Spending Money & Happiness

NAC

Golden Member
Dec 30, 2000
1,105
11
81
Research and articles about how to get the most happiness from discretionary spending is to spend on experiences and not things. I mostly agree with this, but not fully. The example often given is to treat yourself to a nice dinner, or a vacation. You’ll appreciate that spending more later on than if you had bought something else like a lamp or a pair of shoes or a bathroom remodel instead of a vacation. Here is the gap I haven’t found mentioned in articles or research: Tools, and equipment that you experience like speakers, TVs, etc.

Other than travel, I want to spend most of my discretionary money on tools for my hobbies: cameras, lenses, video cameras, a good computer with good monitors to edit stuff on, and woodworking tools. A good lens gives me pleasure when using it because I like taking pictures. Over and over I’ll use that lens. And then I like looking at and using pictures: printing them, making books, sharing them, making videos. Depending on the situation, a well chosen $800 lens lets me take pictures I couldn’t otherwise take. Indeed, I think that is worth as much or more than a $800 vacation. I think I certainly derive more pleasure from it than from a handful of nice dinners. I would advocate the same for other kinds of tools people may use for hobbies: woodworking, art, for working on cars, etc. One trap people may fall into is buying a tool just to buy something as opposed to giving you the ability to do something you can’t already (or do it a good amount better). So for example, I’ve stopped buying lenses because basically I can do everything I want to be able to do.

The next item that I don’t see mentioned is quality equipment that is used for experiencing something. Mostly: audio equipment. You could also advocate quality TVs / projectors, and a gaming computer. We have music on in the kitchen most of the time, and it is good sounding music thanks to a pair of Wharfedale speakers and a decent amp. This setup would cost maybe $500 now, and I have enjoyed it almost every day for 7 years now. Worth much more than a few dinners to me or a weekend away, or say a pair of front row concert tickets.

Like for everything, spending on tools and audio/video/computer equipment has a bang for the buck curve. A $500 audio setup maybe much more pleasurable than a $50 bluetooth speaker. But stepping up to a $5000 setup may not bring that much more pleasure. I personally feel that my cheapo $300 50” TV is a good use of money, but a $2000 65” TV would not be. At least not now… I did buy a $2000 plasma TV back in 2004 which I think was worth it at the time. The same goes for vacations – just because it is a good use of money doesn’t mean you shouldn’t be aware of choices and take care accordingly. We spent maybe $3000 on a trip to Italy (about the cost of all my cameras & lenses). I consider the Italy trip and the equipment to both be good decisions and good buys. But a $12k trip to Hawaii, for me, would not be four times as pleasurable.

Thoughts?
 

lxskllr

No Lifer
Nov 30, 2004
57,713
7,954
126
I like to buy food. That makes me happy. I also like whisky, but the prices really jumped on that in the last ten years or so, and that doesn't make me happy.
 

Red Squirrel

No Lifer
May 24, 2003
67,986
12,403
126
www.anyf.ca
Interesting, I always felt the opposite, while it's nice to spend on an experience once in a while, once that experience is over, I then see that hole in my bank account and consider the more permanent things I could have spent that money on. Stuff like home improvements or big ticket items that I can enjoy for years to come. That said I still enjoy vacation/experiences once in a while too. When I am on a vacation I tend to splurge a bit, like if some kind of activity is expensive but I know I probably won't get to do that activity any time soon I just splurge on it. Like when I went to Canada's Wonderland it was like $65 to go on that giant swing thingy. A lot of money for a one time thing that will last like 30 seconds, but I just had to try it. Now that I got lasik I want to try it again next time I'm in that area, because I'll actually be able to see stuff.

Never been a fan of the whole fancy place/dining thing. If I'm on vacation I want to be able to wear shorts and tshirt and eat hamburgers or something.
 
Reactions: Ken g6

Exterous

Super Moderator
Jun 20, 2006
20,436
3,548
126
Research and articles about how to get the most happiness from discretionary spending is to spend on experiences and not things. I mostly agree with this, but not fully. The example often given is to treat yourself to a nice dinner, or a vacation. You’ll appreciate that spending more later on than if you had bought something else like a lamp or a pair of shoes or a bathroom remodel instead of a vacation. Here is the gap I haven’t found mentioned in articles or research: Tools, and equipment that you experience like speakers, TVs, etc.

