Discussion Speculation: Zen 4 (EPYC 4 "Genoa", Ryzen 7000, etc.)

[Vattila]

Except for the details about the improvements in the microarchitecture, we now know pretty well what to expect with Zen 3.

The leaked presentation by AMD Senior Manager Martin Hilgeman shows that EPYC 3 "Milan" will, as promised and expected, reuse the current platform (SP3), and the system architecture and packaging looks to be the same, with the same 9-die chiplet design and the same maximum core and thread-count (no SMT-4, contrary to rumour). The biggest change revealed so far is the enlargement of the compute complex from 4 cores to 8 cores, all sharing a larger L3 cache ("32+ MB", likely to double to 64 MB, I think).

Hilgeman's slides did also show that EPYC 4 "Genoa" is in the definition phase (or was at the time of the presentation in September, at least), and will come with a new platform (SP5), with new memory support (likely DDR5).

What else do you think we will see with Zen 4? PCI-Express 5 support? Increased core-count? 4-way SMT? New packaging (interposer, 2.5D, 3D)? Integrated memory on package (HBM)?

Vote in the poll and share your thoughts!

 

[gorobei]

AMD YT page is up

 

[Joe NYC]

If you're on Zen 3 or Alder Lake then I suppose you may have a point, but anyone with an older system looking to get in on a new platform is looking at a pretty large upgrade.

AM4 was unusually long lived and I don't know if AMD will release as many generations of products on AM5, but if you know that you can buy a good board with an R5 now and in 4 years be able to upgrade to a significantly more powerful new CPU, that has some value.

Agreed.

From old AM4, 5800x3d is the best bang for the buck
From Zen 3 - probably wait for next gen.
From Alder Lake - also wait for next gen.

For all older systems, AM5 is going to be a great upgrade. Probably still best to wait a few months for the dust to settle, prices come down a bit.

 

[Markfw]

Agreed.

From old AM4, 5800x3d is the best bang for the buck
From Zen 3 - probably wait for next gen.
From Alder Lake - also wait for next gen.

For all older systems, AM5 is going to be a great upgrade. Probably still best to wait a few months for the dust to settle, prices come down a bit.

I think you missed a few cases. My son has a 1700x that I gave him like right when Zen 1 came out. He does autocad and drafting for a living. He keeps saying its fine, but in reality, he would be much happier with a 5950x for what he does. So anybody doing any productivity work that has an AM4 motherboard, a 5950x would be perfect.

I am sure there are other cases also.

 

[Saylick]

Agreed.

From old AM4, 5800x3d is the best bang for the buck
From Zen 3 - probably wait for next gen.
From Alder Lake - also wait for next gen.

For all older systems, AM5 is going to be a great upgrade. Probably still best to wait a few months for the dust to settle, prices come down a bit.

So I was and still am planning a 4K gaming build for my brother and I think I am going to go with an AM4 system instead of AM5 for cost and platform maturity reasons. The question is: 5800X3D or 5900X? I am leaning towards the 5900X, but only because I suspect Black Friday will finally let me buy the 5900X at $299 or less at Microcenter + $20 off bundling with a mobo. At that price, I don't know if I can pass it up.

 

[Saylick]

I think you missed a few cases. My son has a 1700x that I gave him like right when Zen 1 came out. He does autocad and drafting for a living. He keeps saying its fine, but in reality, he would be much happier with a 5950x for what he does. So anybody doing any productivity work that has an AM4 motherboard, a 5950x would be perfect.

I am sure there are other cases also.

Is AutoCAD that heavily threaded? I always thought that Autodesk software was primarily single thread constrained?

Edit: Did some digging. Looks like AutoCAD has a few processes (emphasis on "few") which can be accelerated via multi-threading. Same with Revit. Seems like your son might be best served with the 5800X or 5800X3D?

 

[Timmah!]

Is AutoCAD that heavily threaded? I always thought that Autodesk software was primarily single thread constrained?

Its not that heavily threaded.

 

[Mopetar]

I think you missed a few cases. My son has a 1700x that I gave him like right when Zen 1 came out. He does autocad and drafting for a living. He keeps saying its fine, but in reality, he would be much happier with a 5950x for what he does. So anybody doing any productivity work that has an AM4 motherboard, a 5950x would be perfect.

I am sure there are other cases also.

I don't doubt that a 5950X wouldn't be a great system for many people. It doesn't become bad just because something better is available.

