Discussion Speculation: Zen 4 (EPYC 4 "Genoa", Ryzen 7000, etc.)

[Vattila]

Except for the details about the improvements in the microarchitecture, we now know pretty well what to expect with Zen 3.

The leaked presentation by AMD Senior Manager Martin Hilgeman shows that EPYC 3 "Milan" will, as promised and expected, reuse the current platform (SP3), and the system architecture and packaging looks to be the same, with the same 9-die chiplet design and the same maximum core and thread-count (no SMT-4, contrary to rumour). The biggest change revealed so far is the enlargement of the compute complex from 4 cores to 8 cores, all sharing a larger L3 cache ("32+ MB", likely to double to 64 MB, I think).

Hilgeman's slides did also show that EPYC 4 "Genoa" is in the definition phase (or was at the time of the presentation in September, at least), and will come with a new platform (SP5), with new memory support (likely DDR5).

What else do you think we will see with Zen 4? PCI-Express 5 support? Increased core-count? 4-way SMT? New packaging (interposer, 2.5D, 3D)? Integrated memory on package (HBM)?

Vote in the poll and share your thoughts!

 

[In2Photos]

The differences in prices is going be only $150 differences between the 7800X and the 7050X! Might as well go with the top of the line for that amount!

What is your fascination with the number 7050? There is no 7050 part!

 

[Abwx]

Who would buy that for $200 over an i3-13100 with DDR4, unless MB & DDR5 drop significantly?

The 7300X has the full 32MB L3, that s considerable for a 4C/8T CPU, that s 8MB/core and should give quite an advantage in games or cache sensitive and lowly threaded apps.

 

[Thunder 57]

Who would buy that for $200 over an i3-13100 with DDR4, unless MB & DDR5 drop significantly?

Someone who is building something now that they will be upgrade to later on? Someone who wants a non dead end platform. I wouldn't want a quad core these days but many people might bite.

What is your fascination with the number 7050? There is no 7050 part!

I was about to post the same thing. @Harry_Wild There is no 7050X!

 

[RnR_au]

I wouldn't want a quad core these days but many people might bite.

If it performs like a 5600X in gaming and the price is right, it could be a winner. 5600X is still a value champ, but obviously there are plenty of cheap boards around too.

Until the 650 board prices drop, I fear there isn't much AMD can do to get the budget builders into the Zen 4 camp.

 

[Asterox]

Someone who is building something now that they will be upgrade to later on? Someone who wants a non dead end platform. I wouldn't want a quad core these days but many people might bite.



I was about to post the same thing. @Harry_Wild There is no 7050X!

I don't know, but it seems to me that people keep forgetting that every Ryzen 7000 CPU has an iGPU=AMD VCN or hardware video encoding/decoding.

For an HTPC computer, or for a business computer it is a big advantage.

 

[Thunder 57]

I don't know, but it seems to me that people keep forgetting that every Ryzen 7000 CPU has an iGPU=AMD VCN or hardware video encoding/decoding.

For an HTPC computer, or for a business computer it is a big advantage.

I agree. I don't know why people choose to save ~$30 for Intel F CPU's. The iGPU is easily worth that even if you never plan to use it. If it was more like ~$80 less, then I could absolutely see the value.

 

[Saylick]

MLID has a new video regarding Sienna and Bergamo/Zen 4c cores. Basically, Zen 4c is Zen 4 with half the L3 (same L2!), 2 CCXs on the same CCD, higher density libraries, and thus lower clocks. It shares the same instruction set as regular Zen 4 because for all intents and purposes it's literally just a space-optimized Zen 4.

 

[Hans Gruber]

I think it's time for AMD to start making Zen 4 CPU's on the AM4 platform. When people say that is not possible. AMD promised that AM4 would be supported for 5 years. Then they said Zen 3 wasn't compatible with B350/x370 boards and then suddenly it was.

