Discussion Speculation: Zen 4 (EPYC 4 "Genoa", Ryzen 7000, etc.)

[Vattila]

Except for the details about the improvements in the microarchitecture, we now know pretty well what to expect with Zen 3.

The leaked presentation by AMD Senior Manager Martin Hilgeman shows that EPYC 3 "Milan" will, as promised and expected, reuse the current platform (SP3), and the system architecture and packaging looks to be the same, with the same 9-die chiplet design and the same maximum core and thread-count (no SMT-4, contrary to rumour). The biggest change revealed so far is the enlargement of the compute complex from 4 cores to 8 cores, all sharing a larger L3 cache ("32+ MB", likely to double to 64 MB, I think).

Hilgeman's slides did also show that EPYC 4 "Genoa" is in the definition phase (or was at the time of the presentation in September, at least), and will come with a new platform (SP5), with new memory support (likely DDR5).

What else do you think we will see with Zen 4? PCI-Express 5 support? Increased core-count? 4-way SMT? New packaging (interposer, 2.5D, 3D)? Integrated memory on package (HBM)?

Vote in the poll and share your thoughts!

 

[Saylick]

AMD CEO Dr. Lisa Su to keynote at CES 2023 on January 4th - VideoCardz.com

AMD’s Dr. Lisa Su to Keynote Live at CES® 2023 The Consumer Technology Association (CTA)® today announced Dr. Lisa Su, AMD Chair and CEO, will deliver an in-person keynote address at CES 2023, the world’s most influential technology event. Dr. Su will share AMD’s vision—a perennial highlight of...

videocardz.com

Looks like we're going to see Phoenix Point at CES after all. I am really intrigued as to what the AIE is capable of.

“Over the last few years computing has become an essential and pervasive part of our daily lives, helping each of us adapt how we work and learn remotely, while keeping us connected and entertained. I am excited for the opportunity to deliver a keynote at CES 2023 to highlight the next generation of high-performance and adaptive computing innovations, and products that will push the boundaries on what is possible and play an important role helping solve our most important challenges.”

 

[Kaluan]

AMD CEO Dr. Lisa Su to keynote at CES 2023 on January 4th - VideoCardz.com

AMD’s Dr. Lisa Su to Keynote Live at CES® 2023 The Consumer Technology Association (CTA)® today announced Dr. Lisa Su, AMD Chair and CEO, will deliver an in-person keynote address at CES 2023, the world’s most influential technology event. Dr. Su will share AMD’s vision—a perennial highlight of...

videocardz.com

Looks like we're going to see Phoenix Point at CES after all. I am really intrigued as to what the AIE is capable of.

Yeah that and Dragon Range are almost a given. Raphael-X is highly likely too (if they don't announce it sooner). They're probably also gonna talk up the impending wide availability of Genoa-X, Siena and Bergamo.

And tease more AMD/Xilinx stuff... and Turin.

 

[nicalandia]

I am really intrigued as to what the AIE is capable of.

There are two AI Engine. The AI Engine and The AI Engine-ML(enhanced for Machine Learning) and how many tiles they offer

"Xilinx offers two types of AI Engines: AIE and AIE-ML (AI Engine for Machine Learning), both offering significant performance improvements over previous generation FPGAs. AIE accelerates a more balanced set of workloads including ML Inference applications and advanced signal processing workloads like beamforming, radar, and other workloads requiring a massive amount of filtering and transforms. With enhanced AI vector extensions and the introduction of shared memory tiles within the AI Engine array, AIE-ML offers superior performance over AIE for ML inference focused applications, whereas AIE can offer better performance over AIE-ML for certain types of advanced signal processing"

Xilinx/AMD AI Engine



Xilinx/AMD Xilinx AI Engine ML

 

[RnR_au]

Does anyone know the time for the reviews to hit the internet? Is it midnight 20th USA EST time?

 

[Saylick]

Does anyone know the time for the reviews to hit the internet? Is it midnight 20th USA EST time?

Allegedly the NDA got pushed back to the 26th.

 

[RnR_au]

Sauce for the 26th... sorry if this is a repost;

https://twitter.com/x/status/1569685791131172866

 

[Panino Manino]

There's a store in China already selling 7950X, maybe we will see some reviews before launch.

 

[Makaveli]

There's a store in China already selling 7950X, maybe we will see some reviews before launch.

meh reviews will be online next monday from everyone I can wait.

 

[eek2121]

I almost forgot about it. Who else nailed the poll of this topic? Or was it just me being brilliant?View attachment 67775

Same here, nailed it. 😂

You can click on the votes to see who voted for what FYI.

 

[Vope45]

Same little birdie told me Nov 15th for Rdna 3 We'll see.