It's just a matter of what you might want to do down the road. A 5950X is pretty much the end of it for AM4.

Even if it's more expensive, getting in at the start of a platform can give you upgrade options down the road. If AMD committed to AM5 having the same support that AM4 got, I'd have few reservations of hopping in straight away even Zen 5 will blow it out of the water or something like that. I could still be happy in the knowledge that eventually I could toss in a more expensive Zen 6 chip and get an even bigger bump without having to replace the rest of the system.

 

[Joe NYC]

I think you missed a few cases. My son has a 1700x that I gave him like right when Zen 1 came out. He does autocad and drafting for a living. He keeps saying its fine, but in reality, he would be much happier with a 5950x for what he does. So anybody doing any productivity work that has an AM4 motherboard, a 5950x would be perfect.

I am sure there are other cases also.

If it involves a lot of multithreading, you can get a great deal on 5950. I have seen $499 in the US.

If his work does not involve heavy multithreading, 5800x3d will be faster, use less power and $100 less at $399.

 

[Saylick]

Take with a BIG grain of salt for now. Source:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1564361269620228096

 

[IronLynx]

Any info if those slides are true?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1564361269620228096

 

[Joe NYC]

So I was and still am planning a 4K gaming build for my brother and I think I am going to go with an AM4 system instead of AM5 for cost and platform maturity reasons. The question is: 5800X3D or 5900X? I am leaning towards the 5900X, but only because I suspect Black Friday will finally let me buy the 5900X at $299 or less at Microcenter + $20 off bundling with a mobo. At that price, I don't know if I can pass it up.

I think it is going to be bumpy for AM5. B650 boards will offer much better values for non-extreme build, and they are going to be out maybe a month later.

They may be out by Black Friday, but the deals for AM4 will be much better.

For gaming, 5800x3d is going to offer better results, vs. 5900, but for a little extra money.

 

[Markfw]

If it involves a lot of multithreading, you can get a great deal on 5950. I have seen $499 in the US.

If his work does not involve heavy multithreading, 5800x3d will be faster, use less power and $100 less at $399.

He uses a variety is things. The 5950x is 450 OBO on ebay right now. Also $475 open box. He does also use revit. While it may not use all the threads today, what if his company upgrades ? Its best to be prepared. Its free to him, as I take care of all his computer upgrades.

Edit, as for those slides, I am still dying to see real power usage, as 170 watt TDP I took as max power, others say its that *1.35 or 230. Probably have to wait for benchmarks.

 

[rainy]

If performance gains and prices from those slides are real or at least close to reality, Zen 4 looks pretty good.

 

[AtenRa]

Axaxaxa 7600X @ $299 , this is DOA with those new MB prices and DDR5

 

[Markfw]

Axaxaxa 7600X @ $299 , this is DOA with those new MB prices and DDR5

I would say wait until motherboards are out. If money is that much of a problem, there is always Zen 3.

 

[nicalandia]

Any info if those slides are true?

100% Legit..

 

[inf64]

LoL if slides are true I nailed my perf. estimate like 100%

 

[Karnak]

+~13% IPC
+~16% max Boost

= +6% perf in Borderlands 3 and +13% perf in CS:GO?

Yeah, sure. But nice try.

 

[krumme]

IPC is meager for a new node, yet they manage 5.7GHz Fmax. Crazy. Their team optimizing for frequency is on a roll all over their portfolio. Impressive. I think zen5 will be a blast.

 

[AtenRa]

I would say wait until motherboards are out. If money is that much of a problem, there is always Zen 3.

I really like to see what Intel will bring at $299, ZEN3 is not competitive at lower segments at $100 to $300

 

[gdansk]

The 7950X is $100 less than I expected which means it'll probably be out of stock for months.

 

[Markfw]

The 7950X is $100 less than I expected which means it'll probably be out of stock for months.

I waited for 6 months for my first 5950x @ 799 no less.

 

[Timmah!]

Any info if those slides are true?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1564361269620228096

They look fairly legit, but we shall see in one hour.

 

[nicalandia]

Look at the gaming performance. That's the Next Gaming King....

7950X vs 5950X


Even the 7600X will have a lead vs 12900X





The 7600X Will match the 5800X3D in overall gaming performance. The 7950X will be the Next Gaming King........Until the 7800X3D wich is Mind Boggling...

 

[Karnak]

Like I said, the Borderlands 3 and CS:GO numbers are literally fake. Doesn't make any sense.