Speculation: Ryzen 3000 series

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maddogmcgee

Senior member
Apr 20, 2015
385
310
136
What I meant was I would think people have already bought a Ryzen 2600,2700 and anything faster than a 4970 on the Intel side in the past 2 or 3 years.
These cpu's are not much faster ,especially if you game at 1440p or above.
For productivity the 12 core part is good for $500 though.


The difference is someone like me with a 6700k can upgrade the number of cores (I was suprised at how often 4/8 was a limit when coming from a 4/4 Sandy.) for highly threaded games and other tasks without any sacrifice in games that don't take advantage of a tonne of cores. That is huge and the thing that has me excited about this.

As much as I loved the idea of swapping to AMD last year, I really didn't want to take a hit in games that relied really strongly on a main thread.
 

happy medium

Lifer
Jun 8, 2003
14,387
480
126
Captain O. has realised that owners of current high-end CPUs don't get great value from an "upgrade" to the very next CPU generation. Shocking. You had to find something to criticise though I suppose.

Maybe 12 cores are not aimed at gaming?
/I
Current is not 3 years old my friend.
 

Asterox

Golden Member
May 15, 2012
1,028
1,786
136
It's all fun and games until Intel releases something on or before the Zen 2 release date. Yes, it's all over for intel! That is too funny. I am pulling for AMD but there is more than a month to go.

Well Intel 10 Core CPU is coming, " and for only 700$" and will compete with..............


CPU cooler comparison, or real world cooling performance.

 

Hans Gruber

Platinum Member
Dec 23, 2006
2,221
1,155
136
Do I wait for a 16 core part or buy the 3900X as soon as possible?
This is the question my impulsive self already knows the answer to.
You buy the 8 core part and wait for prices to drop or advancements in the 12 and 16 core part. As time goes on the fabrication process improves and the newer chips will run at lower volts and OC better than the 1st off the line CPU's. But those are for the early adopters, they have no budgets.
 
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badb0y

Diamond Member
Feb 22, 2010
4,015
30
91
Who buys these cpu's? If a person has a 8700k,9600k,9700k,9900k, ryzen 2600 or 2700, this is not a good upgrade, is it? Not in my opinion.
The 12 core is cool but we really don't need 12 cores to game for another 2 years.
Ryzen 4 and Intel 7nm with be here by then.
I guess if you still have a bulldozer or sandy bridge system it's a great time to upgrade but I suspect anyone that has upgraded in the past 3 or so years will not find Ryzen 3700 that appealing.
People like me buy it because why not?
 

Snarf Snarf

Senior member
Feb 19, 2015
399
327
136
Current is not 3 years old my friend.

... And not everyone upgrades platforms every 3 years...

Also 4790k at 4.8 GHz is probably a golden sample, mine doesn't go past 4.6 without obscene voltages and a de-lid.

These are great upgrades for anyone on anything sandy-kaby, single generation upgrades are never a good use of money.
 

happy medium

Lifer
Jun 8, 2003
14,387
480
126
... And not everyone upgrades platforms every 3 years...

Also 4790k at 4.8 GHz is probably a golden sample, mine doesn't go past 4.6 without obscene voltages and a de-lid.

These are great upgrades for anyone on anything sandy-kaby, single generation upgrades are never a good use of money.
I agree,that's exactly what I said.
These are good upgrades for people with something older than a 4770k's overclocked or 1700x overclocked.
My point was if you still had a 2600k or bulldozer CPU and didn't upgrade to a 8700k/9700k or Ryzen 1700/2600 by now, what were you waiting for?
 

Hans Gruber

Platinum Member
Dec 23, 2006
2,221
1,155
136
Correct me if I am wrong but the 2700x is fully OC'd as is? Does it have anything to OC. I ask because I am wondering if these Zen 2 chips will have a good deal of headroom for OCing. What happened to 5ghz? Is that still in the cards?
 

