Discussion Speculation: Zen 4 (EPYC 4 "Genoa", Ryzen 7000, etc.)

[Vattila]

Except for the details about the improvements in the microarchitecture, we now know pretty well what to expect with Zen 3.

The leaked presentation by AMD Senior Manager Martin Hilgeman shows that EPYC 3 "Milan" will, as promised and expected, reuse the current platform (SP3), and the system architecture and packaging looks to be the same, with the same 9-die chiplet design and the same maximum core and thread-count (no SMT-4, contrary to rumour). The biggest change revealed so far is the enlargement of the compute complex from 4 cores to 8 cores, all sharing a larger L3 cache ("32+ MB", likely to double to 64 MB, I think).

Hilgeman's slides did also show that EPYC 4 "Genoa" is in the definition phase (or was at the time of the presentation in September, at least), and will come with a new platform (SP5), with new memory support (likely DDR5).

What else do you think we will see with Zen 4? PCI-Express 5 support? Increased core-count? 4-way SMT? New packaging (interposer, 2.5D, 3D)? Integrated memory on package (HBM)?

Vote in the poll and share your thoughts!

 

[coercitiv]

That's all well and true, but the 25% I came up with relies on observed data from Zen 3 and 3D and an two assumptions about the effectiveness of infinity cache remaining relatively similar and Zen 4D being able to achieve the same clock speeds as Zen 4.

25% is already lower than 30% and the parameters you have used were arguably upper bounds (which is fine, but we need to acknowledge that). We have little reason to believe Zen 4D will be able to achieve the exact same clocks, even if it improves in relative terms. We also have no data to suggest the memory subsystem of Zen 4 (DDR5, bigger L2 etc) will offer the same relative efficiency to the computing power of the cores as DDR4+cache did for Zen 3. The early results from Alder Lake suggest DDR5 pulls ahead due to improved bandwidth and/or topology.

For example if we drop the gains of vcache to 11% and introduce a much smaller 4.5% clock penalty, we get 16% gains. I think we can both agree that 16% and 25% are just two possible scenarios, but they sure do make 30% look like a VERY optimistic take.

 

[pakotlar]

sigh* I donno man, I think he's a less agregious clickbaiter than the main tech-tubers (especially LTT and GN). honestly can't stand their channels.
Tom is likable and his broken silicon talks are enjoyable to listen to in the background. Adored was too until he was run off the platform...
...the rumormonger hating has always baffled me though

I used to like him, but man he seems so aggressive these days. Going after Ryan Shrout, calling him a liar repeatedly was deeply unprofessional, and felt like a personal grievance that he let get to him.

 

[bearmoo]

Allegedly a 7700x es sample

 

[nicalandia]

For gaming, 7800x3d will be a legendary chip. No regrets...

5800X3D is already Legendary..! The first one of it's kind. Future Game Console will surely take advantage of that and Games will surely be coded for it.

 

[maddie]

I used to like him, but man he seems so aggressive these days. Going after Ryan Shrout, calling him a liar repeatedly was deeply unprofessional, and felt like a personal grievance that he let get to him.

Ryan Shrout is a liar and was controversial back in his Pc Pespective days.

Calling a liar, a liar, is not unprofessional, its called speaking the truth. Unfortunately, we live in 2022, where lies are overwhelming us and its a sin to expose them.

 

[inf64]

View attachment 66539



Allegedly a 7700x es sample

Here is the video : https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1KV4y1W77z?vd_source=b1d7076cbe7eab656ccc9e2a8fb982c2

 

[lightmanek]

View attachment 66539



Allegedly a 7700x es sample

To put this in perspective, Ryzen 9 3900X overclocked to 4500 on CCD1 and 4300 on CCD2 gave me the same MT score. Memory 3660MHz CL16.

ST 527 at 4500MHz on Zen 2

 

[Joe NYC]

I used to like him, but man he seems so aggressive these days. Going after Ryan Shrout, calling him a liar repeatedly was deeply unprofessional, and felt like a personal grievance that he let get to him.

Tom (MLID) got burned hyping Arc, so he has some built up anger about being mislead into hyping it. (my hypothesis)

 

[gdansk]

View attachment 66539



Allegedly a 7700x es sample

AMD really needs to increase core counts if it wants to win MT benchmarks. Although the higher TDP should help the 16 core part quite a bit more.

 

[Kaluan]

BTW am I the only one who's reaaaaly curious how loads of L3 (see: V-Cache) could potentially benefit dual/multi-chiplet Zen SKUs? 5950X3D never materialized (at least so far), but we kinda know 7900/7950 will get "X3D" versions this time around.

