How much does each 14nm and 7nm die costs AMD? The 8C bulldozer had a die bigger than 300 mm^2. Do current AMD processors have a much bigger margin, seeing as the dies as much smaller?
Is that graph comparing what the costs are now or when each node was introduced? Is 7nm expected to decrease a lot in cost in the next years?AMD have talked about costs on smaller nodes for the same die size. It's not pretty.
While they have been able to bump up margins, they weren't exactly known for there high margins before. They still fall behind Intel and Nvidia in that regard.
The bigger problem nowadays is not the wafer cost (which does increase as well) but the upfront cost for design, mask and validation (which has to be recuperated in the actual production first):How much does each 14nm and 7nm die costs AMD? The 8C bulldozer had a die bigger than 300 mm^2. Do current AMD processors have a much bigger margin, seeing as the dies as much smaller?
It's called market segmentation, would you rather only have 3950X and 9900KS as a buyable option?Is trying to make the costumer pay more the only reason Intel and AMD sell processors without SMT/HT? Are there chips that could be usable with SMT off that couldn't with SMT on?
Is trying to make the costumer pay more the only reason Intel and AMD sell processors without SMT/HT? Are there chips that could be usable with SMT off that couldn't with SMT on?
A video of the talk from which that is the slides:
When asked about what kind of performance gain Milan's CPU core microarchitecture, which is known as Zen 3, will deliver relative to the Zen 2 microarchitecture that Rome relies on in terms of instructions processed per CPU clock cycle (IPC), Norrod observed that -- unlike Zen 2, which was more of an evolution of the Zen microarchitecture that powers first-gen Epyc CPUs -- Zen 3 will be based on a completely new architecture.
Norrod did qualify his remarks by pointing out that Zen 2 delivered a bigger IPC gain than what's normal for an evolutionary upgrade -- AMD has said it's about 15% on average -- since it implemented some ideas that AMD originally had for Zen but had to leave on the cutting board. However, he also asserted that Zen 3 will deliver performance gains "right in line with what you would expect from an entirely new architecture."
The forthcoming SEV-SNP extension sounds like a significant addition at the very least, though I have little idea just what would need to be changed to support it.Taken from here
AMD Inks New Server CPU Deals; Data Center Chief Discusses Them and More
During a talk with TheStreet, AMD exec Forrest Norrod highlighted new supercomputer deals and an expanded partnership with AWS. He also suggested AMD's next-gen server CPUs will deliver healthy performance gains.realmoney.thestreet.com
What is Forrest hinting, an entirely new arch in Zen3? Was not expecting this, very interesting.
"Entirely new arch" can mean many things, probably not the term I'd use for Zen 3. But it doesn't matter, what matters is that he is strongly hinting at a large IPC increase, just like I had predicted based on rumors and some things that we know. Higher clocks for Milan are confirmed, too.What is Forrest hinting, an entirely new arch in Zen3? Was not expecting this, very interesting.
Zen 1 was about creating a competitive die and connecting them.
Zen 2 was about taking the dies and perfecting the connection for balanced and quick performance.
Zen 3 will probably about designing the core arch around the idea of using the now perfected connection. Probably room for improvement if the cores, ccx's (if they are needed) and CDD's are designed with IO die and IF multi-die connectivity from the beginning.
Unless my reading glasses have suddenly malfunctioned, IPC changes will not be as large as Zen2 produced. Also, I didn’t see where anything was said about large clock increases. The 7nm+ process just doesn’t offer that much frequency headroom."Entirely new arch" can mean many things, probably not the term I'd use for Zen 3. But it doesn't matter, what matters is that he is strongly hinting at a large IPC increase, just like I had predicted based on rumors and some things that we know. Higher clocks for Milan are confirmed, too.
