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Lifer
- Nov 14, 2011
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A bit shocked about the 8 CUs: https://images.anandtech.com/doci/15333/IMG_20200106_141346.jpg
Why? They're memory bandwidth bottlenecked, same as the APUs have always been.
A bit shocked about the 8 CUs: https://images.anandtech.com/doci/15333/IMG_20200106_141346.jpg
Faster memory and higher clocks.
4x32-bit LPDDR4X support at 4266 MHz.Why? They're memory bandwidth bottlenecked, same as the APUs have always been.
Total costs mister. Chiplets are a lot cheaper overall for this scenario. By AMD's own estimates for Zen1, they were 59% the cost of a monolithic equivalent.
andThese CPUs all support LPDDR4X memory, up to 64 GB, and AMD says that the infinity fabric is not tied to this memory clock. This helps the chip reach even lower power in its idle states, and the company said that they have rearchitected a good portion of the power delivery in the APU in order to be able to power down and power gate more elements of the SoC than was previously possible. AMD said that this decoupling of the infinity fabric and memory support, especially with both CPU and GPU accessing it, was made substantially easier due to the APU being a monolithic solution (with that in mind, it’s likely that AMD might not be going down the chiplet APU route any time soon). Also worthy to note is that AMD is saying that they have reduced the latency for parts of the chip to enter/exit idle states by 80%, and it’s this that helps enable the power gating in such a way to remain responsive. In previous products, certain elements of the design had to remain powered in order to be as responsive as the user required.
In terms of power, AMD is touting a full 2x performance per watt on the new 15 W CPUs, made possible by doubling the cores in the same power envelope and keeping the frequency high. AMD stated that this was possible due to +30% efficiency from the core and the SoC design, and +70% efficiency in the process compared to the previous products. Overall SoC power for the same frequency of the APU is down 20% as well, allowing AMD to push more out of the hardware.
Prices will start at $699, although that doesn’t state which processor/memory/storage configuration that would be. The battery comes in at 60.7 Wh, which Lenovo is stating should be good for 14 hours, which would be a sizeable uplift in mobile battery efficiency from AMD.
Agreed. Very nice performance uplift from clocks+faster memory anyway. If you want more GPU performance AMD will toss in a 5500m or whatever.For an 8c/16t that's ultra low power. Very nice. Any higher gpu power laptop will simply come with dGPU and have the iGPU just for long battery life ability.
8CU at peak perf watt freq will provide nice > 720p-hi settings ability.
For desktop SKUs they can run hot near peak perf freq, and the 8CU will match 12nm Vega 11 CU (and bandwidth would limit perf anyways unless using very pricey high freq DDR4).
Yep, Renoir IGP is 3mb... RR IGP is 1mbAnd potentially more GPU cache.
4x32-bit LPDDR4X support at 4266 MHz.
512 * 1.75 = 896 operations // 128-bit LPDDR4-4266 => 68.3 GB/s
vs
640 * 1.4 = 896 operations // 128-bit DDR4-2400 => 38.4 GB/s
Dali appears to just be a refresh of Raven2: https://images.anandtech.com/doci/15324/AMD CES 2020 Update_Client_Embargoed Until Jan. 6 at 6pm ET-page-028.jpg
No A-series in sight. It seems to finally be over.
Can't agree with that statement. Either do the math or use the yield calculators and see the % difference in usable silicon with aggregated small die vs monolithic one.That was only the case when yields were lower. A monolithic die with 8 cores and an IO die is by nature cheaper than chiplets. The packaging alone costs less, and there is potential silicon savings to be had. This is evidence by the fact they moved to a monolithic die for mobile. Also, there are now further indications from CES that the die will indeed be monolithic for consoles (or at least the Xbox).
Mind if I as for a source, that's pretty interesting.Yep, Renoir IGP is 3mb... RR IGP is 1mb
Depends if the double-precision is garbage like Ryzen 2700u/3700u. Basically being near 16x rate.Well now i can say this is a intentional GPU downgrade?
Nevermind, amd page is not mobile friendly... total L2 cache was on the same line of gpu coresMind if I as for a source, that's pretty interesting.