Markfw

Moderator Emeritus, Elite Member
May 16, 2002
25,752
14,781
136
I agree,that's exactly what I said.
These are good upgrades for people with something older than a 4770k's overclocked or 1700x overclocked.
My point was if you still had a 2600k or bulldozer CPU and didn't upgrade to a 8700k/9700k or Ryzen 1700/2600 by now, what were you waiting for?
Thats not what you said....
 

beginner99

Diamond Member
Jun 2, 2009
5,223
1,598
136
So with this Intel's ST advantage is (essentially, practically, I mean who will get 9900KS instead?) also gone.

In cinebench which we all know is the perfect scenario. We also don't know how AMD got their 9900k numbers, eg. limited to 95W or the out of the box OC on most MB. I'm just managing expectations. 9900k will still beat the 3800x in 144 hz gaming at 1080p.

Don't get me wrong. chances are high I will now finally upgrade. preferably 3900x but I will wait and see the impact of the dual-chiplets on gaming.
 
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itsmydamnation

Platinum Member
Feb 6, 2011
2,867
3,418
136
In cinebench which we all know is the perfect scenario. We also don't know how AMD got their 9900k numbers, eg. limited to 95W or the out of the box OC on most MB. I'm just managing expectations. 9900k will still beat the 3800x in 144 hz gaming at 1080p.

Don't get me wrong. chances are high I will now finally upgrade. preferably 3900x but I will wait and see the impact of the dual-chiplets on gaming.
Go check the r20 score Anand tech posted both the 9900k and then zen2 score
 

coercitiv

Diamond Member
Jan 24, 2014
6,400
12,849
136
In cinebench which we all know is the perfect scenario. We also don't know how AMD got their 9900k numbers, eg. limited to 95W or the out of the box OC on most MB. I'm just managing expectations.
Agree on managing expectations but as far as not knowing 9900K power settings, it doesn't matter anymore: the AMD product achieved ST performance parity in CB 20 as well, meaning whatever uplift the Intel product gets from unlocked TDP will be met by equal uplift from AMD product with unlocked TDP.
 

DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
21,808
11,163
136
I think I just broke multi-quote. Oh well. Moving right along . . .

Note the comma. Without it it would imply with performance as well. With it, it seems to mean that the 9900k uses as much power and that (the 9900k) has the performance as well. I had to re-read that line too.

You and your punctuation.

I still don't think FX9590 and 9900k deserve to be compared to one another, but damn them 9900k chips do get hot. And the 9900KS? Oh my. Zen2 to the rescue!

The current Ryzen 5 2600 (6C/12T, 65W TDP) maxes out at 3.9 GHz with a base clock of 3.4 GHz. Based on what we've heard so far about the architecture, it looks like Ryzen 5 3600 should boast 10-15% better IPC, better SMT, and far superior AVX2 performance. If this rumor is correct and they can add +200 MHz to the base clock and +300 MHz to the boost clock on top of that while maintaining the same TDP, I'd definitely consider that to be a decent generational gain.

It's an amazing gain, and it makes a lot of Intel and AMD chips look kind of silly in comparison. I wouldn't take any Intel 6c chips seriously anymore, and I'd be skeptical of some of AMD's older 8c chips from 2017, like a stock 1700. Hell that thing, overclocked, might give my 4 GHz 1800x a run for its money!

I wonder how much power the i9 9900KS draws at stock...
Of course, we know they'll claim 95w TDP.
BTW, 9900KS is 5.0GHz all core at all times.

Probably 210-220W.

The real question. Do I want an 8 core, 12 core or 16 core Zen 2 CPU when they are released into the wild?

16c is off the table, as you now know. The real question is, 12c vs 8c? And which one to get? 3700x may have all the same OC headroom as the 3800x, so that may be the smart choice. If we go by the example of the 2700 vs 2700x, the 2700x has maybe 100 MHz more OC headroom. That's it. 12c part probably hits the same clocks if you can cool it. 16c comes later, I'm sure.

I don't understand why AMD would focus on X570 at Computex. Surely the mobo manufacturers should be doing that...? Why would they use their keynote to effectively promote companies that would sell you a mobo regardless of your choice of CPU?

I know, right?

If Lisa Su herself had revealed those specs back in September 2018, with a July 2019 release, then would we be calling her a fraud if they didn't exactly match what was revealed?

Investors might like to have a word with her about that. But she didn't do that so, we'll never know.