It's the one thing AMD can do to save their slowly sinking ship. A drop in processor option would greatly help Zen 4 sales. Intel's next CPU will be on a true 7nm process. 5nm has not done much for AMD performance. I don't know if 3nm will bring more performance other than energy efficiency for Zen 5.

Zen 4 is looking more like a Zen 3 on 5nm with a much higher TDP than Zen 3. I wonder how a Zen 3 would perform against Zen 4 with the same TDP. What Zen 4 lacks in IPC they gain in higher power consumption than Zen 3. People can argue the power efficiency gains going from 7nm to 5nm offsets the increased power of Zen4. I know that is the Intel way but AMD should have done a better job with Zen 4.

Obviously Zen 4 will continue to dominate the server market. I am wondering if that will change when Intel has 7nm silicon. Will AMD still hold a server market lead after Zen 4.

I thought 5nm would mean AMD would have a 24 or 32 core Zen 4 consumer CPU.

 

[RnR_au]

...
It's the one thing AMD can do to save their slowly sinking ship.
...
Obviously Zen 4 will continue to dominate the server market.

You make no sense.

 

[deasd]

7300X

https://twitter.com/x/status/1585383990114091031

edit: ouch I didn't realized it has been posted....

so I guess next X3D would be 7700X3D though, if the 7800X is 10C.

 

[Thunder 57]

I think it's time for AMD to start making Zen 4 CPU's on the AM4 platform. When people say that is not possible. AMD promised that AM4 would be supported for 5 years. Then they said Zen 3 wasn't compatible with B350/x370 boards and then suddenly it was.

It's the one thing AMD can do to save their slowly sinking ship. A drop in processor option would greatly help Zen 4 sales. Intel's next CPU will be on a true 7nm process. 5nm has not done much for AMD performance. I don't know if 3nm will bring more performance other than energy efficiency for Zen 5.

Zen 4 is looking more like a Zen 3 on 5nm with a much higher TDP than Zen 3. I wonder how a Zen 3 would perform against Zen 4 with the same TDP. What Zen 4 lacks in IPC they gain in higher power consumption than Zen 3. People can argue the power efficiency gains going from 7nm to 5nm offsets the increased power of Zen4. I know that is the Intel way but AMD should have done a better job with Zen 4.

Obviously Zen 4 will continue to dominate the server market. I am wondering if that will change when Intel has 7nm silicon. Will AMD still hold a server market lead after Zen 4.

I thought 5nm would mean AMD would have a 24 or 32 core Zen 4 consumer CPU.

And Zen 4 should have been released in Q1 2022 as well, right?

 

[Hans Gruber]

And Zen 4 should have been released in Q1 2022 as well, right?

Yes, that is correct. Please go through the thread to find my "this is Intel we're talking about." They don't lose often or for long philosophy. Any misstep by AMD could result in disaster but they had their best run in decades. AMD is not done in the server market because of their node advantage. They can still pack more cores on a chip than Intel by a long shot.

 

[biostud]

7300X

https://twitter.com/x/status/1585383990114091031

edit: ouch I didn't realized it has been posted....

so I guess next X3D would be 7700X3D though, if the 7800X is 10C.

The 7300X doesn't really makes sense until the A620 motherboards are launched, if it is aimed for budget builds.

 

[leoneazzurro]

The 7300X doesn't really makes sense until the A620 motherboards are launched, if it is aimed for budget builds.

Maybe a sign these are not so far in time?

 

[In2Photos]

I think it's time for AMD to start making Zen 4 CPU's on the AM4 platform. When people say that is not possible. AMD promised that AM4 would be supported for 5 years. Then they said Zen 3 wasn't compatible with B350/x370 boards and then suddenly it was.

It's the one thing AMD can do to save their slowly sinking ship. A drop in processor option would greatly help Zen 4 sales. Intel's next CPU will be on a true 7nm process. 5nm has not done much for AMD performance. I don't know if 3nm will bring more performance other than energy efficiency for Zen 5.

