I thought I read somewhere recently that AMD will use the 4000 designation for the laptop cpus and jump the desktops to 5000.
Is that for the latest release on October 6?
Is that for the latest release on October 6?
There is no release on October 6. But there is a Zen 3 event on October 8 where we sure will get to know some stuff either way.I thought I read somewhere recently that AMD will use the 4000 designation for the laptop cpus and jump the desktops to 5000.
Is that for the latest release on October 6?
We did? It's called common sense. The 1600AF was discontinued around February having sold for a long time. The 2700X still sells in droves. People will buy old stuff. You're confusing value with the need to in-place upgrade.Ah, good. Now we're at least a little bit on the same page. Matisse would probably continue selling for 6-9 more months if AMD wanted to stretch it. It's a good chip, and Comet Lake didn't do anything to budge it. AMD can pretty much duff around and launch nothing if they want to pull another Hector Ruiz on us. AMD knows this, and probably thinks they can get away with the same thing on Vermeer.
If it's flawed and falls short, it's a failure. Intel will not be on time for ADL in '22. They can barely produce enough 10nm+∞ they're on right now or are completing. Vermeer is dropping soon. If anything is to be believed, it will curb stomp CML, RKL and dare I say Alderlake. No one truly expects ADL performance to be good. The amount of people whom I've spoken to who think Microsoft will do right by amending their scheduler is almost nil. If AMD refreshed, they need to offer more performance and new feature sets, which is where @jamescox's theory comes into play. But even then it's a bit harrowing to think about. You can't just release a turd like XT where few chips benefited or release a Zen+ like build that mostly fixed bugs and issues with the platform at the hardware level with a mild performance boost.Quite the opposite. If it does have notable flaws, it'll be that it's stuck on an aging platform with an aging memory standard. Otherwise, Vermeer will probably massacre everything Intel chooses to sell for well over a year within the same product segment. Alder Lake will probably show up in 2022, and Vermeer will be able to stomp Rocket Lake in most applications. What's stopping AMD from just refreshing it and continuing to sell it to keep the market interested in what may be the same product?
Notice how the original chips are still being sold for their lowered price over the XTs? It's magical, isn't it? And, yes, you do seem obsessed over the XT. You complain about it whenever the topic comes up. I'd already mentioned the 3600XT is the one that benefited the most.I don't think "infatuated" is the right word.
The only really good XT CPU was the 3600XT. Its' a pretty significant step up in bin from the 3600X. Otherwise all AMD did was sell the exact same product on the same process with no improvements at the 2019 price of what it was nominally replacing. It's like they wanted to erase a full year's worth of market depreciation. Lame.
People will buy old stuff.
If it's flawed and falls short, it's a failure.
Notice how the original chips are still being sold for their lowered price over the XTs? It's magical, isn't it?
And, yes, you do seem obsessed over the XT. You complain about it whenever the topic comes up.
I just don't buy that scenario as being realistic or meaningful. AMD has different working groups for everything up to . . . Zen5 I think? The only really unexpected thing with Zen2 was the inclusion of a feature that was expected for Zen 3 (and I'll be darned if I can remember what it was, ugh). I severely doubt taking an extra two months to launch Matisse in July instead of May really gave the Zen2 working group the time they needed to bring in that feature. Do consider Rome and when it began sampling. AMD likely stalled on releasing Matisse to hammer out AGESA versions and other firmware issues, which unfortunately still popped up until AGESA 1.0.0.3ABBA.
With the exception of a 13 month processor gap from Zen to Zen+, which was a small refresh to fix mostly bugs, they haven't delivered a processor in a 12 month time span. And, truly, if Zen+ had been skipped, I sincerely doubt they could have delivered Zen 2 in a 12 month time span.Bottom line: AMD has given us no reason to believe that launching every 12 months would interfere with the underlying engineering efforts behind Zen3 or Zen4. AMD's decision to stop 12-13 month releases and lenghten their release schedule was and still is based on other considerations: product readiness and marketing. As we both know, AMD can keep selling Matisse for awhile so . . . why rush, even when Zen3 has probably been ready for awhile? Plus Zen3 potentially faces even more firmware problems than Zen2. Can't wait to see how it does on x470!
And, truly, if Zen+ had been skipped, I sincerely doubt they could have delivered Zen 2 in a 12 month time span.
Milan and Vermeer will be competing? Did you mix something up here? Milan is Epyc. Vermeer is Ryzen. The chiplets are the same. You seem to either ignore what's being said or stick your head in the sand.That is also a potential issue. Milan and Vermeer will be competing for chiplets, and CPU supplies of Matisse in July 2019 were actually pretty short. It was really hard to get a 3900X for awhile there. Still, that wasn't bad at all for AMD, since it got the product out on the market, it let reviewers test it for themselves, and it drove demand for the product through the roof.
Probably? Are we just pulling random facts out of nowhere now? What does probably mean to you? Finished validation? Taped out? Packages? Awaiting binning? Packaged and set for retail?Matisse was ready in May or June of 2019. Probably May. The rest of the platform might not have been, outside of x570 (and early review UEFIs were notoriously bad). But the chips themselves? Yeah, they were good to go. Blame the firmware team and a desire to stall.