I tried to tell people in the other thread that the prices in the 'leak' were a bridge too far, but a couple of people kept saying margins didn't matter and it was all about winning marketshare.

The only thing that surprises me here is that there isn't yet an 8c option for $250-$279 or so. Otherwise, they did exactly as I predicted: stuck to the $500 price point for their top-of-the-line chip, and moved prices on down from there. If they're guilty of anything, it's of having too few SKUs at launch.

Also where is the 5.1Ghz 16C?

It was a toss-up as to whether a 16c part would even launch at this point. 16c comes later, probably for $550 or so. Maybe $599 but we'll see. I doubt it'll have turbo clocks higher than the 3900x.

Looks like they still have no competitor for the 2080 and 2080ti.

Predictable. I'm surprised they're even taking a swing at the 2070.

Double ouch when you consider how much IPC intel has lost since Zen release. If concrete, this puts AMD solidly in the IPC lead.

That's only for people who run all those mitigations, in workloads where they make a difference. I wouldn't be surprised to find a lot of Intel users disabling those wherever possible. But yeah, when you think about it, if this is what Intel has to face from Rome in the server room . . . whew.

I'm struggling to understand the difference between the 3700x and the 3800x other than a 100mhz increase.

$100, and a more-aggressive boost map on the 3800x. 3800x also gets a bigger cooler.

$499, makes their own $399 price point look bad.

It kind of does. I think they should have lowered the 3700x and 3800x by about $50. AMD is getting a bit greedy. Either that, or there should be a 3700 non-X SKU for $279. Remember that they're expecting most buyers to use the default behavior of the chip, rather than to overclock the things. For enthusiasts, the 3800x may not be a great buy.

The 3800X is targeted at the 9900K there is really no much more to add to that, to me it runs at 4.5Ghz ALL CORES, and thats what was needed to match 9900K. This is why they avoided to pit the 3700X vs the 9900K in Cinebench, it probably has a much lower ACT turbo.

They did not wanted to launch a 16C -yet-, they also avoided to talk about anything lower than 8C, what is strange.

Agreed on why they priced the 3800x and 3700x the way they did. I think the 6c parts are on their site now?

Who buys these cpu's? If a person has a 8700k,9600k,9700k,9900k, ryzen 2600 or 2700, this is not a good upgrade, is it? Not in my opinion.

You must be out of your mind. There are plenty of users out there, like me, that have a ph4t HSF or AiO that can push an R7 3700x to 4.5 GHz static and ruin all of those chips. Only the 9900k would run anywhere near it, at 210W or higher. 8700k? 9700k? Seriously? No! Even the 9700k is going to look bad. And a 2600? I have an 1800x @ 4.0 GHz and I will not hesitate to upgrade. The question is, 3700x or 3900x? I am undecided.

The 12 core is cool but we really don't need 12 cores to game for another 2 years.

Some of us prefer to be ahead of the curve.

Ryzen 4 and Intel 7nm with be here by then.

We all better hope Intel 7nm will be here by then. 14nm is getting pretty embarrassing.

I guess if you still have a bulldozer or sandy bridge system it's a great time to upgrade but I suspect anyone that has upgraded in the past 3 or so years will not find Ryzen 3700 that appealing.

Or Haswell, or Broadwell, or the majority of Skylake/Kabylake/CoffeeLake. You think a 6700k owner wouldn't upgrade? Why not?!?! A 3700x in enthusiast hands will be fantastic.

It's all fun and games until Intel releases something on or before the Zen 2 release date. Yes, it's all over for intel! That is too funny. I am pulling for AMD but there is more than a month to go.

What is Intel going to release? 10c Comet Lake? They haven't got anything left.

Correct me if I am wrong but the 2700x is fully OC'd as is? Does it have anything to OC. I ask because I am wondering if these Zen 2 chips will have a good deal of headroom for OCing. What happened to 5ghz? Is that still in the cards?

