Discussion Speculation: Zen 4 (EPYC 4 "Genoa", Ryzen 7000, etc.)

[Vattila]

Except for the details about the improvements in the microarchitecture, we now know pretty well what to expect with Zen 3.

The leaked presentation by AMD Senior Manager Martin Hilgeman shows that EPYC 3 "Milan" will, as promised and expected, reuse the current platform (SP3), and the system architecture and packaging looks to be the same, with the same 9-die chiplet design and the same maximum core and thread-count (no SMT-4, contrary to rumour). The biggest change revealed so far is the enlargement of the compute complex from 4 cores to 8 cores, all sharing a larger L3 cache ("32+ MB", likely to double to 64 MB, I think).

Hilgeman's slides did also show that EPYC 4 "Genoa" is in the definition phase (or was at the time of the presentation in September, at least), and will come with a new platform (SP5), with new memory support (likely DDR5).

What else do you think we will see with Zen 4? PCI-Express 5 support? Increased core-count? 4-way SMT? New packaging (interposer, 2.5D, 3D)? Integrated memory on package (HBM)?

Vote in the poll and share your thoughts!

 

[biostud]

VCache on mobile would be a bigger win I think. Mobile ram tends to be slow.

Also the APUs of AMD only has 16mb L3 cache.

 

[scineram]

Which have nothing to do with V-cache.

 

[Thibsie]

Which have nothing to do with V-cache.

Of course it has.
It means vcache may add more performance than desktop zen.

 

[Exist50]

Of course it has.
It means vcache may add more performance than desktop zen.

Dragon Range looks to be just Raphael in a different package.

 

[TESKATLIPOKA]

I can imagine Vcache coming to laptops, but I don't think Phoenix will use It. In my opinion, only Dragon Range (Raphael) will use this cache.

 

[igor_kavinski]

And two years from launch will be when people can actually find them and buy at affordable prices.

 

[DrMrLordX]

When MLID says something it's never news, just speculation. That includes looking outside and reporting a full moon.

Someone tell him to put on some pants!

Also the APUs of AMD only has 16mb L3 cache.

Pretty sure Dragon Range will have up to 32MB per CCD just like Raphael.

 

[biostud]

Someone tell him to put on some pants!



Pretty sure Dragon Range will have up to 32MB per CCD just like Raphael.

Yeah mixed it up with Phoenix.

 

[Thibsie]

Dragon Range looks to be just Raphael in a different package.

Maybe buy vcache has everything to do with e amazing unt of L3. Dragon being monolithic or not is another point.

 

[Asterox]

That is very good, Wraith Prism RGB is coming back with R7 7700 and R9 7900.

AMD Ryzen 7900/7700/7600 CPU pricing and specifications have been confirmed - VideoCardz.com

AMD Ryzen 7000 non-X starts at $229 Pricing for Ryzen 7000 non-X CPUs has now been confirmed. The rumors about potential Ryzen 7000 pricing were indeed correct. Slides from the embargoed presentation shows the pricing and specs for the upcoming Ryzen 7000 series which are set to launch next...

videocardz.com

 

[Kaluan]

I can imagine Vcache coming to laptops, but I don't think Phoenix will use It. In my opinion, only Dragon Range (Raphael) will use this cache.

Yeah, unless they are having a go at a SmartShift... for L3, were x86 cores and graphics units can share and tap into that cache depending on bandwidth needs I don't see V-Cache being a thing for thin & light APUs.

Which very well may be something they're invested in, but def won't see light this generation.

That is very good, Wraith Prism RGB is coming back with R7 7700 and R9 7900.

AMD Ryzen 7900/7700/7600 CPU pricing and specifications have been confirmed - VideoCardz.com

AMD Ryzen 7000 non-X starts at $229 Pricing for Ryzen 7000 non-X CPUs has now been confirmed. The rumors about potential Ryzen 7000 pricing were indeed correct. Slides from the embargoed presentation shows the pricing and specs for the upcoming Ryzen 7000 series which are set to launch next...

videocardz.com

View attachment 73022

Already itching to put something AM5 budget oriented in the custom builds I make... too bad It'll still be short of < $150 mobos and worthwhile value DDR5 memory. Maybe in half a year tho.

 

[Timmah!]