Historically, Intel has always done that with motherboards. It's not a new thing they've done in the last decade. Sometimes they have two processors generations on a single chipset. Sometimes.A few points to consider: Mobo OEMs now rely on AMD for the sales they once got off Intel. And look at what Intel did with chipset updates. Z170, Z270, Z390, Z490, blah blah blah. Now AMD is the hotness and OEMs need to sell boards. I am not suggesting at all that Warhol - if real! - will have its own chipset. I think AMD would use it as a pipecleaner for:
5nm was already debunked by the Digitimes article translation I posted. Apple has booked 5nm throughout 2021, with AMD to follow first thereafter, at least that's how I've interpreted it.5nm (maybe)
DDR5
Their new AM5 chipset/platform
What makes you think there will be many early adopter bugs? Zen 3 supporting BIOSes began "shipping out" months and weeks ago throughout AIB partners. AMD taking this long of a cycle indicates they've become serious with bugs or are facing incredible difficulty. Though we also know ES samples of Zen 3 based products were spotted far before the tripe Igor put out.All those early-adopter bugs will go to the people that sat out on Vermeer and instead buy Warhol. Then Raphael comes along later, using the same chipset as Warhol, and mobo OEMs offer refresh boards using the same chipset. Win for them since they get to sell boards twice, and AMD gets to debug their new platform as well as their new IMC. As to whether a hypothetical Warhol would support PCIe5 and USB4 . . . I can see USB4, but maybe not PCIe 5.0.
It's really just me saying "booooooooo" as an unqualified expression of disapproval. And it's hilarious hearing it if you ever play TF2.
The 3600XT is binned at essentially the same level as the old 3800X, which is to say, quite well.
Oh yes, him. Sadly he's departed us.That was uh. I won't mention him. But we had this one guy that was obsessed with it. And ARM.
At a discount. AMD raised prices on old CPUs and people kept buying them. Matisse is just that good.
DDR4 is Vermeer's one flaw, minor bugs notwithstanding (will be interesting to see if Vermeer has the sleep/wake up problems that a lot of AM4 systems have). Do you think that will make it fail? Everything is flawed. Whether or not said flaws lead to failure is another matter entirely.
(it should be noted that Vermeer isn't alone in having that "problem", either)
I don't think "magical" is quite the word I'd use here.
It shows corporate strategy is changing, and we're starting to see more of the AMD from 2005/2006, albeit without the spectre of a resurgent Intel looming in the near future (honestly Intel looks completely hosed for awhile). So yeah you better believe that I complain about it. Question is, why isn't everyone else?
Because the 3600XT was good?
Please.
Old Core 2s are fine with a 2.5" SSD even if it operates at a lower speed. I wouldn't use even the fastest X2 today. In my entire lifetime of computing apart from the 90s where stuff changed often, I've only had one experience where a 2008-2010 era Intel processor, Xeon and I want to say an E6850 ran into an error where a required instruction set was not available and I couldn't proceed with the software I wanted to use. It was very niche software at the time. The Xeon I tried to run a couple years ago and the C2D was mid or late 2012. There's still old ancient 486s running non stop today for certain archaic systems.The road map for AMD was from Zen to Zen 4. After that is uncharted territory from their original road map. So they have two more generations of Ryzen to go. I have a drawer full of old AMD CPU's from the golden years. I still have a bunch of Core 2 stuff, not in drawers but actual working computers if that tells you anything about Intel.
You are directly contradicting what you posted.@jamescox New Digitimes translation on the twitters this morning. TSMC apparently stated 5nm is booked by Apple throughout 2021 and AMD is to follow thereafter. Seems to aid your theory that "Warhol," if legitimate serves to be a IO stepping stone on AM5, while the shrink to 5nm will occur in 2022 with Raphael.
Weren't those largely dependent on silicon lottery as opposed to having an easy 500-700 Mhz OC room?Ivy Bridge, Ivy Bridge E and Haswell E all did well with OC too.
Booked != Fully booked. Try again.You are directly contradicting what you posted.
"TSMC began production for 5nm in Q2'2020. Production capacity is almost fully booked by Apple till the end of the year. ------ This will be followed by products from AMD, Xilinx, Broadcom, Qualcom, Nvidia, and Apple's first in -house GPU for the iMac series in 2021."
Apple has a monopoly in 2020 not 2021.
You wrote, "TSMC apparently stated 5nm is booked by Apple throughout 2021 and AMD is to follow thereafter"Booked != Fully booked. Try again.
Nor did I say Apple had a monopoly. Nor did I imply as much. Apple could very well have 90% of 5nm in 2021 and that article would still be true.
Booking means to place orders. Fully booked implies all wafers are booked. I've used fully booked when phrasing Apple until today when that Digitimes article came out. Digitimes previously reported Apple would be using 3nm (or 2nm) in late '22 or mid '23, and I suspect for something due for a refresh then.You wrote, "TSMC apparently stated 5nm is booked by Apple throughout 2021 and AMD is to follow thereafter"
Seriously, this sounds like word games? Is 3nm out next year? Big surprise, of course they will using 5nm through 2021, so what, others will be also in volume production as TSMC is ramping 5nm quickly.
Yeah but AMD is not following after 2021. They will be following after 2020.Booking means to place orders. Fully booked implies all wafers are booked. I've used fully booked when phrasing Apple until today when that Digitimes article came out. Digitimes previously reported Apple would be using 3nm (or 2nm) in late '22 or mid '23, and I suspect for something due for a refresh then.
Ryzen "Raphael" is a 5nm chip...Yeah but AMD is not following after 2021.
Yeah but AMD is not following after 2021. They will be following after 2020.