Discussion Speculation: Zen 4 (EPYC 4 "Genoa", Ryzen 7000, etc.)

[Vattila]

Except for the details about the improvements in the microarchitecture, we now know pretty well what to expect with Zen 3.

The leaked presentation by AMD Senior Manager Martin Hilgeman shows that EPYC 3 "Milan" will, as promised and expected, reuse the current platform (SP3), and the system architecture and packaging looks to be the same, with the same 9-die chiplet design and the same maximum core and thread-count (no SMT-4, contrary to rumour). The biggest change revealed so far is the enlargement of the compute complex from 4 cores to 8 cores, all sharing a larger L3 cache ("32+ MB", likely to double to 64 MB, I think).

Hilgeman's slides did also show that EPYC 4 "Genoa" is in the definition phase (or was at the time of the presentation in September, at least), and will come with a new platform (SP5), with new memory support (likely DDR5).

What else do you think we will see with Zen 4? PCI-Express 5 support? Increased core-count? 4-way SMT? New packaging (interposer, 2.5D, 3D)? Integrated memory on package (HBM)?

Vote in the poll and share your thoughts!

 

[poke01]

Intel is DEAD in the notebook/ultrabook segment

 

[poke01]

Awww no AI engine for Intel laptops chips... laughed a bit here

 

[RnR_au]

Intel is DEAD in the notebook/ultrabook segment

idk... a deleted tonne of sku's with 13th gen Intel and 4000 series nvidia have been announced at ces. But yeah remains to be seen how they sell.

Edit: oh... and on HP Australia site you can't buy a current gen AMD Elitebook... grrr...

Profanity is not allowed in the tech forums.
admin allisolm

 

[Paul98]

16 Core 32 Thread mobile CPU's

7800x3D, 7900x3D, and 7950x3D( 5.7 Ghz boost ) 120watt TDP

 

[JM Popaleetus]

Confirmed.

Gimme that 7900X3D.

 

[gdansk]

Lower TDP? Oh boy.

 

[Exist50]

Looks like those early rumors about closing the frequency gap with V-Cache, and even better scaling, were complete BS.

 

[RnR_au]

Entry level AM5 motherboards coming... can't find any details on this. No slides on this.

 

[Exist50]

Phoenix looks great. But no PHX2 (yet) from the rumors

 

[gdansk]

Looks like those early rumors about closing the frequency gap with V-Cache, and even better scaling, were complete BS.

For some parts. But not on others. The 7950X3D is lower TDP but same max boost frequency (remains to be seen how often it reaches it)

 

[Exist50]

For some parts. But not on others. The 7950X3D is lower TDP but same max boost frequency (remains to be seen how often it reaches it)

Seems like those clocks would be on the non-Vcache CCX. Wonder how the scheduler will handle such a weird split.

 

[RnR_au]

For some parts. But not on others. The 7950X3D is lower TDP but same max boost frequency (remains to be seen how often it reaches it)

The rumour is that the reported cpu speed is the speed of the non-vcache die.

 

[Saylick]

Looks like those early rumors about closing the frequency gap with V-Cache, and even better scaling, were complete BS.

Yeah, my guess is that the cache die is on the cheaper N6, which is holding back the clocks.

For some parts. But not on others. The 7950X3D is lower TDP but same max boost frequency (remains to be seen how often it reaches it)

You'll probably get 5.7 GHz on the 7950X3D, but it won't be on the V-cache die. But having both types of CCDs means you can use the higher clocking, non-V-cache die for general workloads and take advantage of the lower clocking (5 GHz) V-cache die for gaming and other latency sensitive workloads. This way, you get the best of both worlds for lightly threaded applications at the cost of slightly lower multi-threaded performance.

 

[Thunder 57]

The rumour is that the reported cpu speed is the speed of the non-vcache die.

That makes the 7800X3D kind of a dud since it will be limited to a single CCD that will have to give up a good amount of frequency.

 

[gdansk]

Seems like those clocks would be on the non-Vcache CCX. Wonder how the scheduler will handle such a weird split.

It's going to be weird. They might need something like Intel's thread director to discover if a process runs better with more L3 or more frequency.

 

[Saylick]

That makes the 7800X3D kind of a dud since it will be limited to a single CCD that will have to give up a good amount of frequency.

It will be like a more extreme version of the 5800X3D vs the vanilla 5800X. If you care about gaming, choose the 7800X3D. For general purpose workloads, get the 7700X.

 

[nicalandia]

Intel is DEAD in the notebook/ultrabook segment

Pretty much. 16 Cores with 3D V $$

 

[poke01]

idk... a shit tonne of sku's with 13th gen Intel and 4000 series nvidia have been announced at ces. But yeah remains to be seen how they sell.

Edit: oh... and on HP Australia site you can't buy a current gen AMD Elitebook... grrr...

Intel cpus are not as efficient in ultrabooks

 

[Exist50]

It's going to be weird. They might need something like Intel's thread director to discover if a process runs better with more L3 or more frequency.

I think it's even more complicated. Frequency vs cache sensitivity and scheduling decisions would require some really deep telemetry. Nothing like that on the market today, as far as I'm aware.

 

[RnR_au]

That makes the 7800X3D kind of a dud since it will be limited to a single CCD that will have to give up a good amount of frequency.

Remains to be seen if overclocking is verboten like the 5800X3D.

 

[Thunder 57]

Remains to be seen if overclocking is verboten like the 5800X3D.

I'm thinking it will be. And if it is, this chip will be DoA to many I believe.

 

[Exist50]

AMD is working with Microsoft on Windows optimizations that will work in tandem with a new AMD chipset driver to identify games that prefer the increased L3 cache capacity and pin them into the CCD with the stacked cache. Other games that prefer higher frequencies more than increased L3 cache will be pinned into the bare CCD.

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-unveils-three-ryzen-7000x3d-v-cache-chips-three-new-65w-non-x-cpus-too

This should certainly be interesting. Bets on whether those optimizations are W11 exclusive?

 

[poke01]

W11 exclusive?

100%

 

[tamz_msc]

Intel is DEAD in the notebook/ultrabook segment

You mean that Intel, who can actually SUPPLY chips to a wide range of product segments in the laptop market, will be affected by AMD's limited ability to supply the OEM market which historically hasn't been their focus until recently?

 

[Asterox]

I'm thinking it will be. And if it is, this chip will be DoA to many I believe.

No and no, 99% of people or PC users are either not interested in cpu overclocking(Intel K CPU-s) or do not deal with it.This is especially pronounced today, when most or fastest processors are stretched to the limit anyway.

You know why so many people buy the Ryzen 7 5800X3D.We have nothing to discuss, let's go for a beer.