Discussion Speculation: Zen 4 (EPYC 4 "Genoa", Ryzen 7000, etc.)

[Vattila]

Except for the details about the improvements in the microarchitecture, we now know pretty well what to expect with Zen 3.

The leaked presentation by AMD Senior Manager Martin Hilgeman shows that EPYC 3 "Milan" will, as promised and expected, reuse the current platform (SP3), and the system architecture and packaging looks to be the same, with the same 9-die chiplet design and the same maximum core and thread-count (no SMT-4, contrary to rumour). The biggest change revealed so far is the enlargement of the compute complex from 4 cores to 8 cores, all sharing a larger L3 cache ("32+ MB", likely to double to 64 MB, I think).

Hilgeman's slides did also show that EPYC 4 "Genoa" is in the definition phase (or was at the time of the presentation in September, at least), and will come with a new platform (SP5), with new memory support (likely DDR5).

What else do you think we will see with Zen 4? PCI-Express 5 support? Increased core-count? 4-way SMT? New packaging (interposer, 2.5D, 3D)? Integrated memory on package (HBM)?

Vote in the poll and share your thoughts!

 

[Racan]

Baldur’s Gate 3 loves 3D v-cache Zen 4

Baldur's Gate 3 im Technik-Test: Hübsch, brutal, klassisch [Update: 40 Grafikkarten im Benchmark]

PCGH zeigt, welche Leistung Sie in Baldur's Gate 3 erwarten können - je nach verwendeter CPU oder Grafikkarte.

www.pcgameshardware.de

 

[A///]

these charts are always hilarious to look at. Hardly much better than a 7700x.

 

[mmaenpaa]

these charts are always hilarious to look at. Hardly much better than a 7700x.

I like the way you define hardly.

 

[jpiniero]

Phoenix U appears to be finally shipping... Lenovo has a mobile workstation with the Pro models that ships at the end of the month.

Not cheap btw.

 

[Joe NYC]

Phoenix U appears to be finally shipping... Lenovo has a mobile workstation with the Pro models that ships at the end of the month.

Not cheap btw.

Phoenix (big) is making some big waves in Mini PC market. First, everyone was falling all over Minis Forum "Pro" edition with 7940HS chip. Now BeeLink released their newest Mini PC with the same chip, and it is apparently even better.

Serve The Home review:

 

[misuspita]

Yeah, if you're not going to want a PCIe GPU, this is the beesnees. I have a completely silent case with a 5700G but my next one will probably be one of these when AMD gets to 9000 series

 

[Saylick]

Given how expensive it is to be a PC hobbyist at the high end of the range (*cough* expensive GPUs *cough*), if the community starts focusing on mini PCs and more affordable setups instead, I'd be all for it because it just doesn't feel exciting anymore to brag about how a $5000 PC build slaughters all games. But trying to do more with less? Now that's something I'd be curious about. At some point, everyone will be satisfied with a solid APU in a small form factor that can do 1080p at 60 Hz comfortably for AAA titles with maxed out settings. I look forward to watching the road being paved to get there.

 

[Joe NYC]

I started switching to these almost 10 years ago for office PCs. Back then, this was a decent model, featuring Haswell-R processor "Iris Pro" graphics. Now, I am back to looking at Mini PCs, and now, Phoenix based Mini PCs the best.

Edit: Now that I think about it, I started even before that. There used to be a company named Shuttle making them. But unfortunately, the Shuttle based MiniPCs were a little trouble prone...

 

[jpiniero]

AMD Ryzen Threadripper PRO 7995WX 96-core CPU leaks out, boosts up to 5.14 GHz - VideoCardz.com

Leak confirms AMD Threadripper 7000 will feature up to 96 cores and 5.1 GHz clocks AMD HEDT is back with more cores and higher frequencies. It looks like AMD will finally be upgrading the core count for its Threadripper series. The long-delayed HEDT platform featuring large CPU count is back...

videocardz.com

The 7995WX leaks out - 96 cores. Must be coming out soon. Says they were able to get 5.1 Ghz All Core (with LN2 presumably)

 

[Saylick]

I started switching to these almost 10 years ago for office PCs. Back then, this was a decent model, featuring Haswell-R processor "Iris Pro" graphics. Now, I am back to looking at Mini PCs, and now, Phoenix based Mini PCs the best.

Edit: Now that I think about it, I started even before that. There used to be a company named Shuttle making them. But unfortunately, the Shuttle based MiniPCs were a little trouble prone...

View attachment 84510

Very nice. I don't PC game anymore (I've devolved to a console peasant) so I would be very interested in a mini PC if my current home computer were to go kaput. Strix Point with 8 Zen 5 cores and hopefully much improved iGPU sounds super sweet for photo editing.

 

[Joe NYC]

Very nice. I don't PC game anymore (I've devolved to a console peasant) so I would be very interested in a mini PC if my current home computer were to go kaput. Strix Point with 8 Zen 5 cores and hopefully much improved iGPU sounds super sweet for photo editing.

Or even Strix Halo for some gaming.

Strix Halo could match one of the cards I have - Radeon 6600 XT - which is fine for the titles I typically play - strategy, simulation, base / colony building, factory automation, indies.

We will see what kind requirements Starfield has. That may up my expectations from a new card.

Hmm, found the minimum spec for Starfield as 5700 / 1070. So my 6600 XT is just hovering around the minimum...