2700x usually settles at all-core turbo of 4.05 GHz or so. Single-core can go up to maybe 4.35GHz, or possibly higher if under insane cooling. All-core static overclocks of the 2700x usually top out at around 4.3 GHz which buys you more performance in MT tasks, but very little in tasks where XFR can do its work. So the reasonable expectation for most of these Zen2 chips is that all-core static OCs will top out at around 4.5 GHz, maybe higher, we don't know. The veteran's choice will be the 3700x for its low(er) MSRP. Might have to go higher on the voltage to hit 4.5 GHz than a 3800x or 3900x, though.

Agree on managing expectations but as far as not knowing 9900K power settings, it doesn't matter anymore: the AMD product achieved ST performance parity in CB 20 as well, meaning whatever uplift the Intel product gets from unlocked TDP will be met by equal uplift from AMD product with unlocked TDP.

Exactly! For those of us who like to tweak things, put a 3800x (or maybe 3700x) on a good board with a solid PSU and nice cooling, and watch the feathers fly.
 

lobz

Platinum Member
Feb 10, 2017
2,057
2,856
136
In cinebench which we all know is the perfect scenario. We also don't know how AMD got their 9900k numbers, eg. limited to 95W or the out of the box OC on most MB. I'm just managing expectations. 9900k will still beat the 3800x in 144 hz gaming at 1080p.

Don't get me wrong. chances are high I will now finally upgrade. preferably 3900x but I will wait and see the impact of the dual-chiplets on gaming.
Actually, the new CB 20 was not that good of a case for AMD...
 

amd6502

Senior member
Apr 21, 2017
971
360
136
Ryzen 7 3700X: 8C/16T, 3.6/4.4 GHz, 65W TDP, beats i7-9700K in Cinebench R20 (and by a pretty good margin). According to Lisa Su, single-threaded performance is about equal to "our competitor", and multi-threaded performance about 28% better.

Ryzen 7 3800X: 8C/16T, 3.9/4.5 GHz, 105W TDP (that's a lot more TDP for not much more clocks - maybe better/more turbo?...) - Lisa Su says this is the ultimate 8-core CPU, and it's being put up against the 9900K in PUBG where both processors are about the same.

Ryzen 9 family - showing off a package with both chiplets populated

Ryzen 9 3900X: 12C/24T, 3.8/4.6 GHz, 105W TDP. Positioned against HEDT i9-9920X, beats it in Blender. Lisa Su noted no compromise on gaming performance (due to the high ST clock rate)

Ryzen 7 3700X: $329
Ryzen 7 3800X: $399
Ryzen 9 3900X: $499

Release date 7/7 (as rumored)

Wow that was a nice presentation and a good R7 and R9 launch. So it looks like you can indeed pump ~90W sustained through a single chiplet. Sadly, no iGPU, but that was a long shot anyway.

IPC surprised while 7nm turns out to be no panacea for the 5GHz barrier (don't retire your FX 9590 just yet). For that, I think we need to wait for 7nm+ or 6nm (Zen3).

As for the 16c parts, it should be in the works. Over the next four months they likely will be accumulating stock of the super elite bins for another 100MHz increase to a 4.7GHz boost 16c/32t. That is quite a good AM4 upgrade.

Guess: elite bin 16c at $800 and medium-high bin 16c at $640.

The launch prices look good. For higher end parts $300-$600, a 10% difference between list and retail prices ($30 to $60) is almost taken for granted. So 8c for $300 and 12c for $540, should make for a very good amount of volume.


So it looks like all the Zen2 parts have XFR enabled, except the low bin 3600. If that low bin part is $200 or just under, I'd consider it as a very nice side grade from FX 8300 for an SFF cube build (quadruple the L3, and per core it's quadruple FPU power. )

All Zen2's listed above seem to have have full L3 cache of 32MB/chiplet. So likely any L3 defects get binned as 4c chiplet products (Likely 4c/8t R5) that are priced near the 3400g.
 
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Blockheadfan

Member
Feb 23, 2017
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55
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Who buys these cpu's? If a person has a 8700k,9600k,9700k,9900k, ryzen 2600 or 2700, this is not a good upgrade, is it? Not in my opinion.
The 12 core is cool but we really don't need 12 cores to game for another 2 years.
Ryzen 4 and Intel 7nm with be here by then.
I guess if you still have a bulldozer or sandy bridge system it's a great time to upgrade but I suspect anyone that has upgraded in the past 3 or so years will not find Ryzen 3700 that appealing.