Zen 4 is looking more like a Zen 3 on 5nm with a much higher TDP than Zen 3. I wonder how a Zen 3 would perform against Zen 4 with the same TDP. What Zen 4 lacks in IPC they gain in higher power consumption than Zen 3. People can argue the power efficiency gains going from 7nm to 5nm offsets the increased power of Zen4. I know that is the Intel way but AMD should have done a better job with Zen 4.

Obviously Zen 4 will continue to dominate the server market. I am wondering if that will change when Intel has 7nm silicon. Will AMD still hold a server market lead after Zen 4.

I thought 5nm would mean AMD would have a 24 or 32 core Zen 4 consumer CPU.

Zen3 only needed a BIOS update to work on 300 series motherboards. The problem was that the BIOS was starting to become too large to support all of the Zen CPUs. That's quite a bit different than repackaging Zen4 on to a different socket, while also being compatible with a different chipset, while also being compatible with different memory, and compatible with AM4 coolers.

 

[Markfw]

Yes, that is correct. Please go through the thread to find my "this is Intel we're talking about." They don't lose often or for long philosophy. Any misstep by AMD could result in disaster but they had their best run in decades. AMD is not done in the server market because of their node advantage. They can still pack more cores on a chip than Intel by a long shot.

More cores is only part of it. The chiplet design is part of it, and lower power cpu's is really what getting them out front.

 

[moinmoin]

MLID has a new video regarding Sienna and Bergamo/Zen 4c cores.

I'm honestly not seeing the news in there. Is it supposed to be a summary of what we were talking about already?

 

[DrMrLordX]

And Zen 4 should have been released in Q1 2022 as well, right?

It would have been nice, but it might not have been ready. At least not for desktop.

 

[maddie]

I'm honestly not seeing the news in there. Is it supposed to be a summary of what we were talking about already?

Zen 4C cores = Zen 4 cores except for cache? No one here ever said that. We said same ISA. Not the same thing.

 

[SteinFG]

There's a big chance that 7800X and 7300X actually do not exist.

https://twitter.com/BenchLeaks

I find it very suspicious that 6 unannounced ryzen cpus would be leaked on the same day, each using different motherboard.

 

[nicalandia]

Who would buy that for $200 over an i3-13100 with DDR4, unless MB & DDR5 drop significantly?

I suspect that a 4C/8T Zen4 with 32MiB of L3$ DDR5 is faster in games than a i3 with DDR4

 

[nicalandia]

Zen 4C cores = Zen 4 cores except for cache? No one here ever said that. We said same ISA. Not the same thing.

Really? We have known that for Months now, heck I even draw many core diagrams with half L3$ Trying to understand how AMD will double the cores on the same package size... Come on Dude, please keep up with the news and this thread.

 

[Kaluan]

Anyone else think there's a high likelihood of AMD rebooting Ryzen 7000 pricing with the launch of 7000X3D? They basically did the same with 5800X3D launch timeframe. That and launch A620 mobos.

Some wishful thinking ahead:

R3 7300X
- $179
R5 7600X
- $259
R7 7700
- $299
R7 7700X
- $329
R7 7700X3D
- $399
R7 7800X
- $379
R9 7900X
- $479
R9 7950X
- $649
R9 7950X3D
- $799

Then in Q3:
R7 7700G
- $299
R5 7600G
- $239

No mention of TDP/PPT on the rumored new parts, so I'll have a guesstimate:

65/76W on 7300X
65/88W on 7700
125/162W on 7800X

Edit: My internet is acting up. Disregard all 7300X/7800X points made. Likely fake.

 

[nicalandia]

Delete

 

[jpiniero]

Zen 4 is already much more expensive to make as it is. I still think they would finish Zen 4 AM4 or release Threadripper (Pros) before cutting prices.

The 7800X and 7300X might be OEM/SI only specials.