PCIE 4.0 appears to be best at M.2 speed. My PC's are already so fast on X370 and X470 using PCIE3 that I can not see how it would benefit me,. I would wait for reviews, and decide for yourself. My gut says X470 will work fine for 99% of people.
PCIE 4.0 appears to be best at M.2 speed. My PC's are already so fast on X370 and X470 using PCIE3 that I can not see how it would benefit me,. I would wait for reviews, and decide for yourself. My gut says X470 will work fine for 99% of people.I know the X570 has not been released yet. Should I consider a X470 or B450 for Zen 2? Is PCI4 the only added feature or are there more reasons to get the newest motherboards when they are released? I have a B350 right now. Should I use that when Zen 2 comes out? It's the top of the line middle of the Road chipset. MSI Gaming Pro Carbon motherboard. It's got a 240mm watercooler. I could just pop in a Zen 2 CPU and see how the market plays out for 6 months. Thoughts?
PCIE 4.0 appears to be best at M.2 speed. My PC's are already so fast on X370 and X470 using PCIE3 that I can not see how it would benefit me,. I would wait for reviews, and decide for yourself. My gut says X470 will work fine for 99% of people.
Exactly. I have an RX-8 BTW, and its killer on the track. at PIR it will beat Corvettes on the corners, but they fly by on the straights. I don't need any more, than I won't pay for it. Cool is a kids game.You sound like the kind of guy that won't put a wing on his car for extra downforce because "I'm not racing it on a track". I mean like, but, those extra things are cool.
Is PCI4 the only added feature or are there more reasons to get the newest motherboards when they are released?
More and native USB 3.1 Gen2 ports (native as from the CPU directly, but maybe Zen+ already had them? not sure). Important part is the Gen2. Also the chipset is now linked to CPU with 4xpcie4 eg, double the bandwidth. So if you have lo'ts of drives or peripherals working at the same time that could help. But yeah, mostly it's not needed now. It depends what type you are. Do you keep your build for > 5 years? or do you update more often? The less you update the more a x570 makes sense for "future proofing".
I think it makes sense to stick with x370/x470 if you already have one, unless you have m.2 and video cards needing pcie 4.0. Fast m.2 drives and vid cards for it are still about a year off (I know, but really), and by that time we'll be thinking about ddr5 and new platforms.
I'm just looking at the x570 boards, and thinking the power usage/heat will be a little higher with no real upside.
I remember getting agp 8x when it first came out ... I think the difference was 1-2% in some games.
You sound like the kind of guy that won't put a wing on his car for extra downforce because "I'm not racing it on a track". I mean like, but, those extra things are cool.
I know the X570 has not been released yet. Should I consider a X470 or B450 for Zen 2? Is PCI4 the only added feature or are there more reasons to get the newest motherboards when they are released? I have a B350 right now. Should I use that when Zen 2 comes out? It's the top of the line middle of the Road chipset. MSI Gaming Pro Carbon motherboard. It's got a 240mm watercooler. I could just pop in a Zen 2 CPU and see how the market plays out for 6 months. Thoughts?
In particular Gigabyte has done an excellent job with the VRMs that powered our Ryzen 7 2700X with ease and also remained really cool, even under extreme load. The VRMs are from International Rectifier in a 10+2 configuration with 10 phases of IR 3553 for the Vcore which are 40A power stages and 2 phases of IR 3556 for the SoC which are rated at 50A. The finned heat sinks on the VRMs look the part and work very effectively.
I think it makes sense to stick with x370/x470 if you already have one, unless you have m.2 and video cards needing pcie 4.0. Fast m.2 drives and vid cards for it are still about a year off (I know, but really), and by that time we'll be thinking about ddr5 and new platforms.
I'm just looking at the x570 boards, and thinking the power usage/heat will be a little higher with no real upside.
I remember getting agp 8x when it first came out ... I think the difference was 1-2% in some games.
If you have a stable platform that is doing exactly what you want it to do, why pay out good money to risk destabilising things for no net benefit?
Excellent question. I'm trying to sort this out for myself. Consider this:
X370: There's only one "good" VRM config for X370, and that's the X370 Taichi. Only 12+4 out there. It's cheap, but . . . X370 has potential signal routing problems that can make it less performant than X470 or (presumably) X570 when doing things like overclocking RAM. And I'm pretty sure there isn't any X370 UEFI rev that supports RAM speeds above DDR4-4000. On top of that, the UEFI support for X370 Taichi is terrible. I own one, and I've done nothing but lose RAM clockspeed headroom with each UEFI update that either fixes some version of Spectre or supports Pinnacle Ridge or whatever.
Maybe the latest X370 UEFI revs will be great for Matisse and terrible for Summit Ridge. I don't know.
