Discussion Speculation: Zen 4 (EPYC 4 "Genoa", Ryzen 7000, etc.)

[Vattila]

Except for the details about the improvements in the microarchitecture, we now know pretty well what to expect with Zen 3.

The leaked presentation by AMD Senior Manager Martin Hilgeman shows that EPYC 3 "Milan" will, as promised and expected, reuse the current platform (SP3), and the system architecture and packaging looks to be the same, with the same 9-die chiplet design and the same maximum core and thread-count (no SMT-4, contrary to rumour). The biggest change revealed so far is the enlargement of the compute complex from 4 cores to 8 cores, all sharing a larger L3 cache ("32+ MB", likely to double to 64 MB, I think).

Hilgeman's slides did also show that EPYC 4 "Genoa" is in the definition phase (or was at the time of the presentation in September, at least), and will come with a new platform (SP5), with new memory support (likely DDR5).

What else do you think we will see with Zen 4? PCI-Express 5 support? Increased core-count? 4-way SMT? New packaging (interposer, 2.5D, 3D)? Integrated memory on package (HBM)?

Vote in the poll and share your thoughts!

 

[Exist50]

Well tbh I don't see a problem in "the better the cooling the better it performs". That's also nothing new. Slap a waterblock on your NV GPU and it'll clock higher due to lower temps.

I think absolute power consumption is a secondary concern to thermal density, particularly in the budget segment. The 7700x will probably be the one to watch in particular. If it needs a higher end cooler, that would hurt platform cost.

 

[Karnak]

Don't think that's the case since we're not talking about a $120 CPU. Also I'd say AiO are already pretty common in the DIY market as of today.

 

[yuri69]

Zen 4 did not target IPC but targeted frequency which inevitably brings power issues. Let's hope the Zen 4 team managed better than Bulldozer's...

 

[Carfax83]

People give Intel crap for having high power draw and high temps, while forgetting that the CPUs are factory overclocked and achieve frequencies well above 5ghz which is blisteringly fast.

There's no such thing as a free lunch so the old saying goes. Those who were expecting Zen 4 to have 170w max power draw at 4.7/4.8/5ghz all core boost with 16 big cores and active SMT and AVX-512 are smoking some powerful stuff.

This is exactly why Intel developed the efficiency core tactic.

 

[gdansk]

Zen 4 did not target IPC but targeted frequency which inevitably brings power issues. Let's hope the Zen 4 team managed better than Bulldozer's...

Nowadays even FX9590 Bulldozer looks rather tame in power consumption.

 

[Ranulf]

In initial reviews, Zen 4 will beat any corresponding ADL and Zen 3 model in performance and price performance.

We will see what happens when Raptor Lake is released...

Hmm, maybe. Performance sure, but not price/perf if the prices are legit as reported.

 

[rainy]

It really warms my heart, to see so many Intel fans worried so much about AMD./s






You need to post to the topic or don't post at all.


esquared
Anandtech Forum Director

 

[reb0rn]

I for one might get AMD also this time due avx512 and if it have better power use, but I do not hope for some drastic power save vs intel at all, also i expect intel to get a lot better in next 2 years vs AMD on that front

 

[yuri69]

Nowadays even FX9590 Bulldozer looks rather tame in power consumption.

Yea, 20 years ago people were curious about Radeon 9700's additional floppy power connector. It was huge back then. The TDP was <40W...

 

[Exist50]

Yea, 20 years ago people were curious about Radeon 9700's additional floppy power connector. It was huge back then. The TDP was <40W...

Iirc, one of DEC's early Alpha chips garnered a lot of attention for the "insane" power consumption of ~20W.

 

[gdansk]

I for one might get AMD also this time due avx512 and if it have better power use, but I do not hope for some drastic power save vs intel at all, also i expect intel to get a lot better in next 2 years vs AMD on that front

I'll probably buy Zen 4 and manually set it to operate at sane power limits. Depends on the pricing, as always, however.

And remember: If you're buying a CPU for gaming, probably should wait for v-cache.

 

[Rigg]

Yeah, it seems that things became bleak really fast. If the chips can perform well only under the best cooling solutions then this brings cost up even more versus Zen 3 and intel offerings. Let's hope the performance is there.

These leaks indicate a looming disaster for this launch. Bleak seems like an understatement. Something doesn't add up. It seems logical that even WCCFTech couldn't mess up a price leak this close to the announcement. At the same time, the hubris required by AMD to price 6 and 8 core models at $300 and $450 respectively (in a post Alder Lake world) also seems unlikely. My fingers are crossed that AMD have something up their sleeve here. A $300 8 core R5 and $450 12 core R7 seems like a much better match up against Raptor Lake.

 

[Abwx]

.......

. Those who were expecting Zen 4 to have 170w max power draw at 4.7/4.8/5ghz all core boost with 16 big cores and active SMT and AVX-512 are smoking some powerful stuff.

That s the other way around, those who negate such things could make millions in courts at AMD s expenses.

The 4.84GHz displayed on a CPU Z window seems to be the all core boost for loads like CB R23.

At this frequency it should perform 35% better than a 5950X and at about 153W.