 

[eek2121]

AMD Ryzen Threadripper PRO 7995WX 96-core CPU leaks out, boosts up to 5.14 GHz - VideoCardz.com

Leak confirms AMD Threadripper 7000 will feature up to 96 cores and 5.1 GHz clocks AMD HEDT is back with more cores and higher frequencies. It looks like AMD will finally be upgrading the core count for its Threadripper series. The long-delayed HEDT platform featuring large CPU count is back...

videocardz.com

The 7995WX leaks out - 96 cores. Must be coming out soon. Says they were able to get 5.1 Ghz All Core (with LN2 presumably)

Curious where the final SC clocks end up. In theory AMD shouldn’t need to sacrifice SC clocks at all. In practice, however, AMD tends to be conservative.

 

[A///]

Hmm. @Markfw How do you feel about spending some pocket change on a new gadget?

 

[igor_kavinski]

Hmm. @Markfw How do you feel about spending some pocket change on a new gadget?

Doubt it. He already has a LOT of Genoa threads.

 

[Markfw]

Doubt it. He already has a LOT of Genoa threads.

I have 2 Genoa 9554's and a 9654, and a 9554 ready to be built. Maybe if I get some spare $$

 

[A///]

I have 2 Genoa 9554's and a 9654, and a 9554 ready to be built. Maybe if I get some spare $$

never too late to begin moonlighting as a hitman I say.

 

[RnR_au]

Yeah, if you're not going to want a PCIe GPU, this is the beesnees.

Thunderbolt based egpu's are fine if you need more grunt than what the igpu can provide. I'm running an RX 6600 from a laptop that only exposes 2 pcie lanes on its thunderbolt port. esports stuff runs fine.

And then you have Framework 16 which exposes 8 pcie 4.0 lanes at the back and community folk are building an Oculink adapter. There is no reason for Beelink and others not to offer OcuLink support in the future. GPD already does so in multiple of their products.

 

[nicalandia]

AMD Ryzen Threadripper PRO 7995WX 96-core CPU leaks out, boosts up to 5.14 GHz - VideoCardz.com

Leak confirms AMD Threadripper 7000 will feature up to 96 cores and 5.1 GHz clocks AMD HEDT is back with more cores and higher frequencies. It looks like AMD will finally be upgrading the core count for its Threadripper series. The long-delayed HEDT platform featuring large CPU count is back...

videocardz.com

The 7995WX leaks out - 96 cores. Must be coming out soon. Says they were able to get 5.1 Ghz All Core (with LN2 presumably)

I doubt its even OCed. Stock Genoa 96 cores faster in MT

 

[igor_kavinski]

I doubt its even OCed. Stock Genoa 96 cores faster in MT

Are you back from a vacation or something?

 

[darkswordsman17]

Thunderbolt based egpu's are fine if you need more grunt than what the igpu can provide. I'm running an RX 6600 from a laptop that only exposes 2 pcie lanes on its thunderbolt port. esports stuff runs fine.

And then you have Framework 16 which exposes 8 pcie 4.0 lanes at the back and community folk are building an Oculink adapter. There is no reason for Beelink and others not to offer OcuLink support in the future. GPD already does so in multiple of their products.

Oculink is too limited I think, especially since USB 4 Gen 2 is already here, offering up to 120Gbps bandwidth. I have to imagine it should be possible to make it so you can offer at least a couple of Gen 2 ports that aren't stuck sharing the same total bandwidth like Thunderbolt does. Hopefully they (the consortium coming up with the standard) both hurry up but also make sound decisions for that new optical data cable standard, which should help tremendously with external connections.

After seeing some of the craziness achieved with riser cables, I don't know why companies aren't offering external PCIe connectors to a dock. Which that's pretty much what Khadas is, going to offer a full PCIe 5.0 in their Mind mini-PC and eGPU. I just wish we were getting one of these new AMD APUs in it and something better than 4060 for the eGPU.

I'm similarly disappointed that ASUS went with Intel in the ROG Flow z13 tablet instead of Phoenix. Especially since they basically crammed Phoenix in the ROG Ally. If ASUS would combine the 2 and then offer like 3 sizes (10" for portable, 14" for gaming 2n1, 18" with modular mini-PC and eGPU dock on a portable monitor), with a sliding Switch like mechanism for accessories (controllers, but also speakers, camera/mic for streamers, customizable knobs for say artists, etc).

Since AMD seems adamant about not following the big.little/P-e core, I've wondered if the Zen Xc cores aren't supposed to be the defacto standard, with them catering to enthusiasts by using 3D Vcache. I'd be really curious to see what going all c Cores, use the saved space for larger iGPU and then put 3D v-cache on it, would offer.

 

[SteinFG]

Oculink is too limited I think, especially since USB 4 Gen 2 is already here, offering up to 120Gbps bandwidth

PCIe is bidirectional. 120Gb in newer USB spec is one side bandwidth (40 up + 120 down, instead of 80 up + 80 down), It's for display signal only and doesn't work for bi-directional connections. Also oculink can go to Gen4 x8 which is 128Gb/s bi-directionally, which is a lot better.

 

[nicalandia]

Are you back from a vacation or something?

I have been very bussy.

 

[RnR_au]

PCIe is bidirectional. 120Gb in newer USB spec is one side bandwidth (40 up + 120 down, instead of 80 up + 80 down), It's for display signal only and doesn't work for bi-directional connections. Also oculink can go to Gen4 x8 which is 128Gb/s bi-directionally, which is a lot better.

Thunderbolt apparently also has a latency issue due to serialisation/deserialisation although I haven't seen anything that has put a value on it.

 

[A///]

16 core tr spotted! @ 5.17 Ghz

funny comment on the video cardz article saying that zen 5 really must be launching within a few months. it tracks only if you consider that zen 3 based tr 5995wx for example launched in early august '22.

 

[A///]

before after benches on the new and improved chipset drivers?