The second best board is probably the Crosshair VI Hero, but its 6+1 VRM config is not going to be suitable for the 3900x. It has proven itself for 1800x chips and UEFI support for Asus has overall been good. It might do okay for the 3700x and 3800x as long as you don't get too crazy.
X470: X470 has improved routing for better overall performance (especially from RAM) and a larger number of boards with acceptable VRM configs. X470 Taichi and Crosshair VII Hero are both available and sensibly-priced. Crosshair VII Hero has "only" a 10+2 design while the Taichi repeats the X370 Taichi's 12+4 config. There may be other suitable X470 boards, but those are the two I would look at, and again I think the UEFI support from Asus is likely to be better than ASRock's. I think the 10+2 config will be at least suitable for 8c chips, and maybe moderate overclocks on the 3900x.
There may be other X470 boards out there with 12+4 configs (I don't honestly know; too lazy to look at Gigabyte, MSI, Biostar, or anyone else).
edit: okay I got unlazy and looked up some others.
Biostar X470GT8: 8+4 phase. Some have praised the components, but for me, it's mostly a "pass". It's cheap though.
MSI Gaming M7 AC: 12+4 phase. Suitable, assuming you trust MSI's selection of components. It is MSI after all. Are they 60 amp VRMs? I don't know.
Gigabyte X470 Aorus Gaming 7 Wifi: 10+2. Again, look at the components:
from https://www.kitguru.net/components/...aorus-gaming-7-wifi-hurrah-for-proper-vrms/2/
40 amps? Cmon man. Not cool. Literally. I would pass on that one for Matisse. Crosshair VII Hero would be better.
If you're worried about power delivery, I think X470 has you covered as long as you stick to ASRock or Asus, along with the improved routing that made AM4 a more solid platform overall. So the question is down to UEFI support and proper support for high RAM speeds and high RAM allocations. X470 only officially supports 64 GB of RAM, but that may be more a function of the microcode and CPU than anything else. Drop Matisse in there with a proper UEFI update and 128 GB support may be exposed. Also I know my X370 Taichi just can't run DDR4 faster than DDR4-4000 at all, but is that limitation present on the Crosshair VII Hero or X470 Taichi? I really don't know (don't own either one). If you aren't planning on running high memory clocks, it may not matter to you.
It's gonna matter to me, because I'm taking this DDR4-4400 as far as I can.
I would not touch X370 for Matisse except for the X370 Taichi. And I would be very skeptical of the UEFI support on that board!
See above, I would ditch X370 in most cases. I know I am.
If you have a stable platform that is doing exactly what you want it to do, why pay out good money to risk destabilising things for no net benefit?
well i think most important is single die & dual die difference
OMG, 12 cores@5.0 ghz with better IPC ? Say goodbye 9900ksi cannot follow every reply in timesome late information:
https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=auto&tl=en&u=https://www.chiphell.com/forum.php?mod=redirect&goto=findpost&ptid=2000764&pid=42308041
1.single die, 8 cores, 4.7Ghz is generally achievable, 4.8 need some luck
2.dual die, 6+6 cores, 5Ghz is generally achievable
3.3800x is worse than 3900x at oc ability
4.sweet point SKUs 3900&3600
5.temperature wall 57C, good heat sink need
well i think most important is single die & dual die difference
But simply OC numbers don't tell a story about potential issues with chiplet to chiplet latency.
OMG, 12 cores@5.0 ghz with better IPC ? Say goodbye 9900ks
Edit: assuming this is all true
Mark do you have pictures of your various rigs in action? Like do you have a single big room where they are all setup? I'd love to see that.Also, I just assembled my SECOND 2990wx system, so I know functionality and I buy it.
From what I've read they're not identical though, X470 Prime Pro is good enough, but Strix X470-F does have better VRMs.I am using an Asus X470 Prime Pro because that was all Micro Center had at Zen+ launch.
It is 10 phase, same setup as X470-F Gaming, but, lame heat-sinks that get heat-soaked easily.
Not to go too OT, but they are all over the house (heat distribution) Under the dining room table, under the kitchen table beside my bed, etc.....Mark do you have pictures of your various rigs in action? Like do you have a single big room where they are all setup? I'd love to see that.
otherwise there would be no reason that a 6C enabled die would clock higher than a 8C when only one core is overclocked.
If 6C can clock higher than 8C with the same silicon this means that the 8C limitation is likely due to temperature/power and that the suggested clocks are for an all cores overclocking, otherwise there would be no reason that a 6C enabled die would clock higher than a 8C when only one core is overclocked.
I think it may be that the 12c part 6c are elite binned. I suspect they are elite binned with generally 8c working but the slowest pair of cores disabled.
When 16c arrives, I think there will be two versions, a high bin 16c near the price of the 3900x and an elite bin 16c that is hundreds more.