Apparently this is their deadline. RDNA launches on the 3rd now. AMD want to chip in on the ADA underwhelming reveal asap

 

[Hans de Vries]

Apisak found the missing Ryzen 9 7950X score Huge generational improvement

https://twitter.com/x/status/1572468697851375618

 

[coercitiv]

Also Apisak: browser.geekbench.com/v5/cpu/17429988

 

[tamz_msc]

Also Apisak: browser.geekbench.com/v5/cpu/17429988

View attachment 67885

Impressive FP score, but only so-so integer score.

 

[CHADBOGA]

Apisak found the missing Ryzen 9 7950X score Huge generational improvement


View attachment 67884

Why are the 12 & 16 core Zen 4 models a lot faster over their Zen 3 equivalents, compared to the 8 core Zen 4 model?

 

[itsmydamnation]

Why are the 12 & 16 core Zen 4 models a lot faster over their Zen 3 equivalents, compared to the 8 core Zen 4 model?

12 & 16 core more TDP bound would be my guess

 

[CHADBOGA]

12 & 16 core more TDP bound would be my guess

You mean the 12 & 16 core Zen 3's are TDP bound?

 

[Abwx]

Why are the 12 & 16 core Zen 4 models a lot faster over their Zen 3 equivalents, compared to the 8 core Zen 4 model?

Because the all core boost frequency uplift is much bigger for the 12/16C.

5800X/5600X all core boost is around 4.5-4.6Ghz while the 5950X/5900X clock at 3.9-4GHz and 4.2-4.3GHz respectively.

 

[nicalandia]

APISAK, delivering the goods

 

[nicalandia]

Apisak found the missing Ryzen 9 7950X score

To be fair, I found the first 7950X scores a few days ago a posted here, but the sample was clearly Throttling.

 

[Kaluan]

Based on this data, asuming 7900X to 7950X performance scaling (same TDPs on both Ryzen 9s within their generations) is similar to 5900X to 5950X (29,5-34% faster), the 7950X should score roughly:

- 570 in Whetstone Double
- 690 in Whetstone Single
- 1220 in Dhrystone Long
- 1150 in Dhrystone Int

I could be very off mark, or maybe right on it, IDK if I'm missing something. Was about to ask if someone has a chart with both 5900X AND 5950X on it for this purpose then @nicalandia delivered even before I had a chance to ask haha

Apisak found the missing Ryzen 9 7950X score Huge generational improvement


View attachment 67884

https://twitter.com/x/status/1572468697851375618

I was prretty much dead-on. No surprise tho. Seemed very predictable.

 

[Saylick]

Sorry if this has already been posted:

AMD Ryzen 9 7950X (Zen4 Raphael) Review & Benchmarks – AVX512 Top-End Domination – SiSoftware

www.sisoftware.co.uk

 

[nicalandia]

Sorry if this has already been posted:

AMD Ryzen 9 7950X (Zen4 Raphael) Review & Benchmarks – AVX512 Top-End Domination – SiSoftware

www.sisoftware.co.uk

You beat me to it...! But thanks for posting..

AMD Ryzen 9 7950X (Zen4 Raphael) Review & Benchmarks – AVX512 Domination







From the source: "Across all the benchmarks – Zen4 ends up an astonishing 74% faster than Zen3 (7950X vs. 5950X) which is a spectacular improvement not seen since the introduction of the original Ryzen (Zen1). If this does not make you run and get one, nothing will! "


Final Thoughts / Conclusions
"However, both due to increased clocks and core improvements, even legacy code flies – all code is between 40% to 100% (2x) faster than Zen3 and thus also beats Intel’s very top ADL processor into dust. With AVX512 extensions (IFMA, VNNI), the improvement is even larger, 2.5x. There is nothing this CPU cannot handle – but then again this is the top-end 16C/32T version"

 

[igor_kavinski]

There is nothing this CPU cannot handle

That's what I was thinking! Is there anything this CPU can't do???

Unfortunately, they failed to mention the RAM speed and timings. So we have to assume that these benchmarks were run at stock settings (boring DDR5-5200)?

 

[inf64]

Brutal performance, but nothing a regular AT forum visitor hasn't known for a long time (unless you are like this guy ).

We've been on top of the leaks and projections for a whole year now, it's been a fun and exciting ride. Now bring on the reviews!

 

[nicalandia]

Brutal performance, but nothing a regular AT forum visitor hasn't known for a long time

We saw the writing on the Wall..

This sums up the sentiment: From the Source: "We did expect Zen4 to do well but it is good to see it realised – true to their word, AMD has launched a powerhouse of a CPU that demolishes everything in its path. Both Zen3 and Intel ADL, RKL are left in the dust. Intel seems to have little chance without AVX512. "