AMD Ryzen Threadripper 7000 'Storm Peak' CPUs Launching In September 2023: HEDT & Workstation Flavors With Up To 8-Channel Memory & 128 PCIe Gen 5 Lanes

AMD's Ryzen Threadripper 7000 'Storm Peak' CPUs are allegedly going to launch in both HEDT & Workstation flavors in September 2023.

wccftech.com

naturally this info comes the day my 7950x finally arrived
that said, i was not eager to wait till next september

 

[moinmoin]

AMD Ryzen Threadripper 7000 'Storm Peak' CPUs Launching In September 2023: HEDT & Workstation Flavors With Up To 8-Channel Memory & 128 PCIe Gen 5 Lanes

AMD's Ryzen Threadripper 7000 'Storm Peak' CPUs are allegedly going to launch in both HEDT & Workstation flavors in September 2023.

wccftech.com

That would mean there is no Threadripper platform not cutdown from Epyc. If true I'm expecting Threadripper to stay an expensive niche in the shadow of the server market.

 

[igor_kavinski]

naturally this info comes the day my 7950x finally arrived

Looking forward to pics of your monster machine

 

[scineram]

That would mean there is no Threadripper platform not cutdown from Epyc. If true I'm expecting Threadripper to stay an expensive niche in the shadow of the server market.

Why would it mean that?

 

[moinmoin]

Why would it mean that?

SP5 is 12 channels, SP6 is 6 channels. If the server business is going to do as well as it did so far full featured chips are going to fetch a higher margin in the server market than cut down variants as Threadripper chips. And the market for Threadripper is too small to warrant a dedicated IOD. So the guaranteed quantity amounts to salvaged IODs which with the reported high yield are unlikely to be many.

 

[Timmah!]

Looking forward to pics of your monster machine

Hah, thanks, i might post some build pictures in the other thread once its ready. Or some benchmarking numbers.

To be fair though, now i have it almost all of it here, in shiny boxes, i kinda lack the excitement, i thought i would be more happy. Not jumping to the roof kind of happy, i am not a kid after all, and ultimately this is meant for work, but obviously i do have enthusiasm for these things, i was looking forward to it. However I was sick past 2 weeks, had a flu or something, somehow remained feeling tired, low on energy and sort of joyless - and the passion for this computer stuff kind of withered as well. Not the first time in life i feel blue, but usually it had good reasons, it was not just randomly because i had flu/cold or whatever.

Anyway, i feel bit ungrateful now, being privileged to own such expensive hardware, that not even everyone on this boards can afford, and some of these people might be bigger computer "geeks" than i am, more deserving of it, yet i dont appreciate it as i should. Hopefully it all comes together at least for short period of time, once i get it up and running.

 

[moinmoin]

To be fair though, now i have it almost all of it here, in shiny boxes, i kinda lack the excitement, i thought i would be more happy. Not jumping to the roof kind of happy, i am not a kid after all, and ultimately this is meant for work, but obviously i do have enthusiasm for these things, i was looking forward to it. However I was sick past 2 weeks, had a flu or something, somehow remained feeling tired, low on energy and sort of joyless - and the passion for this computer stuff kind of withered as well. Not the first time in life i feel blue, but usually it had good reasons, it was not just randomly because i had flu/cold or whatever.

Anyway, i feel bit ungrateful now, being privileged to own such expensive hardware, that not even everyone on this boards can afford, and some of these people might be bigger computer "geeks" than i am, more deserving of it, yet i dont appreciate it as i should. Hopefully it all comes together at least for short period of time, once i get it up and running.

Sounds like you have earned yourself a good long rest first.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Anyway, i feel bit ungrateful now, being privileged to own such expensive hardware, that not even everyone on this boards can afford, and some of these people might be bigger computer "geeks" than i am, more deserving of it, yet i dont appreciate it as i should.

Well, I know your hardware would be grossly underutilized by me

I'm also lacking the motivation to put together my 12700K+Z790 mobo because I don't really have a problem with my i7-5775C yet.

 

[nicalandia]

There is a Bios option to Enable and Disable AVX-512

AMD 4th Gen EPYC 9654 "Genoa" AVX-512 Performance Analysis - Phoronix

www.phoronix.com

 

[BorisTheBlade82]

There is a Bios option to Enable and Disable AVX-512

View attachment 73095

AMD 4th Gen EPYC 9654 "Genoa" AVX-512 Performance Analysis - Phoronix

www.phoronix.com

Of course there is. Would you have expected otherwise?

 

[nicalandia]

Of course there is. Would you have expected otherwise?

It's not available on Ryzen 7000 Raphael based BIOS

 

[BorisTheBlade82]

It's not available on Ryzen 7000 Raphael based BIOS

Really? I am honestly surprised. Most/all or only some?

 

[nicalandia]

Really? I am honestly surprised. Most/all or only some?

@Markfw

 

[nicalandia]

Really? I am honestly surprised. Most/all or only some?

It's not really a Surprised once you understand that leaving the settings to Auto(or enabled by default without the option to disable it) is actually more efficient than disabled. It's like the opposite of Intel AVX-512 implementation.