Other than travel, I want to spend most of my discretionary money on tools for my hobbies: cameras, lenses, video cameras, a good computer with good monitors to edit stuff on, and woodworking tools. A good lens gives me pleasure when using it because I like taking pictures. Over and over I’ll use that lens. And then I like looking at and using pictures: printing them, making books, sharing them, making videos. Depending on the situation, a well chosen $800 lens lets me take pictures I couldn’t otherwise take. Indeed, I think that is worth as much or more than a $800 vacation. I think I certainly derive more pleasure from it than from a handful of nice dinners. I would advocate the same for other kinds of tools people may use for hobbies: woodworking, art, for working on cars, etc. One trap people may fall into is buying a tool just to buy something as opposed to giving you the ability to do something you can’t already (or do it a good amount better). So for example, I’ve stopped buying lenses because basically I can do everything I want to be able to do.

The next item that I don’t see mentioned is quality equipment that is used for experiencing something. Mostly: audio equipment. You could also advocate quality TVs / projectors, and a gaming computer. We have music on in the kitchen most of the time, and it is good sounding music thanks to a pair of Wharfedale speakers and a decent amp. This setup would cost maybe $500 now, and I have enjoyed it almost every day for 7 years now. Worth much more than a few dinners to me or a weekend away, or say a pair of front row concert tickets.

Like for everything, spending on tools and audio/video/computer equipment has a bang for the buck curve. A $500 audio setup maybe much more pleasurable than a $50 bluetooth speaker. But stepping up to a $5000 setup may not bring that much more pleasure. I personally feel that my cheapo $300 50” TV is a good use of money, but a $2000 65” TV would not be. At least not now… I did buy a $2000 plasma TV back in 2004 which I think was worth it at the time. The same goes for vacations – just because it is a good use of money doesn’t mean you shouldn’t be aware of choices and take care accordingly. We spent maybe $3000 on a trip to Italy (about the cost of all my cameras & lenses). I consider the Italy trip and the equipment to both be good decisions and good buys. But a $12k trip to Hawaii, for me, would not be four times as pleasurable.

Thoughts?

I think hobbies or things that involve continual time commitment that brings you happiness or contentment don't quite fit in the same category as physical objects by themselves. If you get a new woodworking tool to attempt a new technique or improve on your existing process that would be different than just getting a new couch because the sandy beach color goes better with the paint than the previous taupe. Also the increase in happiness is likely tied to the increase in new abilities with your activity like you mention with the speakers. Taking the step from phone camera to full frame DLSR will likely bring a larger impact than going from a Canon 6D to a Canon 5D mark IV despite relatively similar jump in expenditure between the two scenarios. This fits in with the theory that "money doesn't buy happiness - after a certain point" After a certain point (Roughly $75k according to some research) additional money doesn't really change your standard baseline happiness. So if its to add on to an activity you already do for enjoyment it may bring additional happiness up to a certain point. If the thing is used by you in more of a utility capacity changing it out likely won't make any meaningful impact. Since people have different opinions about what is a utility to them you'll get answers that vary.


Stuff like home improvements or big ticket items that I can enjoy for years to come.

Lots of stuff out there that points to "Hedonistic adaptation" - basically that you receive a boost in happiness when a thing is new but, over time, that new thing becomes common place and you revert back to or close to your original baseline happiness. An experience tends to be fleeting which prevents the adaptation to a 'new norm'.

That said the regression will vary. A new fancy 4 bed 4 bath house will likely matter more and do more to elevate the baseline happiness of someone living in a cardboard box than someone previously living in a 4 bed 3 bath house
 

FeuerFrei

Diamond Member
Mar 30, 2005
9,152
928
126
Yeah, spending on gear results in a higher standard of living. More amenities. More capability.

Spending on experiences just gives you a memory that fades and some talking points. Maybe short-lived bliss.

If you seek happiness, try behaving yourself, harmonious relationships with those around you, and being content with the things you have.
 

gsilver

Member
Jul 8, 2012
29
2
66
Happiness is relative.

I may have a 6-figure salary now, but I'm just as bored and lonely as I've ever been.

Albeit bored and lonely with the thermostat set higher, much better food, and all the god damn videogames I could ever want. Not "happiness" per say, but money sure did fix the cold and hungry that I grew up with. If only those videogames did a better job at fixing the "bored"...
 
