speed demons, answer me this

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Ferzerp

Diamond Member
Oct 12, 1999
6,438
107
106
Please do not try and educate as you don't know what you're talking about. Another moron on the Internet with no real experience.

Another internet tough guy who gets all butthurt if you don't worship the almighty fox body.

 

Vic Vega

Diamond Member
Sep 24, 2010
4,535
3
0
Another internet tough guy who gets all butthurt if you don't worship the almighty fox body.



That's what I thought. Back to Wikipedia with you. Perhaps you can give us some more incorrect stats on subjects you know nothing about.

You may come to find out, the garage is not ATOT and there are many knowledgeable people here, bullshitters typically get called out.

Welcome to the list.
 

Ferzerp

Diamond Member
Oct 12, 1999
6,438
107
106
<cough>

http://www.ehow.com/list_7625460_1989-mustang-gt-specs.html

Ok, 3,200 lbs!

edit: you get really hostile at anyone who blasphemes the almighty fox body, huh?

edit: need more info: http://www.musclecardrive.com/ford/1989-ford-mustang-gt.php

edit2: Or maybe you want a bunch of mustang owners reporting weight? http://www.moddedmustangs.com/forums/5-0-mustangs/61196-1989-mustang-gt.html

"welcome to the list" of internet tough guys who make up facts and think hostility = correctness. (btw, next time you want to tell someone "go back to wikipedia" you might want to check and make sure the info that you are claiming comes from wikipedia actually is present on wikipedia)
 
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SilthDraeth

Platinum Member
Oct 28, 2003
2,635
0
71
At our county fair/carnival we have a ride called the gravitron, it looks like a flying saucer, you lean against a padded board that can slide up and down on the angled surface.

It spins, you get stuck to the padded board. You can still lift your arms, albeit it is very difficult, but it is enough force to hold you to the padded board. When I was a teen, I saw a guy, with permission, hold onto the center railing, and put his feet against the padded board on the side, and was able to stand perpendicular to the side of the ride once it spun up.

Basically, this thread sounds like a bunch of people trying to take a guy's "good ol times" exaggeration story and shit all over it with math, and physics, instead of just taking it for what it is, a tall tail of nostalgia.
 
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Vic Vega

Diamond Member
Sep 24, 2010
4,535
3
0
I agree, this story has been around since I was a kid at least and that was guys talking about their hot rods from the 40s and 50s.
 

yottabit

Golden Member
Jun 5, 2008
1,491
522
146
Impossible on a street car today too.

They're getting much closer now though.

Veyron can do low 2s, I've seen cars like the Aventador TT that can do it in real low 2s, I bet the right car with a 60 mph first gear and AWD with 4 DOT race slicks could at least break into the 1s. I thought I saw a Skyline once that claimed to be < 2 s
 

JCH13

Diamond Member
Sep 14, 2010
4,981
66
91
At our country fair/carnival we have a ride called the gravitron, it looks like a flying saucer, you lean against a padded board that can slide up and down on the angled surface.

It spins, you get stuck to the padded board. You can still lift your arms, albeit it is very difficult, but it is enough force to hold you to the padded board. When I was a teen, I saw a guy, with permission, hold onto the center railing, and put his feet against the padded board on the side, and was able to stand perpendicular to the side of the ride once it spun up.

Basically, this thread sounds like a bunch of people trying to take a guy's "good ol times" exaggeration story and shit all over it with math, and physics, instead of just taking it for what it is, a tall tail of nostalgia.

That's what the OP asked.

To specifically answer the question: a 3,000lb car would need about 1600hp to accelerate at 5gs from 40mph. Now, 1600hp is a doable number, but it would need tires with a coefficient of friction of well over 5 (only 2 driven wheels) which do not exist as far as I know.
 

Ferzerp

Diamond Member
Oct 12, 1999
6,438
107
106
That's what the OP asked.

To specifically answer the question: a 3,000lb car would need about 1600hp to accelerate at 5gs from 40mph. Now, 1600hp is a doable number, but it would need tires with a coefficient of friction of well over 5 (only 2 driven wheels) which do not exist as far as I know.


I think part of the problem is "tall tales of car nostalgia" in regards to performance made sense in the 80's and 90's when cars were crap because we were still recovering from the oil panic of the 70's, but technology couldn't compensate yet.

Now these fabled beasts of the past just look like brutish (ironic choice of words considering what I drive), masses of pure body-roll that really didn't accelerate all that impressively. There is no "cars performed best back then" anymore. Cars perform best now, and are advancing rather quickly as well, despite repeated concerns that only 4-cylinders will exist in X number of years.
 
