Discussion Speculation: Zen 4 (EPYC 4 "Genoa", Ryzen 7000, etc.)

[Vattila]

Except for the details about the improvements in the microarchitecture, we now know pretty well what to expect with Zen 3.

The leaked presentation by AMD Senior Manager Martin Hilgeman shows that EPYC 3 "Milan" will, as promised and expected, reuse the current platform (SP3), and the system architecture and packaging looks to be the same, with the same 9-die chiplet design and the same maximum core and thread-count (no SMT-4, contrary to rumour). The biggest change revealed so far is the enlargement of the compute complex from 4 cores to 8 cores, all sharing a larger L3 cache ("32+ MB", likely to double to 64 MB, I think).

Hilgeman's slides did also show that EPYC 4 "Genoa" is in the definition phase (or was at the time of the presentation in September, at least), and will come with a new platform (SP5), with new memory support (likely DDR5).

What else do you think we will see with Zen 4? PCI-Express 5 support? Increased core-count? 4-way SMT? New packaging (interposer, 2.5D, 3D)? Integrated memory on package (HBM)?

Vote in the poll and share your thoughts!

 

[Exist50]

Raptor Lake is on the same process as Alder Lake. The chip itself has some improvements to power management, but there are no changes to process.

They call it the same, but there're always slight improvements. On the topic here, AMD certainly worked some wonders with TSMC. Fantastic scaling results.

 

[Saylick]

Zen 4 has some surprising tweaks:

The front end to be significantly improved in Zen 4 is not something I heard before.

I'm guessing that's the 50% larger micro-op cache?

 

[PJVol]

The longevity of AM4 is incredible. Served me well throughout 1600 to 5600X.

 

[Tuna-Fish]

Wow that'll be way sooner than N5 was. Or is Zen 5 2024?

Zen 5 is "by the end of 2024". That's up to two years away from now. They need to save that X3D to have something new to sell next year.

 

[Karnak]

Well this is just... mindblowing. Intel is in big trouble especially when it comes to Server (good bye SPR and SRF) and even mobile.

 

[turtile]

Wow that'll be way sooner than N5 was. Or is Zen 5 2024?

Zen 5 is 2024, and it seems that only Zen 5c will be N3 while Zen 5 will remain on N4.

 

[Abwx]

AMD, in their own marketing, with their own cherry picked benchmark, say 1.49x vs Alder Lake. Raptor Lake can be reasonably assumed to close that gap by something like 20-25%. Neither 2.0x nor 1.79x are happening.

They traded a bit of the efficency to get even higher clocks, think about it, they said more than 35% better in CB R23 vs 5950X and the final number is 45%.

That s about 7% more than what would have been enough for accuracy of the anouncement, 7% higher clock translate by 20% more power.

 

[Exist50]

Well this is just... mindblowing. Intel is in big trouble especially when it comes to Server (good bye SPR and SRF) and even mobile.

SRF might be fine, but SPR was dead the day Genoa was announced.

 

[nicalandia]

IPC Uplift its quite Impressive....

 

[Carfax83]

How did they configure the Intel setup? Did they use DDR5 4800? The Intel scores seems a bit low if you ask me.

 

[Karnak]

SRF might be fine

Doubt that against Bergamo.

 

[Exist50]

They traded a bit of the efficency to get even higher clocks, think about it, they said more than 35% better in CB R23 vs 5950X and the final number is 45%.

Well of course, but so did Intel with ADL. I hope we see iso-power performance, iso-performance power, and OOB numbers when both are available.

 

[gdansk]

How did they configure the Intel setup? Did they use DDR5 4800? The Intel scores seems a bit low if you ask me.

Did they even give scores? lol. All I saw were bar graphs

 

[Exist50]

Doubt that against Bergamo.

Atom looks very good at throughput, and perhaps just as important, the node gap would be gone. Probably a sizable win for Intel there. But SRF will arrive late, so there's Zen 5c to consider.

 

[Vope45]

Zen 5 is "by the end of 2024". That's up to two years away from now. They need to save that X3D to have something new to sell next year.

Where did he say "end of 2024" ?

 

[Abwx]

How did they configure the Intel setup? Did they use DDR5 4800? The Intel scores seems a bit low if you ask me.

RAM doesnt matter much in Cinebench, here that s 41% and 45% faster than 12900K and 5950X respectively.

 

[CakeMonster]

Zen 5 confirmed 3N+4N

This was on the slide from the financial presentation or the one before it too, its not new.

They're giving themselves the headroom of using '4N' which is TSMC 5nm derived in case there's stumbles, and Z5 will probably arrive in ~24 months from now so its not all that impressive unless they're overdelivering (which they might of course).

 

[Timmah!]

5.7GHz boost on how many cores?

At least 32 of them :-D
The lack of v-cache related info is sad. I would prefer to get that one, but i am not keen to wait another half year for it.

 

[gdansk]

Remember gamers please wait for vcache
so I can get my normal 7950x lol

 

[Exist50]

Second, I hope it does come out end of Sept.

Sept 27th.

 

[inf64]

The link from the YT video stream that contains the endnotes is still not working
https://www.amd.com/Ryzen7000disclosures

 

[tamz_msc]

How did they configure the Intel setup? Did they use DDR5 4800? The Intel scores seems a bit low if you ask me.

According to the press release, 6000 CL30. There weren't any scores, just relative performance uplift.

 

[Tuna-Fish]

Where did he say "end of 2024" ?

That was in the anandtech liveblog. The actual quote, at -12:10 from the end, was "for 2024". Sorry about that.

 

[nicalandia]

As I Expected and my Die Size area showed. AMD AVX512 Will use two 256 Vector Registers. Traiding throughput for speed. Intel Lowers Clock for AVX512, AMD Will not so at the end of the day Will be about even

 

[Zucker2k]

+49% vs Zen3 at same power
View attachment 66774
View attachment 66775

More importantly, ~35% overall performance (as indicated in the slide) over Zen 3 @170w @Abwx

Also:
- ~15% average gaming performance over Zen 3 (which other chip is 15% average over Zen 3? 5800x3d, which happens to trade blows with ADL + DDR5). I'm optimistic for RPL. No wonder the X3D is looking to make an almost immediate showing this time around.
- 170w TDP/230w PPT (to allow Zen 4 chips to leg room to do their thing). So, the chip power consumption debate should end tonight.