Speculation: Ryzen 3000 series

[DrMrLordX]

A320 has more right to support the 3000 series because motherboards are still in production,

Who is still producing A320 motherboards? What models?

@maddie

Here is the data I wanted to produce earlier:

Voltage 1.375v

4.0 GHz: ~145a peak, ~130a average
3.9 GHz: ~144a peak, ~121a average
3.8 GHz: ~142a peak, ~119a average
3.7 GHz: ~141a peak, ~118a average

Clockspeed 3.7 GHz

1.4v: ~144a peak, ~125a average
1.3v: ~126a peak, ~111a average
1.2v: ~116a peak, ~96a average
1.15v: ~105a peak, crashed

I generated this data using HWiNFO64 for monitoring and 1g runs in y-cruncher (Yukina/"ADX" binary) on my R7 1800x. I reset HWiNFO's timer a split second before the beginning of each run to make sure that my averages were not tainted any more than necessary. Sadly, I was unable to replicate the massive 152a number @ 4.0 GHz I saw the other day. I might get better averages from Prime95 since it does not end (y-cruncher has a factoring phase near the end that is not as stressful as the summing phase).

Anyway, as you can see, dropping voltage while maintaining clockspeed had a significant effect on peak and average current draw. Clockspeed adjustments at static voltage, not so much, but it's there. In theory, my 1800x could draw as little as 70a if I could just get vcore down to 1.0v, which is not possible on this chip (1.1v wouldn't even boot). Will Matisse behave the same way? Well, probably not. Unless you choose static clockspeeds, it will not sit at 3.7 or 3.8 GHz and stay there. It will boost all over the place, adjusting voltage as it goes. It's also a wider core. If I use y-cruncher to bench Matisse, I'll be running an AVX2 binary rather than the 128-bit Yukina designed specifically for Summit Ridge/Pinnacle Ridge.

 

[Markfw]

Maybe i was out of line when i told you you were defending a company, but you said that all people of my country are poor and judging what they cant and cant buy? Thats discrimination plain and simple. What do you expect?

The only thing AMD said was they were going to support AM4 until 2020, there is even a slide there that says "AM4 upgrade whiout changing motherboard", with a small print with says "subject to change" otherwise they would get sued over that, this includes all AM4, as far as i know all 300 boards are AM4. And they knew that was impossible because the manufacturers would not want it, you cant prove that they did meant that "not all boards were going to get supported", they never say that, there is not a single proof of that. Im saying you are wrong and telling you why, and you accuse me of trolling because of that.


From Argentina, If you ask the boss it will tell you that you are right, but i dont like that, this is why i push to have all options avalible, it would be a lot easier for me to do what others do. In fact since i knew A320 will get dropping i labeled all A320 as "not Ryzen 3000 support" and the 400s as "Ryzen 3000 ready", they didt not like that one bit, but i managed to convice them saying that im hoping to see a increase in B450 sales.



THIS. motherboard manufacturers does not want that, maybe if it was only AMD decision all 300 motherboards will get the upgrade, i cant know that. But AMD knew this, its not a new company, and still they dont said a thing. The worse thing here is that A320 has more right to support the 3000 series because motherboards are still in production, B350 and X370 production stopped when they switched over to the 400 series.

First, YOU are the one that said the wage was (x dollars, I don't remember). And I don't know what country you are even from, and I don't care, and I don't want to know.

And in your own words, its "subject to change". And MOST boards will work with Ryzen 3000 series, so they are still doing what they said. You are picking the cheapest motherboard, and trying to make like its a big deal, when that is a small percentage of the total motherboards. This is still trolling. Everybody here is sick of your complaints, but you won't give up.

 

[Shivansps]

Who is still producing A320 motherboards? What models?

That i know for SURE:

-Gigabyte is still producing the A320-S2H rev 1.1, in fact last year Gigabyte launched a "V2" that im not sure were they are selling that exactly but you can verify the launch date by the initial bios launch date, that is october 2018.

-Asus is still producing the A320M-K

-Asrock the A320-HDV.

MSI is the one that ive been told they stopped production somewhere in H2 2018. I have no info on Biostar or ECS, or about other models of Gigabyte, Asus and Asrock. What i dont know is how to prove this to you, this is what ive been told talking to their representatives that they come here once very month or so.

First, YOU are the one that said the wage was (x dollars, I don't remember). And I don't know what country you are even from, and I don't care, and I don't want to know.

And in your own words, its "subject to change". And MOST boards will work with Ryzen 3000 series, so they are still doing what they said. You are picking the cheapest motherboard, and trying to make like its a big deal, when that is a small percentage of the total motherboards. This is still trolling. Everybody here is sick of your complaints, but you won't give up.