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Squisher

Lifer
Aug 17, 2000
21,204
66
91
I think this would be very doable until the OP said "you couldn't move your arms." A lot of fast cars will keep your torso pinned in the seat where you couldn't lean forward and reach a strategically placed coin, but as far as not being able to move your arms, no.
 

GoatMonkey

Golden Member
Feb 25, 2005
1,253
0
0
Quote:
Carroll Shelby at the wheel of a new Cobra production car-- Venice, California, 1963. He loved to stick $100 bills to the inside of the windscreen and challenge the potential customer, sitting in the passenger seat, to grab the bill before the Cobra hit 100 mph.

http://theselvedgeyard.wordpress.co...l-shelby-ford-cobra-that-kicked-ferraris-ass/

That is exactly the quote I thought of when I read this. I think that Cobra challenge might be more difficult because it's over in less than 10 seconds and there are several brutal gear changes in there too. Also, what is involved in pulling the bill from the windscreen without ripping it? It might require some dexterity to remove with not enough time to do it even if you reach it. It depends on how it's attached, it would just blow away if it was sitting on the dash of a Cobra. And as several have said, you would have to lean forward from the seat to reach. The Cobra had little half height seats that don't go all the way up your back.
 

homercles337

Diamond Member
Dec 29, 2004
6,340
3
71
I think most people on the first page have completely misunderstood (even OPie). This is true. The "coin" is imaginary and its not the "arms" that cant come up, but rather the body out of the seat. If you have long enough arms to reach the dash without leaning forward out of your seat, you are some kind of freak.
 

pauldun170

Diamond Member
Sep 26, 2011
9,142
5,089
136
Back when I used to be fed that story of "dollar bill on the dashboard", it usually involved the following terms:
"Buddy"
"Nova\Trans Am"
"Beers"
"Sold it\crashed it\impounded\"

(BS stories always involved. )
 

phucheneh

Diamond Member
Jun 30, 2012
7,306
5
0
Now everyone calm down, I wasn't trying to belittle you. It is just a ridiculous notion that a car could be so fast that you can't raise your arms under the acceleration.

And I follow F1. The drivers do take their hands off the wheel to adjust brake bias etc. Modern F1 cars are not as powerful as they were during the turbo era which is why I mentioned that.

My apologies. I was just kind of playing 'devil's advocate' and saying 'well maybe someone could make the argument...' and then I took your response as undue condescension.

Even when I'm not trying to, I can be quite a dick (...though sometimes I'm trying). So it was a bit hypocritical of my to assume you were trying to 'put me in my place' or whatever.

On a more on-topic note, I do not follow F1, and was unaware they manipulated other controls. Obviously they didn't have the crazy shift mechanisms back in 'the day,' but I honestly thought the modern cars were the fastest, as far as acceleration goes...I thought it was just the top speeds that have come down- am I correct there?

Hard to imagine all those controls on the wheel (and I've seen busier ones, for sure) and still having to have other controls. I know if I was driving one of those cars, I'd probably grip nine and three until I left blood on the wheel.

(and also there would be shit in the seat.)
 

Ferzerp

Diamond Member
Oct 12, 1999
6,438
107
106
I think most people on the first page have completely misunderstood (even OPie). This is true. The "coin" is imaginary and its not the "arms" that cant come up, but rather the body out of the seat. If you have long enough arms to reach the dash without leaning forward out of your seat, you are some kind of freak.


You must have abs of silly putty if you can't lift your torso under less than 1g acceleration
 

phucheneh

Diamond Member
Jun 30, 2012
7,306
5
0
Oh, and as far as switching from 'lift arms' to 'lift body'....obviously whoever has the fastest car needs to go test.

FWIW, I was thinking more of my driving position, where I sit pretty damn bolt upright, with the seat surprisingly close for my long-legged, long-armed 6'3 frame...I don't like to feel like I'm 'reaching' with any of my limbs, so I generally get as close as I can without hitting my knees on the column or center console. I can definitely touch the dash. But the passenger side, as in most cars, is farther away, and the passenger tends to recline more.

So I can see it being debatable.

What about seat belts? Retractor should only lock under decel, AFAIK, but if you tried to throw your body forward to grab whatever-item on the dash, you'd probably still have an issue with a sticking belt.
 

JulesMaximus

No Lifer
Jul 3, 2003
74,534
911
126
My apologies. I was just kind of playing 'devil's advocate' and saying 'well maybe someone could make the argument...' and then I took your response as undue condescension.

Even when I'm not trying to, I can be quite a dick (...though sometimes I'm trying). So it was a bit hypocritical of my to assume you were trying to 'put me in my place' or whatever.

On a more on-topic note, I do not follow F1, and was unaware they manipulated other controls. Obviously they didn't have the crazy shift mechanisms back in 'the day,' but I honestly thought the modern cars were the fastest, as far as acceleration goes...I thought it was just the top speeds that have come down- am I correct there?