 

[Joe NYC]

Hmm, maybe. Performance sure, but not price/perf if the prices are legit as reported.

Good point, we will just have to see the performance differential, and if the prices leaked are legit.

 

[Joe NYC]

I'll probably buy Zen 4 and manually set it to operate at sane power limits. Depends on the pricing, as always, however.

And remember: If you're buying a CPU for gaming, probably should wait for v-cache.

I think you would be hitting those power limits typically only when many of the cores are fully utilized. Not in typical gaming scenario.

So probably nothing to worry about - unless your usage profile is highly MT oriented...

And remember: If you're buying a CPU for gaming, probably should wait for v-cache.

That is actually my intention,

Also, with 1 CCD only, the power consumption is not going to reach the limits of 7950.

 

[Kocicak]

I believe that buyers of the new platform will face a lot more troubles than just possibly higher price of CPUs. These pioneers have their cash, courage and patience ready and will not flinch because of unexpected extra 10, 20 or 50 bucks here and there.

 

[Timmah!]

.......


That s the other way around, those who negate such things could make millions in courts at AMD s expenses.

The 4.84GHz displayed on a CPU Z window seems to be the all core boost for loads like CB R23.

At this frequency it should perform 35% better than a 5950X and at about 153W.

That would be bit dissapointing. I am mentally prepared for 5,1GHz all-core stock turbo in the likes of CB

 

[desrever]

Just don't buy Zen4 if it isn't worth the price. AMD will just sell them all as EPYCs. Doubt AMD even cares about desktop at the end of the day, its just a token launch to have something for anyone who is actually willing to pay the price. AM5 will be supported for a while so there will be an upgrade path so early adopters may be willing to invest on the platform.

Also Intel pricing is probably going to be higher too based on what Intel has said, they told investors they want higher margins moving forward. Raptor Lake is a larger die so expect higher prices vs Alder Lake.

 

[Mopetar]

Great article, as always.

Basically exactly my thoughts on Raphael. For anyone who has a modern CPU, this generation presents an extremely unappealing potential upgrade, especially when the long awaited Zen 5 is coming next. Expensive platform, expensive CPUs, expensive RAM, expensive cooling, unimpressive performance.

If you're on Zen 3 or Alder Lake then I suppose you may have a point, but anyone with an older system looking to get in on a new platform is looking at a pretty large upgrade.

AM4 was unusually long lived and I don't know if AMD will release as many generations of products on AM5, but if you know that you can buy a good board with an R5 now and in 4 years be able to upgrade to a significantly more powerful new CPU, that has some value.

Also, if thermals are going to be a major hinderance that doesn't bode well for Zen4 X3D.

I don't see why that would be the case. Caches aren't really hotspots and the v-cache die is stacked on top of the cache below so it's not trapping too much heat.

The limitations with the 5800X3D were due to voltages and the v-cache not being able to handle as much as the core. Another limit could have also existed since Zen 3 was already at the limits for AM4 and even though cache isn't too power hungry, it still does need some power that has to come from somewhere else if your system is at the limits.

It looks like AMD added headroom with AM5 and assuming they don't use all of it out of the gate and have fixed any issues that limited the voltage for v-cache, I don't see a reason why there's any sort of problem for the 7800X3D. If it is voltage limited again, it will run cooler, just like the 5800X3D which often drew less power than a 5800X due to the lower clock speeds.

 

[xilli_fiberbit]

What is the hell ?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1564338411762237440

 

[Mopetar]

I'd imagine AMD would be streaming it to the public. I usually just catch the highlights from live coverage and there's a link on the AT homepage.

 

[deasd]

Raichu posted this on twitter:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1564233283046875136

Supposedly 32T Zen 4 CPUz MT score (15645pts). For comparison, 13900K QS got around 16.5K.

It 's a ES. If you read carefully that CPU ID string which was being mosaic-ed, the fragmented black pixels fits into 'AMD Eng Sample xxxxxxxxxx Y', rather than 'AMD Ryzen xxxxxxxxx processor '

here's the examples:

3900X




ES 5700G

 

[Markfw]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1564289007772508161

All posts in CPUs require personal commentary. Not just a link. See http://www.portvapes.co.uk/?id=Latest-exam-1Z0-876-Dumps&exid=thread...f-current-rules-rules-updated-5-4-20.2332179/.

Asministrator allisolm

I went right to the article. Without testing anything or having an ES or QS, they make all these assumptions. I want to see a real test before I comment further. This is not a preview at all IMO.

This article: https://www.angstronomics.com/p/ryzen-7000-desktop-preview

 

[igor_kavinski]

https://www.amd.com/en/press-releases/2022-08-16-amd-to-host-livestream-event-to-unveil-next-generation-ryzen-processors

It's gonna be on Youtube, for anyone wondering.

 

[shady28]

I'd imagine AMD would be streaming it to the public. I usually just catch the highlights from live coverage and there's a link on the AT homepage.

They're supposed to in 2 hrs 20 mins. There's just no link available.

Anyone know when the NDA blackout ends, so reviews can go out?

Or is that not going to be allowed, since motherboards aren't released for two more weeks?