I never said they were poor, i was explaining the economics of why someone may want to buy a A320 (Extra mem or SSD for the gap to the B450) and explaining why is not the same as in the US. And i did that because a user asked me to do so. What i do not understand is why the economics behind A320 has anything to do with anything, who cares, but it seem important to a lot of people incluiding you. Is not valid to argue that cutting A320 support is OK because YOU think it is worthless, the same as is not valid to say that cutting A320 support was bad because I think is was a budget option.

What i said, is that AMD should be bound by the promise they made, and the promise they made is this:

AM4, 2020, upgrade whitout upgrading motherboard. This is what they said, it cant be more clear than that. It says nothing there about not A320 or that not all motherboards or the cheapest will support newer processors as you are saying. Is hard to argue with the slide, you have to agree at least until this point.

Now it does says there that is subject to modifications, yes thats legal stuff so they dont get sued if things go wrong, is really cheap to say that AMD keep his word just because there that small print there. AMD did keep their word the best their could, but not fully.

But is not enterely AMD fault, the manufacturers were never going to allow this, i know, but AMD knew as well, this is why they should not have said a thing or at least make it more clear that they were going to "attempt to". You cant blame me for pointing this out.

 

[Abwx]

That i know for SURE:

-Gigabyte is still producing the A320-S2H rev 1.1, in fact last year Gigabyte launched a "V2" that im not sure were they are selling that exactly but you can verify the launch date by the initial bios launch date, that is october 2018.

-Asus is still producing the A320M-K

-Asrock the A320-HDV.

MSI is the one that ive been told they stopped production somewhere in H2 2018. I have no info on Biostar or ECS, or about other models of Gigabyte, Asus and Asrock. What i dont know is how to prove this to you, this is what ive been told talking to their representatives that they come here once very month or so.



I never said they were poor, i was explaining the economics of why someone may want to buy a A320 (Extra mem or SSD for the gap to the B450) and explaining why is not the same as in the US. And i did that because a user asked me to do so. What i do not understand is why the economics behind A320 has anything to do with anything, who cares, but it seem important to a lot of people incluiding you. Is not valid to argue that cutting A320 support is OK because YOU think it is worthless, the same as is not valid to say that cutting A320 support was bad because I think is was a budget option.

What i said, is that AMD should be bound by the promise they made, and the promise they made is this:

AM4, 2020, upgrade whitout upgrading motherboard. This is what they said, it cant be more clear than that. It says nothing there about not A320 or that not all motherboards or the cheapest will support newer processors as you are saying. Is hard to argue with the slide, you have to agree at least until this point.

Now it does says there that is subject to modifications, yes thats legal stuff so they dont get sued if things go wrong, is really cheap to say that AMD keep his word just because there that small print there. AMD did keep their word the best their could, but not fully.

But is not enterely AMD fault, the manufacturers were never going to allow this, i know, but AMD knew as well, this is why they should not have said a thing or at least make it more clear that they were going to "attempt to". You cant blame me for pointing this out.

It is written ".......without buying a new motherboard* "

The meaning of the * is stated at the bottom of the slide.

 

[JDG1980]

What i said, is that AMD should be bound by the promise they made, and the promise they made is this:

AM4, 2020, upgrade whitout upgrading motherboard. This is what they said, it cant be more clear than that. It says nothing there about not A320 or that not all motherboards or the cheapest will support newer processors as you are saying.

In the lower right corner, it says "Planned AM4 socket support until 2020. Subject to future roadmap modifications." That makes it clear that this wasn't an absolute guarantee. And anyone who knows anything about how motherboard manufacturers work should have known that long-term support for low-end boards was not likely to be in their plans.

 

[DrMrLordX]

That i know for SURE:

-Gigabyte is still producing the A320-S2H rev 1.1, in fact last year Gigabyte launched a "V2" that im not sure were they are selling that exactly but you can verify the launch date by the initial bios launch date, that is october 2018.

-Asus is still producing the A320M-K

-Asrock the A320-HDV.

And that means AMD is still providing them with the chipsets. Either that, or Gigabyte; Asus; and ASRock have unused remaining stock.

Good luck with your crusade to get newer chips working on A320. I still don't think those boards were ever meant for anything other than cheap one-shot OEM builds. Have your remaining users that want new chips upgrade to Zen+ or Raven Ridge, or encourage them to go B450 if they want something newer.

 

[JDG1980]

And that means AMD is still providing them with the chipsets. Either that, or Gigabyte; Asus; and ASRock have unused remaining stock.

