Discussion Speculation: Zen 4 (EPYC 4 "Genoa", Ryzen 7000, etc.)

[Vattila]

Except for the details about the improvements in the microarchitecture, we now know pretty well what to expect with Zen 3.

The leaked presentation by AMD Senior Manager Martin Hilgeman shows that EPYC 3 "Milan" will, as promised and expected, reuse the current platform (SP3), and the system architecture and packaging looks to be the same, with the same 9-die chiplet design and the same maximum core and thread-count (no SMT-4, contrary to rumour). The biggest change revealed so far is the enlargement of the compute complex from 4 cores to 8 cores, all sharing a larger L3 cache ("32+ MB", likely to double to 64 MB, I think).

Hilgeman's slides did also show that EPYC 4 "Genoa" is in the definition phase (or was at the time of the presentation in September, at least), and will come with a new platform (SP5), with new memory support (likely DDR5).

What else do you think we will see with Zen 4? PCI-Express 5 support? Increased core-count? 4-way SMT? New packaging (interposer, 2.5D, 3D)? Integrated memory on package (HBM)?

Vote in the poll and share your thoughts!

 

[gdansk]

Like I said, the Borderlands 3 and CS:GO numbers are literally fake. Doesn't make any sense.

or regression due to higher L2 latency? such things happen

 

[Tuna-Fish]

I really like to see what Intel will bring at $299, ZEN3 is not competitive at lower segments at $100 to $300

I expect that come black friday, there will be some really cheap 5700:s and 5600:s available.

 

[nicalandia]

7950X vs 12900X is just Spite...

 

[moinmoin]

Angstronomics' concerns regarding cooling point to hotspots still being an unsolved issue, and the hockey stick like frequency/voltage curve may still be there. But the power efficiency inflection point of the curve may be significantly moved upward if the base frequency of 4.5-4.7 GHz turn out to be true. Will be interesting.

I am glad Phoenix Point is a monolith + limited TDP.

Phoenix Point uses "AMD chiplet technology" so I'm not expecting it to be monolithic still.

This is exactly why Intel developed the efficiency core tactic.

ADL's E-cores have worse power efficiency than ADL's P-cores at the frequency they are run at. RPL appears to up the frequency even further away from the sweet spot. E-cores are area efficient, and that's it.

IPC is meager for a new node

Node changes don't increase the IPC, and Zen 4 is an upgrade on Zen 3, not an IPC-increasing new core like Zen 1 and Zen 3 were.

 

[Rigg]

Take with a BIG grain of salt for now. Source:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1564361269620228096

View attachment 66751

A flat 20% MSRP increase from Alder Lake would mean:

13900k $780
13700k $540
13600k $384
13400 $264

Perhaps not as bad as I feared, although it still looks a bit bad in the low end. I still think the tier division is bad marketing but pricing matters more. We'll have to wait and see how the "up to 20%" price increase from Intel pans out.

 

[inf64]

Imagine AMD holding off 7950X3D and 7800X3D for 27th as a sulplize . Same clocks would be a killer

 

[Karnak]

or regression due to higher L2 latency? such things happen

L2 is double the size, especially for gaming workloads that's a good thing.

But besides latency or such things if you're having a 13% IPC uplift and a 16% frequency uplift there's no way you're only getting mid-single digits performance uplifts. That's just not gonna happen.

 

[Saylick]

Imagine AMD holding off 7950X3D and 7800X3D for 27th as a sulplize . Same clocks would be a killer

That would be monstrous, but I doubt.

 

[nicalandia]

Imagine AMD holding off 7950X3D and 7800X3D for 27th as a sulplize . Same clocks would be a killer

I am not sure why. As it looks like The 7950X will crush anything under the Sun at gaming. Unless AMD just want to burry Intel

 

[CakeMonster]

Absolutely promising, a tiny bit better than the assumption based on their last presentation, but TBH I'm gonna need to see the RL and/or X3D numbers before I order.

 

[HurleyBird]

Take with a BIG grain of salt for now.

This close to a major event with slides that look very professional? I'd take only the tinniest pinch of salt tbh, although pricing can change literally change last minute.