Hard to imagine all those controls on the wheel (and I've seen busier ones, for sure) and still having to have other controls. I know if I was driving one of those cars, I'd probably grip nine and three until I left blood on the wheel.

(and also there would be shit in the seat.)

No problem. I didn't mean to come off as a dick either. Sorry if you thought I was.

The FIA (governing body of Formula One) has been trying to make the sport safer for decades while keeping it interesting to the fans and challenging for the drivers. In the 1980s there were far less restrictions on the cars so the teams were pulling out all the stops to make the cars as fast and lightweight as possible. The turbo cars of that era were scary fast and the teams made special engines just for qualifying that were very powerful but not very reliable. They might only last a handful of laps and then the night before the race the mechanics would take the car apart and put in a fresh engine that was a little lower in power but more reliable. Those qualifying engines were rumored to put out almost 1200hp (which is very impressive for a 4 cylinder engine).

A modern F1 car makes around 800hp from a normally aspirated 2.4l V8 engine which is still quite a lot for a car that weighs approximately 1300lbs (640kgs is the minimum weight specified by the FIA which includes the weight of the driver).

Still, a modern F1 car can accelerate to 60mph in less than 2 seconds and pull about 1.4g under acceleration. Where they really shine is in cornering and braking though where they can exceed 5g of lateral acceleration and 4-5g deceleration under braking. The cars these days generate so much downforce and that is why they can achieve such impressive cornering speeds and why they are faster around the same track than the more powerful cars from the 80s and early 90s. Top speed is drag and gearing limited to a little over 200mph.
 
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thomsbrain

Lifer
Dec 4, 2001
18,148
1
0
Top Gear recreated the old "$20 bill on the windshield" sales tactic thing and the passenger couldn't reach it.
 

JackBurton

Lifer
Jul 18, 2000
15,993
14
81
They're getting much closer now though.

Veyron can do low 2s, I've seen cars like the Aventador TT that can do it in real low 2s, I bet the right car with a 60 mph first gear and AWD with 4 DOT race slicks could at least break into the 1s. I thought I saw a Skyline once that claimed to be < 2 s

It most likely was AMS's Alpha Omega GT-R, which claim they can hit sub 2 s 0-60.

Discussion
 

BurnItDwn

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
26,167
1,638
126
Fighter pilots sometimes go in excess of over 10Gs in extreme situations. Sometimes they black out.

Here's a simple question, how much does your arm way, how much weight can you lift with 1 arm?

add the two together, and divide by the weight of your arm, that's the number of G forces it will take to make your arm stuck in the down position.

if your arm is 10 pounds, and you can lift 100 pounds with 1 arm, then you would need at least 10 g's in order to to have your arm "stuck" down...

To achieve this kind of G force, we are looking at going from like 0 to 200 miles per hour in under a second. I'm not sure of the exact horsepower needed to achieve this kind of acceleration ... however, there's no tires on earth with close to enough traction to achieve that under ideal circumstances ...

So, your friend is full of shit, or he has very very very very very fat arms which are also very very very weak.
 

Vad3r

Senior member
Nov 25, 2000
274
0
0
well, this turned into a discussion.

Basically, this thread sounds like a bunch of people trying to take a guy's "good ol times" exaggeration story and shit all over it with math, and physics, instead of just taking it for what it is, a tall tail of nostalgia.

you know your right with this, I'm 44, my friends around the same. I believe this guy had a corvette, most likely around 1982-84. He told the story then, and continues it from time to time today. And 2-3 other guys back up him up on it. So ya, i was looking to call him out on his sh!t, in front of his buddies, based on, it's impossible.

I think everyone from time to time bullshits, but to smear icing and cherries all over it every time someone talks about something fast. It really irritates me. I've had enough, and thought i would ask, just how much horsepower this takes to be real.

Top Gear recreated the old "$20 bill on the windshield" sales tactic thing and the passenger couldn't reach it.

have a link, i google it, i can't find anything. Wish mythbusters had tried this, as it seems i am not the only one to hear this story. It could have been this, i just remember, you can't reach for the money no matter how hard you try. Thought it was a coin, could have been money taped to windshield.

Ok, so my 1989 Mustand wasn't that fast. But it was no station wagon either. However, i could reach for a coffee on the dash, with my foot on the floor and drink it.

There is simply no car that you can't reach for the money, and be street legal.

I looked up the shelby mustang link too, doesn't say if they could or couldn't grab the money.
 

disappoint

Lifer
Dec 7, 2009
10,132
382
126
If you can't lift more than 1.5, heck even 3 times your arm's weight, you belong in a hospital.

If you can't do ten situps your abs are super weak and you'll be pinned to your seat.
 
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