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purbeast0

No Lifer
Sep 13, 2001
52,939
5,814
126
"Tools" or whatever you are talking about is still a physical item regardless of how you're trying to twist the words of it. Me personally, I'd take a vacation over a physical item pretty much 10/10 times. There are exceptions however and I do see what you are saying.

When I purchased my home theater equipment, I spent well over $10k on everything when it's all said and done. That could have been the once-in-a-lifetime vacation I plan on taking with my wife at some point to the French Polynesia area at some point. But at the time we had just bought a house and that was always a dream of mine. And my wife loves movies too so she was all on board with it. So I went all out.

It's now something I've had for nearly 4 years and we use it multiple times a week. I also can't wait for my 20 month old to reach the age he can enjoy it. We will spend countless hours down there together as a family, which will be experiences we will have together. Sure it's in a dark room and we're not talking while watching a movie, but it's still spending time together and experiencing entertainment together.

All in all it's all about balance though. And it's all about personal preference. Some people simply don't care about vacations/experiences, which I personally will never get, and I think a lot of people who make this claim simply haven't experienced something that they really like. All of my friends/family members who say they don't really care about traveling haven't really done it before so I can't blame them for thinking that way.
 

purbeast0

No Lifer
Sep 13, 2001
52,939
5,814
126
Lots of stuff out there that points to "Hedonistic adaptation" - basically that you receive a boost in happiness when a thing is new but, over time, that new thing becomes common place and you revert back to or close to your original baseline happiness. An experience tends to be fleeting which prevents the adaptation to a 'new norm'.
That is basically the "new car" feeling. Everyone loves a new car and the smell and how it makes you feel driving it, but it wears off fairly quickly in the grand scheme of things.

To this day I still talk about my very first trip out of the USA when I went to Aruba in 2005. Pretty much all of my trips that I've ever taken come up randomly in conversation throughout the year. I can't really say that about my $3000 DLP TV I bought back in 2004 though (although it just did come up in this conversation!).

Hell I randomly look at pictures from my old trips too. All of the group vacations I've taken with friends from like 2008 - 2013 come up very often as well, just remembering the good times. We bought a DVD of a snorkel trip we all took in Aruba in 2012 that we watch multiple times a year too.

Those memories are priceless.
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
48,522
5,343
136
Happiness is relative.

I may have a 6-figure salary now, but I'm just as bored and lonely as I've ever been.

Albeit bored and lonely with the thermostat set higher, much better food, and all the god damn videogames I could ever want. Not "happiness" per say, but money sure did fix the cold and hungry that I grew up with. If only those videogames did a better job at fixing the "bored"...

Money makes living more comfortable, but not more happy. There was an article about Notch, the creator of Minecraft, last year:

http://www.geekwire.com/2015/minecr...ed-gets-stung-by-jellyfish-does-not-find-god/

Sold his company for $2.5 billion, but ended up getting super depressed due to the isolation of wealth. Yeah it's a #firstworldproblem, but loneliness & boredom still exist no matter what your income is.
 

dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
25,243
3,651
126
A good lens gives me pleasure when using it because I like taking pictures. Over and over I’ll use that lens. And then I like looking at and using pictures: printing them, making books, sharing them, making videos.
Going out, taking photos, sharing them, etc is an experience. You just gave examples of experiences that give you the most pleasure.

Same with your audio example. Listening to music for 7 years is an experience, not an item.

That said, there are bits of item problems with those. You could have purchased $50,000 speakers instead of $500 and you probably would not have any more measurable happiness. So, the general concept still applies. Buy items that allow you to have great experiences, but don't go past that point in purchasing items. A $50,000 TV will be $1000 in a couple of years and will be out of date so you'll want another and will regret your waste of $49,000. But that doesn't mean you should skip buying a TV entirely.

In other words, buy items that enable experiences. I have $100 hideous and clumsy winter gloves (I think I got them for ~$50 on sale just after the winter season). Most people will consider that a complete waste of money. But they enable me to hike along mountain peaks in consistent 60 mph winds while raining sideways when it is 35°F. It isn't the item that was worth the money, but the item enables me to have the experiences that I crave.
 