Awww.... that would have been kinda cool, if wasteful.Nevermind, amd page is not mobile friendly... total L2 cache was on the same line of gpu cores
512 * 1.75 = 896 operations // 128-bit LPDDR4-4266 => 68.3 GB/s
vs
640 * 1.4 = 896 operations // 128-bit DDR4-2400 => 38.4 GB/s
Dali appears to just be a refresh of Raven2: https://images.anandtech.com/doci/15324/AMD CES 2020 Update_Client_Embargoed Until Jan. 6 at 6pm ET-page-028.jpg
No A-series in sight. It seems to finally be over.
Well now i can say this is a intentional GPU downgrade? And im sorry but the "memory constrained" argument is just wrong, with my old 3200G i did some tests with a guy that had the 3400G with both at 1700mhz the 3400G was always better at 3200mhz DDR4.
Of course the 3400g will be ahead, but there are diminishing returns. This means the scaling of performance to CU count (or iGPU frequency) gets really really bad. It's hard to be 100% memory constrained, but 95% would be something like increase your CUs (or freq) by 50% and but you see only 5% to 10% performance increase (rather than a 50% performance increase that you would get if you're 0% bandwidth constrained).
It's pretty much what jpiniero says (Die size considerations & dGPU self-competition) along with the fact that this is a high end mobile oriented product.
A serious gaming laptop is going to come with a dGPU anyways. So the iGPU is there for general use and unplugged gaming only. You don't need 12CU-16CU for decent enough graphics at peak perf/watt frequencies; by having a much larger iGPU you might add wattage rather than reduce it. Also, for their smallest mobile socket, a 16CU APU might also exceed the socket size.
To target the smaller market of desktop users who want big iGPU/APUs they're better following up with Zen3 big-iGPU MCM. They can integrate a big GPU with the IO hub for MCM APUs while reusing the current GPU-less IO hub for MCM Zen3 CPUs. I don't think the Zen3 chiplet is all that far away.
The point is that the Vega 11 is already ahead of Vega 8 at high clocks even with DDR4-3200, Renoir will be capable of DDR4-4000+ in fact it supports LPDDR4X-4266... thats a lot, and also coupled with faster CPU cores there is no way that 11CU not to provide a significant gain. 8CU may make sence for 15W U products, but 45W H the H are a joke. And its definately not acceptable for 65W+ desktop APUs.
AMD Ryzen 7 4800U 8 / 16 1.8 GHz 4.2 GHz 8 / 512 15W AMD Ryzen 7 4700U 8 / 8 2.0 GHz 4.1 GHz 7 / 448 15W AMD Ryzen 5 4600U 6 / 12 2.1 GHz 4.0 GHz 6 / 384 15W
Of course the 3400g will be ahead, but there are diminishing returns. This means the scaling of performance to CU count (or iGPU frequency) gets really really bad. It's hard to be 100% memory constrained, but 95% would be something like increase your CUs (or freq) by 50% and but you see only 5% to 10% performance increase (rather than a 50% performance increase that you would get if you're 0% bandwidth constrained).
That was only the case when yields were lower. A monolithic die with 8 cores and an IO die is by nature cheaper than chiplets. The packaging alone costs less, and there is potential silicon savings to be had. This is evidence by the fact they moved to a monolithic die for mobile. Also, there are now further indications from CES that the die will indeed be monolithic for consoles (or at least the Xbox).
If they had no 16c desktop part I would agree, but since they have one and it obviously makes no sense to cut a 16c monolithic die down to 6c SKUs I'm pretty sure not having to tapeout two designs for 8c and 16c is more than enough incentive to stay chiplet. Also they will have new nodes to move to and continous optimization of this layout will have positive effects also on that.
The new Athlons are just salvaged/fused off Renoir dies. Dali is coming later.New Athlons may not be Dali. 15W TDP.
Uh, aren't they just RAVEN2?The new Athlons are just salvaged/fused off Renoir dies. Dali is coming later.
Or that, not a new die like Dali in any case.Uh, aren't they just RAVEN2?