Current is not 3 years old my friend.

Sorry If I'm missing something obvious here but the 8700K is the oldest CPU you mentioned correct? Which was released in Oct 2017? (Ryzen 2xxx was April 2018). So that's currently ~19 months old and will be two years old in ~5 months? Using the "current" Coffee Lake architecture and "current" but tweaked 14nm process? So you cherry picked the oldest processor you mentioned and fudged the numbers by ~17 months.
 
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IntelUser2000

Elite Member
Oct 14, 2003
8,686
3,785
136
IPC surprised while 7nm turns out to be no panacea for the 5GHz barrier (don't retire your FX 9590 just yet). For that, I think we need to wait for 7nm+ or 6nm (Zen3).

It won't happen.

AMD has hinted that 7nm and future generations need significant work just to make it not regress on the clock speed, nevermind gaining it!
 

exquisitechar

Senior member
Apr 18, 2017
666
904
136
Lisa is raising those ASPs and holding back that 16 core the moment AMD is in the dominant position, heh. Still excellent CPUs, though.

Overall, performance wise, it looks like my expectations are met. No big surprises there. I was hoping the prices would be a bit lower, but there's nothing surprising there, either. I hope all the YTers that were so sure about 5GHz haven't ended up making people disappointed.
In cinebench which we all know is the perfect scenario. We also don't know how AMD got their 9900k numbers, eg. limited to 95W or the out of the box OC on most MB. I'm just managing expectations. 9900k will still beat the 3800x in 144 hz gaming at 1080p.

Don't get me wrong. chances are high I will now finally upgrade. preferably 3900x but I will wait and see the impact of the dual-chiplets on gaming.
They used CB R20, so I'm not complaining. Looks like they got a solid 10-15% increase per clock compared to Zen+ in that. And yeah, it'll be behind in gaming, but I don't care.
So it looks like all the Zen2 parts have XFR enabled, except the low bin 3600. If that low bin part is $200 or just under, I'd consider it as a very nice side grade from FX 8300 for an SFF cube build (quadruple the L3, and per core it's quadruple FPU power. ).
Side grade is an understatement. That 3600 will be a little beast.
 
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DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
21,808
11,163
136
Actually, the new CB 20 was not that good of a case for AMD...

It's a poor choice on Summit Ridge and Pinnacle Ridge because AVX2. Matisse has full support for AVX2 with 256-bit FMACs. No problems there.

So it looks like all the Zen2 parts have XFR enabled, except the low bin 3600. If that low bin part is $200 or just under, I'd consider it as a very nice side grade from FX 8300 for an SFF cube build (quadruple the L3, and per core it's quadruple FPU power. )

R5 3600 should wipe the floor with an 8300 in every possible metric, especially if you are willing to tune it (which is what you were supposed to do with FX 8300s, FX8320es, etc.). That's no moon sidegrade, it's a space station an upgrade!

Lisa is raising those ASPs

Not really. They're back at 2017 levels.

R7 1800x: $499
R9 3900x: $499

R7 1700x: $399
R7 3800x: $399

R7 1700: $329
R7 3700x: $329

I would prefer they had an 8c SKU closer in price to the R7 2700 but maybe the 3700x will take that spot after 6 months or so. We'll see.
 
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swilli89

Golden Member
Mar 23, 2010
1,558
1,181
136
I would agree, but haswell is 3 years old like I said.
For gaming and at 1440p, a 4970 at 4.8 is still a good CPU. On the AMD side a $200 2600 at 1440p is just as good.

No, on the AMD side a Ryzen 2400G would be just as good. 4 cores are 10-30% slower than 6+ core systems.

Let's not forget, had AMD not got its act together Intel would still be content charging $400 for quad core CPUs, and $300 for quad core Non-HT CPUs.

In years of reading this forum you've been consistently anti-AMD, just such an odd stance to have.

Make no mistake, Ryzen 3000 is a stunning achievement. Intel's 10nm woes are fully exposed now. Their 14nm+++++ processors just can't compete with a cutting edge architecture on a modern node.
 
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