Good luck with your crusade to get newer chips working on A320. I still don't think those boards were ever meant for anything other than cheap one-shot OEM builds. Have your remaining users that want new chips upgrade to Zen+ or Raven Ridge, or encourage them to go B450 if they want something newer.

I pulled up all AM4 boards listed on Newegg and sorted by price from low to high. Then I filtered on only new products (no refurb, open box, etc.) The result was that the very cheapest boards were two A320 boards ($59.99 each), but you can get a B450 board (ASRock B450M-HDV R4.0) for just $64.99 - only five bucks more.

I agree, it seems unlikely that many system builders actually bought the A320 to save a couple of dollars. Most builders on a budget went with the B350/B450.

 

[Shivansps]

And that means AMD is still providing them with the chipsets. Either that, or Gigabyte; Asus; and ASRock have unused remaining stock.

Good luck with your crusade to get newer chips working on A320. I still don't think those boards were ever meant for anything other than cheap one-shot OEM builds. Have your remaining users that want new chips upgrade to Zen+ or Raven Ridge, or encourage them to go B450 if they want something newer.

What i think it happened is that they needed to make A320 too good for what it was intended to be, either because AMD forced them or that they just re-used B350/X370 PCBs and components and the A320 chipset was not cheap enoght to make a diference. This is probably why they given up on A320 on some markets and it makes no sense to buy one in the US.

In the lower right corner, it says "Planned AM4 socket support until 2020. Subject to future roadmap modifications." That makes it clear that this wasn't an absolute guarantee. And anyone who knows anything about how motherboard manufacturers work should have known that long-term support for low-end boards was not likely to be in their plans.

It is written ".......without buying a new motherboard* "

The meaning of the * is stated at the bottom of the slide.

I know how small print work. That to you is keeping their word?

OK i promise to give each one of you one millon dollars*

*Subject to roadmap changes.


To me is not, the "everything can change" is a cheap scapegoat. Under that logic they can say wharever they want that it would be fine along there is a small print in it. And thats my point AMD mostly keep his word, but not enterely. But lets stop this there is no point in keep arguing this, i think the user below me got it right, most people here belives it was good enoght, i dont, this is down to personal opinions now.

 

[itsmydamnation]

Omfg I want to slap all you people cotinuing this a320 talk.

Don't let prefect get in the way of good enough. If your subbon enough to only view things in black and white don't be surprised when the result is to not bother and you can buy a new mb every generation.

 

[Tup3x]

Yep, this isn't mobo talk thread.

 

[Markfw]

Yep, this isn't mobo talk thread.

 

[esquared]

Come on guys, this is a Ryzen 3000 CPU thread in the CPU forum. Not a motherboard thread.
You may talk about motherboard compatibility but anything further is
just thread derailment.

If you want to talk about Ryzen and its motherboards, start a thread in the motherboard forum.


esquared
Anandtech Forum Director

 

[DrMrLordX]

We actually have a very nice X570 thread, in fact! Lots of good info percolating out there regarding VRM phases and other crap.

It looks like there will be a fairly large number of motherboard that can properly support even the 3900x. 12+2/12+4 configs abound. It doesn't mean they'll be perfect, but still, there will be options.

 

[Karnak]

16C inc?

 

[DrMrLordX]

16C inc?

No sign of it yet . . .

 

[lobz]

That i know for SURE:

-Gigabyte is still producing the A320-S2H rev 1.1, in fact last year Gigabyte launched a "V2" that im not sure were they are selling that exactly but you can verify the launch date by the initial bios launch date, that is october 2018.

-Asus is still producing the A320M-K

-Asrock the A320-HDV.

MSI is the one that ive been told they stopped production somewhere in H2 2018. I have no info on Biostar or ECS, or about other models of Gigabyte, Asus and Asrock. What i dont know is how to prove this to you, this is what ive been told talking to their representatives that they come here once very month or so.



I never said they were poor, i was explaining the economics of why someone may want to buy a A320 (Extra mem or SSD for the gap to the B450) and explaining why is not the same as in the US. And i did that because a user asked me to do so. What i do not understand is why the economics behind A320 has anything to do with anything, who cares, but it seem important to a lot of people incluiding you. Is not valid to argue that cutting A320 support is OK because YOU think it is worthless, the same as is not valid to say that cutting A320 support was bad because I think is was a budget option.

What i said, is that AMD should be bound by the promise they made, and the promise they made is this:

AM4, 2020, upgrade whitout upgrading motherboard. This is what they said, it cant be more clear than that. It says nothing there about not A320 or that not all motherboards or the cheapest will support newer processors as you are saying. Is hard to argue with the slide, you have to agree at least until this point.