 

[Exist50]

I am not sure why. As it looks like The 7950X will crush anything under the Sun at gaming. Unless AMD just want to burry Intel

It'll crush Alder Lake, but the competition is Raptor Lake. They'll need X3D for a clear lead.

 

[Kaluan]

IPC is meager for a new node, yet they manage 5.7GHz Fmax. Crazy. Their team optimizing for frequency is on a roll all over their portfolio. Impressive. I think zen5 will be a blast.

5,7GHz is not Fmax, it's the advertised boost clock. Current rumor is Fmax on that SKU is 5,85GHz.

I really like to see what Intel will bring at $299, ZEN3 is not competitive at lower segments at $100 to $300

You're kidding, right? 5600 and 5600X are very competitive agaist what Intel has bellow 12600K. Up to $300? You know you can get 5700X and 5800X for $260, right?
As for 13th gen, the entire lower tier lineup (which won't come up until next year...) is supposedly based on Alder Lake silicon, so don't expect as much as you would from i5 Ks and up.

That being said, the supposed pricing gives me mixed feelings. I think 7600X should be $250-280, 7700X $300-350 and 7900X 500. 7950X price seems pretty good however. 13900K will cost around the same.

 

[Joe NYC]

Any info if those slides are true?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1564361269620228096

It would have to be a very elaborate fake.

 

[Saylick]

This close to a major event with slides that look very professional? I'd take only the tinniest pinch of salt tbh, although pricing can change literally change last minute.

Lol, you never know. I am just trying to temper expectations because the AMD hype train accelerates from zero to 60 in 0.003 picoseconds.

 

[nicalandia]

It'll crush Alder Lake, but the competition is Raptor Lake. They'll need X3D for a clear lead.

Have you seen the Leaked gaming performance of Raptor Lake? They are not that great.

 

[Det0x]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1564373867300171776

Pretty good for a new generation

 

[Exist50]

Have you seen the Leaked gaming performance of Raptor Lake? They are not that great.

There was a leak that showed little change to averages but large changes to minimums, and some commentary from Twitter leakers that Raptor Lake might still have the gaming edge. But I'm happy to wait for 3rd party benchmarks for them to be compared directly.

 

[Kaluan]

Lol, you never know. I am just trying to temper expectations because the AMD hype train accelerates from zero to 60 in 0.003 picoseconds.

Looking at the posts from 2 pages ago, I'd say it decelerates at least equally fast 🤣

Edit: Damn, I'm so bad at posting/writing right now. Guess I'm a bit anxious if I'm gonna do a new build or not based on what I learn in the next hour.

 

[CakeMonster]

Assuming more demand for the 12c and 16c parts based on pricing and time passed with more thread demand, they might be as hard to get hold of initially as in 2020...

 

[Exist50]

Assuming more demand for the 12c and 16c parts based on pricing and time passed with more thread demand, they might be as hard to get hold of initially as in 2020...

We'll definitely see a shortage at launch, but that always happens. With customers supposedly cutting back orders from TSMC, I don't think it'll be a long term problem.

 

[Saylick]

Looking at the posts from 2 pages ago, I'd say it decelerates at least equally fast 🤣

I'll have to remind myself to wear a neck brace days before future AMD big product announcements to deal with the whiplash.

 

[Joe NYC]

Phoenix Point uses "AMD chiplet technology" so I'm not expecting it to be monolithic still.

Can you elaborate on what you have heard about Phoenix point regarding chiplets?

At most, I would expect V-Cache, to reduce the N4 cost...

 

[nicalandia]

The 5800X3D had a 12% Lead on the 5950X on Shadow of The Toomb Raider. The 7950X will have a 35% lead.

 

[moinmoin]

Can you elaborate on what you have heard about Phoenix point regarding chiplets?

At most, I would expect V-Cache, to reduce the N4 cost...

It was mentioned at the FAD earlier this year:

Page 10 - Question - AMD Phoenix/Zen 4 APU Speculation and Discussion

Page 10 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

forums.anandtech.com