz AMD becomes an option and a much less expensive one.
 
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IEC

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Jun 10, 2004
14,354
5,012
136
was this even in any doubt ever at all?

Considering they did the exact same thing with the 2000-series, fairly predictable. It won't be until the 4000-series that APUs get a 7nm makeover.
 
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