I think one of the major architectural changes is the elimination of CCXs. Everything will be a CCD from Zen3 onward. Norrod didn’t specify‘micro architecture' changes. This could just be a matter of semantics given the target audience. Whatever changes we will see, it appears that Zen3 won’t be bringing the same level of performance increase as we saw with Zen2 (too bad, but realistic).
On what do you base this? Norrod literally says that Zen 2 was an evolution while Zen 3 is a "completely new microarchitecture" and also that it will deliver performance gains "right in line with what you would expect from an entirely new architecture." Also how AMD is adopting a "tick-tock" model and that Zen 2 is a tick while Zen 3 is a tock.Unless my reading glasses have suddenly malfunctioned, IPC changes will not be as large as Zen2 produced.
Not large. The clock speed increase will be marginal in most cases, probably especially for the high end Ryzen CPUs.Also, I didn’t see where anything was said about large clock increases. The 7nm+ process just doesn’t offer that much frequency headroom.
Forrest Norrod is the server guy from AMD there to talk about server chips. 8 core CCXes is not a change that would drastically improve performance on servers. For clients it most definitely is, but for servers? A nice to have, but by no means essential nor a large performance bump. There will be much more than that.
On what do you base this? Norrod literally says that Zen 2 was an evolution while Zen 3 is a "completely new microarchitecture" and also that it will deliver performance gains "right in line with what you would expect from an entirely new architecture." Also how AMD is adopting a "tick-tock" model and that Zen 2 is a tick while Zen 3 is a tock.
As a whole, Zen 2 obviously will not be matched in its performance increase, as it leveraged 7nm to double core counts and increase the clock speeds. IPC alone, however? I bet that Zen 3 will match the Zen -> Zen 2 increase or exceed it slightly.
Norrod did qualify his remarks by pointing out that Zen 2 delivered a bigger IPC gain than what's normal for an evolutionary upgrade -- AMD has said it's about 15% on average -- since it implemented some ideas that AMD originally had for Zen but had to leave on the cutting board. However, he also asserted that Zen 3 will deliver performance gains "right in line with what you would expect from an entirely new architecture."
Zen1 left some low hanging fruit on the table, which was implemented in Zen2; giving Zen2 a bigger than average boost. I'm not pissing on Zen3, restating the reasonable expectations set out by Norrod.
Norrod observed that -- unlike Zen 2, which was more of an evolution of the Zen microarchitecture that powers first-gen Epyc CPUs -- Zen 3 will be based on a completely new architecture. Norrod did qualify his remarks by pointing out that Zen 2 delivered a bigger IPC gain than what's normal for an evolutionary upgrade -- AMD has said it's about 15% on average -- since it implemented some ideas that AMD originally had for Zen but had to leave on the cutting board. However, he also asserted that Zen 3 will deliver performance gains "right in line with what you would expect from an entirely new architecture."
No, he's essentially pointing out that the Zen1->Zen2 increase will not happen.
However, he also asserted that Zen 3 will deliver performance gains "right in line with what you would expect from an entirely new architecture."
Fine, whatever. We are just going around in circles based on a couple of lines of text that can apparently be interpreted several ways. As usual, we'll have to wait and see. Maybe AMD is sandbagging Zen3 performance a bit; I suppose we can hope that that is the case.Zen1->Zen2 IPC increase was larger than typical of an evolutionary upgrade. Zen2->Zen3 is typical of an entirely new architecture. The only way I see to support your line of thinking here is to claim that the Zen2 IPC increase was not just larger than the typical evolutionary upgrade, but also larger than an upgrade in architecture. That is not what was said. It may be true, mind you, but that isn't what is claimed in the article
Some people were expecting that Zen3 will be something new.What is Forrest hinting, an entirely new arch in Zen3? Was not expecting this, very interesting.
Fine, whatever. We are just going around in circles based on a couple of lines of text that can apparently be interpreted several ways. As usual, we'll have to wait and see. Maybe AMD is sandbagging Zen3 performance a bit; I suppose we can hope that that is the case.