Matisse is going to sell regardless of whether it's release today, a month ago, or four months from now.
Ah, good. Now we're at least a little bit on the same page. Matisse would probably continue selling for 6-9 more months if AMD wanted to stretch it. It's a good chip, and Comet Lake didn't do anything to budge it. AMD can pretty much duff around and launch nothing if they want to pull another Hector Ruiz on us. AMD knows this, and probably thinks they can get away with the same thing on Vermeer.
You're implying here that Zen3 will be a flawed product
Quite the opposite. If it does have notable flaws, it'll be that it's stuck on an aging platform with an aging memory standard. Otherwise, Vermeer will probably massacre everything Intel chooses to sell for well over a year within the same product segment. Alder Lake will probably show up in 2022, and Vermeer will be able to stomp Rocket Lake in most applications. What's stopping AMD from just refreshing it and continuing to sell it to keep the market interested in what may be the same product?
AMD will have the opportunity to update it by moving it to AM5, giving it a new memory controller,
maybe giving it a process shrink, update some firmware bugs that inevitably will be there, and other things? Or they can just slap some fresh paint on it and rehash it like they did with the uh oh yeah that
XT was launched at the same prices the non XT prices were launched at. You're infatuated with the non XT and XT lineup, specifically the 3900.
I don't think "infatuated" is the right word.
The only really good XT CPU was the 3600XT. Its' a pretty significant step up in bin from the 3600X. Otherwise all AMD did was sell the exact same product on the same process with no improvements at the 2019 price of what it was nominally replacing. It's like they wanted to erase a full year's worth of market depreciation. Lame.
Again, would you prefer a new product every 12 months with say 7-10% IPC increase
I just don't buy that scenario as being realistic or meaningful. AMD has different working groups for everything up to . . . Zen5 I think? The only really unexpected thing with Zen2 was the inclusion of a feature that was expected for Zen 3 (and I'll be darned if I can remember what it was, ugh). I severely doubt taking an extra two months to launch Matisse in July instead of May really gave the Zen2 working group the time they needed to bring in that feature. Do consider Rome and when it began sampling. AMD likely stalled on releasing Matisse to hammer out AGESA versions and other firmware issues, which unfortunately still popped up until AGESA 1.0.0.3ABBA.
Bottom line: AMD has given us no reason to believe that launching every 12 months would interfere with the underlying engineering efforts behind Zen3 or Zen4. AMD's decision to stop 12-13 month releases and lenghten their release schedule was and still is based on other considerations: product readiness and marketing. As we both know, AMD can keep selling Matisse for awhile so . . . why rush, even when Zen3 has probably been ready for awhile? Plus Zen3 potentially faces even more firmware problems than Zen2. Can't wait to see how it does on x470!
Like if they released this week? My only theory here is that AMD taped out a long time ago and has been stockpiling processors so they don't run into immediate supply issues.
That is also a potential issue. Milan and Vermeer will be competing for chiplets, and CPU supplies of Matisse in July 2019 were actually pretty short. It was really hard to get a 3900X for awhile there. Still, that wasn't bad at all for AMD, since it got the product out on the market, it let reviewers test it for themselves, and it drove demand for the product through the roof.
If this is the case, then Zen3 will see a healthy price hike over Zen2 launch MSRP prices.
I think that will happen, but then I've been saying that since AMD announced the XT launch this year so. We'll see.
If Zen3+/Warhol is merely a shrink to 5nm without any improvements apart from energy efficiency and works on all the boards that Zen3 is capable of working on, then I don't see why it wouldn't be real. If it's anything significant, such as USB4, DDR5, et al. then I doubt AMD won't take the chance to release two different chipsets, pocketing money, pissing off consumers, and helping AIB partners make more money.
A few points to consider: Mobo OEMs now rely on AMD for the sales they once got off Intel. And look at what Intel did with chipset updates. Z170, Z270, Z390, Z490, blah blah blah. Now AMD is the hotness and OEMs need to sell boards. I am not suggesting at all that Warhol - if real! - will have its own chipset. I think AMD would use it as a pipecleaner for:
5nm (maybe)
DDR5
Their new AM5 chipset/platform
All those early-adopter bugs will go to the people that sat out on Vermeer and instead buy Warhol. Then Raphael comes along later, using the same chipset as Warhol, and mobo OEMs offer refresh boards using the same chipset. Win for them since they get to sell boards twice, and AMD gets to debug their new platform as well as their new IMC. As to whether a hypothetical Warhol would support PCIe5 and USB4 . . . I can see USB4, but maybe not PCIe 5.0.
It's really just me saying "booooooooo" as an unqualified expression of disapproval. And it's hilarious hearing it if you ever play TF2.
There were some people stating on here their 3600XT performed better than their old 3600.
The 3600XT is binned at essentially the same level as the old 3800X, which is to say, quite well.
I agree, there will be no SMT4. Don't know where that rumor came from. Probably the same AMD fans that predicted 5GHz+ Zen 2 blowing away Intel is bargain basement prices. That stuff gets old.
That was uh. I won't mention him. But we had this one guy that was obsessed with it. And ARM.
Another leak showing evidence that Warhol is a thing...🤔
Not what I had hoped TBH. We will see how things play out.
Indeed we shall. I don't think AMD will want people to know about early-to-mid 2021 Warhol before Vermeer hits the streets.
I think the general thought pattern here is that AMD can’t get it together with 5nm. I actually share that thought mostly, though I had hoped that a pipe cleaner product (zen 3 port aka Warhol) would allow AMD to both launch an awesome product and get it’s crap together.
Do remember that Apple is soaking up a lot of TSMC 5nm. It'll be awhile before AMD can get any.
Heat density problems are a huge issue with 7nm and AMD has officially shown very little indication of a movement towards desktop 5nm.
Let's see what happens with Vermeer. Also AMD has shown very little indication of
anything. Leakers aren't showing us much!