Last edited:

dud

Diamond Member
Feb 18, 2001
7,635
73
91
Money has never made me happy and the experience (the "high") that I used to get when spending it has long passed. IMHO it is the lack of money that can lead to unhappiness. Once you reach a certain income level (it used to be $75K) your happiness level tends to plateau ... no matter how much more you make.

I just received my annual RMD from my inherited IRA (not a lot of money). It will buy a nice (material) Christmas for the family. For me, meh.

gsilver said: "Happiness is relative.

I may have a 6-figure salary now, but I'm just as bored and lonely as I've ever been.

Albeit bored and lonely with the thermostat set higher, much better food, and all the god damn videogames I could ever want. Not "happiness" per say, but money sure did fix the cold and hungry that I grew up with. If only those videogames did a better job at fixing the "bored"..."

Sir, we think along the same lines ... except for the vid games.
 

Elganja

Platinum Member
May 21, 2007
2,143
24
81
i find my true happiness having "experiences" with others... whether that be travel, home, eating, cars, etc...

i would be incredibly bored if I wasn't surrounded by an awesome gf, great friends and a loving family
 

purbeast0

No Lifer
Sep 13, 2001
52,939
5,814
126
I disagree big time with the plateau of happiness being reached at $75k. I hit that number when I was like 28. Now I make well into the 6 figures myself and combined with my wifes salary we make more than double that $75k number, and more money would definitely buy more happiness for us. It would just mean we could take even more vacations than we already do, to more exotic locations, more often. Which would in turn make our happiness levels go up.
 

dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
25,243
3,651
126
I disagree big time with the plateau of happiness being reached at $75k. I hit that number when I was like 28. Now I make well into the 6 figures myself and combined with my wifes salary we make more than double that $75k number, and more money would definitely buy more happiness for us. It would just mean we could take even more vacations than we already do, to more exotic locations, more often. Which would in turn make our happiness levels go up.
The $75k number was referring only to day-to-day contentment. That is, how is your normal daily life? That measurement generally doesn't get much better after that income level. But, the same study said that the overall life assessment does keep going up with more income. People are more satisfied with their life as a whole, but not happier on any given typical day.

I think you fit that description. Your normal daily life wouldn't be any happier, but you would have a more satisfying life with more vacations (which by definition aren't the normal days in your life).
 

purbeast0

No Lifer
Sep 13, 2001
52,939
5,814
126
The $75k number was referring only to day-to-day contentment. That is, how is your normal daily life? That measurement generally doesn't get much better after that income level. But, the same study said that the overall life assessment does keep going up with more income. People are more satisfied with their life as a whole, but not happier on any given typical day.

I think you fit that description. Your normal daily life wouldn't be any happier, but you would have a more satisfying life with more vacations (which by definition aren't the normal days in your life).
My "normal daily life" depends a lot on vacations though. They are dates that I look forward to and think about and it gets my mind into a certain mode. And then when I come back from them, my mind is refreshed as well and I'm ready to book my next trip.

If you mean like "enough money to get by" I still don't really agree with that. The more you make, the more fun you can have in every day life and on the weekends too during "normal daily life". Going out and spending $150 on a meal with my wife is still something I think about now with our current income, but something that we enjoy doing. If we made like $50k more, I'd probably do it a lot more than we currently do. Same with buying clothes, food at the grocery store, etc.

EDIT:

Also, location makes a big difference in that number which is probably why I think it's skewed. $75k in South Dakota will probably buy you a mansion. Whereas my current house cost us $420k so $75k doesn't go as far COL wise here as it does in many parts of the country.
 

Chaotic42

Lifer
Jun 15, 2001
33,929
1,098
126
My "normal daily life" depends a lot on vacations though. They are dates that I look forward to and think about and it gets my mind into a certain mode. And then when I come back from them, my mind is refreshed as well and I'm ready to book my next trip.

If you mean like "enough money to get by" I still don't really agree with that. The more you make, the more fun you can have in every day life and on the weekends too during "normal daily life". Going out and spending $150 on a meal with my wife is still something I think about now with our current income, but something that we enjoy doing. If we made like $50k more, I'd probably do it a lot more than we currently do. Same with buying clothes, food at the grocery store, etc.

Yeah, I'd be happier with more money - more toys, more nice dinners, nicer car, nice house, vacations... If we were talking $1M vs $1.1M per year I could see it, but I'm nowhere near the point of diminishing returns, and I live in one of the cheaper areas of the US.
 
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