Now it does says there that is subject to modifications, yes thats legal stuff so they dont get sued if things go wrong, is really cheap to say that AMD keep his word just because there that small print there. AMD did keep their word the best their could, but not fully.

But is not enterely AMD fault, the manufacturers were never going to allow this, i know, but AMD knew as well, this is why they should not have said a thing or at least make it more clear that they were going to "attempt to". You cant blame me for pointing this out.

I hate to be so blunt, but why are you arguing so heavily on an information technology forum, when you can't distinguish between the words 'socket' and 'chipset'?

 

[JujuFish]

No sign of it yet . . .

AMD has an E3 announcement Monday at 6 ET/3 PT. I suppose it's possible they held back the 16-core SKU to show it off with the 5700. Better be damn impressive gaming-wise, though, which I wouldn't expect from a multiple chiplet CPU?

 

[DrMrLordX]

AMD has an E3 announcement Monday at 6 ET/3 PT. I suppose it's possible they held back the 16-core SKU to show it off with the 5700. Better be damn impressive gaming-wise, though, which I wouldn't expect from a multiple chiplet CPU?

It's possible that we'll see the 16c chip Monday or Tuesday. I wouldn't count on it. The smart play would be to hold it back as a counter to Comet Lake or Rocket Lake, if Intel ever brings those to the desktop in force. Otherwise Intel has nothing but the 9900KS on the horizon. AMD need not fear that thing.

As mentioned elsewhere in this thread, the 3900x may actually be the fastest gaming CPU AMD has announced to date, if it does in fact overclock to 5.0 GHz as claimed. It would take a Skylake-derivative something like 5.6 GHz to give 5 GHz Zen2 a serious run for its money.

 

[exquisitechar]

16c 3950x with a 3.5GHz base, 4.7GHz boost according to videocardz. Same source as their Navi one...

 

[exquisitechar]

105W TDP again, slide looks identical to the 3900x one. Hmm...

 

[DrMrLordX]

Hmmmm 16c Matisse? That's gonna be expensive if 3900x is already $499.

 

[Zucker2k]

It's possible that we'll see the 16c chip Monday or Tuesday. I wouldn't count on it. The smart play would be to hold it back as a counter to Comet Lake or Rocket Lake, if Intel ever brings those to the desktop in force. Otherwise Intel has nothing but the 9900KS on the horizon. AMD need not fear that thing.

As mentioned elsewhere in this thread, the 3900x may actually be the fastest gaming CPU AMD has announced to date, if it does in fact overclock to 5.0 GHz as claimed. It would take a Skylake-derivative something like 5.6 GHz to give 5 GHz Zen2 a serious run for its money.

This is how pundits raise and dash peoples' expectations, folks!

 

[Kedas]

The advantage of the 6 core and 12 core is that they can disable the worst core in the CCX For the 8 core they need a perfect 8 core die so hence increase price or lower spec.

Everyone can see that these (3) dies aren't in the same bin class:
8 core 3.9Ghz 105W 2 CCX of 4 cores 3800X (and 3600X worst dies to buy)
12 core 3.8Ghz 105W 4 CCX of 3 cores, 3900X
So you reduce the clock by 0.1GHz and you get a 33% extra TDP to work with. (sure not)
8 core 3.6Ghz 65W 3700X looks to be a die that can be used in an 3900x 12 core CPU and are both the best dies to buy.
Based on die quality: Freq³ * Cores / TDP = Quality (to compare quality of the same dies)
3900X relative quality: 6.3
3800X relative quality: 4.5
3700X relative quality: 5.7
3600X relative quality: 3.5
3600 relative quality: 4.3
Note: TDP is a category these are not real power consumption so 5.7 and 6.3 could be exactly the same dies, these are guidance numbers of 3 parameters in to 1 so you can order.

Power (Watt) equals extra cooling noise, more dust, shorter lifetime so you should care about performance per watt instead of this extra maybe 5% FPS you get from an 3600X vs 3600. The best 6/8 cores are binned for the 3900X and 3700X

edit: 3950X 16 core 3.5Ghz 105W relative quality: 6.5
I really expected the 16 core to have a higher TDP (125W 3.6GHz) but they just decreased the clock.

 

[piesquared]

This is how pundits raise and dash peoples' expectations, folks!

Oh is this how it's done? Speaking from personal experience, or?

 

[DrMrLordX]

This is how pundits raise and dash peoples' expectations, folks!

So you don't think the 3900x will OC to 5 GHz on AiO/water?