PS: random tangent: I think one of the famous "twitter leakers" speculated Ryzen 7 7800X may be a 10C SKU (or a lower clocked 12C). And takers on how plausible that is?

 

[dnavas]

I don't think AMD will announce much about vcache SKUs until nearly ready for availability.
It'd tank sales. Which gamer would buy a 7800X knowing the 7800X3D is coming in 3 months?

What you could get would be to get a low-sku sale and platform buy-in, which would keep gamers on the hook for the CPU upgrade (vcache) and again for the Zen5 chip, allowing schedules to slip without concerns of sales loss to Intel. You put the vcache far enough in the future to convince people to buy early, discount the 7600 (say), but keep the launch close enough so people don't wait for RocketLake. So, yeah, you get leaks like this, but almost certainly nothing official unless RocketLake comes in looking very good, in which case it's a platform battle.
I'm not sure how much I buy into that level of conspiracy, but it's something to keep in mind when you read "leaks".

 

[TESKATLIPOKA]

Here is a comparison made by videocardz.

 

[Joe NYC]

PS: random tangent: I think one of the famous "twitter leakers" speculated Ryzen 7 7800X may be a 10C SKU (or a lower clocked 12C). And takers on how plausible that is?

If you mean graymon, I think that was prank or trolling...

 

[nicalandia]

Here is a comparison made by videocardz.

View attachment 66540

Sweet Jesus..! That 7950X Will be a Monster...!

 

[TESKATLIPOKA]

If these scores are true, then It looks very promising. Why? Because allcore boost shouldn't be only 4.5GHz.
I also have to wonder what was the actual clockspeed during ST test.

edit: 4.5GHz is just the base frequency and not the one this CPU was using during the bench. Just tried my own CPU in It, and It showed the base frequency.

 

[nicalandia]

BTW am I the only one who's reaaaaly curious how loads of L3 (see: V-Cache) could potentially benefit dual/multi-chiplet Zen SKUs? 5950X3D never materialized (at least so far), but we kinda know 7900/7950 will get "X3D" versions this time around.

In Games? No benefit whatsoever due to CCD topology, but on HPC Workloads the 7950X3D will absolutely murder anything else.. the 16C/32T Milan-X just Curb-stomps regular 5950X in Linux Benchmarks

 

[Det0x]

Spoiler: I'm too slow, was already posted

The score AMD’s upcoming 8-core CPU known as Ryzen 7 7700X has been revealed by Extreme Player, a hardware reviewer better known for various tests of Intel unreleased CPUs. Extreme Player managed to obtain a Cinebench R20 test result for this CPU, which is actually the only score revealed by the content creator.

AMD Ryzen 7 7700X scored 773 points in single-core and 7701 points in multicore tests. The sample features 8 cores and clock speed at 4.5 GHz as per Cinebench listing. This is 23% faster ST score than Ryzen 7 5800X from Zen3 series featuring the same core count, and 33% faster multi-core. In fact, it’s even faster than the flagship Ryzen 9 5950X SKU by 19% in single-core test.

The only CPU that faster is Core i7-13700K from Raptor Lake series which scores 814 points as per leaked benchmarks. This CPU offers twice the cores (including Efficient cores), in multicore test it performs 46% faster.

The 7700X is not the flagship Zen4 desktop CPU, though. AMD is to launch 7900X and 7950X from Ryzen 9 series, both expected to boost higher and feature more 12 or 16 Zen4 cores.

AMD is now set to announce Ryzen 7000 series officially on August 29th, so just a couple of days away.

 

[Karnak]

Dr. Lisa "sandbagging" Su.

 

[jpiniero]

More leaks

Err... did you even bother to look at the last few posts?

 

[TESKATLIPOKA]

Err... did you even bother to look at the last few posts?

It looks like he didn't, because If he did, then he would see the same thing posted by me.

 

[nicalandia]

The 7950X3D Would make a Monstrous Workstation CPU,

 

[Timmah!]

Here is a comparison made by videocardz.

View attachment 66540

So if 8core 7700x scores 7700, should we assume 16C 7950x would score double of that? Cca 15000? Thus about 1,5x more than 5950x?

 

[nicalandia]

So if 8core 7700x scores 7700, should we assume 16C 7950x would score double of that? Cca 15000? Thus about 1,5x more than 5950x?

Exactly. This round the 7950X in not being restrained....

5950X at ISO Speed is 2x Over 5800X for example 4.5 Ghz All Core boost.

 

[Saylick]

Dr. Lisa "sandbagging" Su.

At least now we know the magnitude of that ">":

https://twitter.com/x/status/1559457964230152193

 

[inf64]

Based on the latest leak: