Spindle Drives and RAID 0 - worth it?

[Modular]

Just picked up a pair of Samsung F3's:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...k=samsung%20f3

I was thinking about trying my hand at a RAID 0 array but the reviews of performance increases online are hit or miss. Is it worth it to RAID 0 these drives.

My OS is going to be on an SSD and these will hold programs, games, etc.

Specs are:

Biostar TA790GX 128m
Phenom II 920 (overclocked to 3.4)
Kingston SSDnow 64 GB (OS drive)
Samsung F3's (data and storage)

I will be backing this drive up automatically as well to an external source, so increased failure isn't really an issue. I'm more interested in whether or not this will make any real world impact.


Thanks!

 

[RaiderJ]

Sure - RAID0 is great if you want the combined space and speed of two disks and you have a backup plan in place. Run a single disk and do some tests, then add in the second and see what you get. Should be a noticeable improvement on sequential reads at the least.

 

[spinejam]

F3's in raid0 run nice -- my array has been rock-solid for over a year!

 

[Modular]

Can you just add a RAID array to an existing OS if the OS is installed on a separate drive?

I always thought it had to be done at the time the OS was installed.

 

[groberts101]

No you can't. Here's the easiest method without reinstalling.

make sure the current HDD is running in AHCI mode in the bios(do the IDE to AHCI reg hack if it's not).

Then install the Intel RST drivers(which are in fact compliant with AHCI mode as well) to the existing HDD's OS volume.

Now save that backup image to another backup drive for later recovery and set the bios to raid mode and build the raid array with 2 similar drives of choice. 32k stripe size should suffice as decent for OS duty all around.

Image the backup over to the new array and viola... no reinstallation is necessary.

Sounds like a lot but once you're through the initial learning curve?.. it's extremely simplistic in nature and saves big time over freshly setting everything up again.

 

[Modular]

No you can't. Here's the easiest method without reinstalling.

make sure the current HDD is running in AHCI mode in the bios(do the IDE to AHCI reg hack if it's not).

Then install the Intel RST drivers(which are in fact compliant with AHCI mode as well) to the existing HDD's OS volume.

Now save that backup image to another backup drive for later recovery and set the bios to raid mode and build the raid array with 2 similar drives of choice. 32k stripe size should suffice as decent for OS duty all around.

Image the backup over to the new array and viola... no reinstallation is necessary.

Sounds like a lot but once you're through the initial learning curve?.. it's extremely simplistic in nature and saves big time over freshly setting everything up again.

Thanks for the info, but my goal would be to add a RAID 0 array to a system that has W7 already installed on an SSD.

The OS wouldn't go on the array, the array would just be used for programs, etc.

Can this be done easily or at all?

 

[sequoia464]

Thanks for the info, but my goal would be to add a RAID 0 array to a system that has W7 already installed on an SSD.

The OS wouldn't go on the array, the array would just be used for programs, etc.

Can this be done easily or at all?

Easy - just set the bios to raid - hit the appropriate keys to get into the raid setup during boot, follow the instructions or refer to the manual to set up the raid. Boot the system and go to Administrative tools>Computer Management>Storage>disk management to to format the raided drives.

 

[Blain]

I'm more interested in whether or not this will make any real world impact.

You care about the actual "feel" of the system vs clinical benchmark scores... Correct?

Some programs show a significant improvement with a RAID 0 array but other programs may not show any improvement at all.
What are the main programs you use on a regular basis?

 

[groberts101]

yeah.. as sequoia said. easy-peazy.

Raided storage is the way to go these days since the data will write to the array as fast as the SSD can read from itself. The other way around would be more limited due to most SSD's writing a bit slower and latency involved for the HDD's to access it.

If you have a nicely matched fast SSD along with fast HDD array though?.. you will be amazed at the potential time savings it can offer. Especially if you're not afraid to write to your SSD on ocassion. Get's rid of the storage related bottlenecks that come with single HDD setups.

Raided SSD combined with even larger HDD arrays is awesome to behold. Might not need it?.. but sure is cool to watch a 5 gig video shoot from one volume to the other in just a few seconds. Multi-tasking ability increases big-time as well. Raid is the shizit and most won't be dissapointed.

 

[Modular]

Well I went with the RAID 0 array on these disks - tell me what you think:

http://i1109.photobucket.com/albums/h425/Cephas4/Benchmarks/HDTune_Benchmark_KINGSTON_SV100S264G.png



http://i1109.photobucket.com/albums.../HDTune_Benchmark_AMD_____20_Stripe_RAID0.png




It appears my F3 array wipes the floor with my SSD... Or maybe I'm looking at it wrong?

 

[FishAk]

Or maybe I'm looking at it wrong?

It depends on what you are looking at.

Sure, the spindle array is faster in sequential operations (read "large file execution"), but it's the small access time that gives the SSD it's magic.

Notice the access time on the HDD array is 11.6ms, while the SSD is only 0.3ms. Some SSD' have 0.0Xms- an order of magnitude less than the HDD.

Don't forget the SSD is set up in a RAID 0 array as well. Flash has much worse read and write performance than a magnetic disk, but the performance is improved by configuring many NAND circuits in a RAID 0 array.

 

[Emulex]

raid adds latency (to my slow velociraptor 4ms average) but if you stripe right you can get some insane speeds and capacity for dirt cheap.

 

[GoSharks]

Notice the access time on the HDD array is 11.6ms, while the SSD is only 0.3ms. Some SSD' have 0.0Xms- an order of magnitude less than the HDD.

FYI, 11.6 to 0.3 is 2 orders of magnitude.

 

[Cheeba]

Thanks for the info, but my goal would be to add a RAID 0 array to a system that has W7 already installed on an SSD.

The OS wouldn't go on the array, the array would just be used for programs, etc.

Can this be done easily or at all?

Modular, I also have 2 F3's I'd like to put in RAID0 for storage and use my 510 SSD for the operating system. I have not installed Windows yet. Is there a way to set this up without having to install windows twice, or doing some editing to the registry?

 

[Modular]

Modular, I also have 2 F3's I'd like to put in RAID0 for storage and use my 510 SSD for the operating system. I have not installed Windows yet. Is there a way to set this up without having to install windows twice, or doing some editing to the registry?

Here's what I did:

-Go into BIOS and setup RAID array
-Run W7 install disc
-Setup RAID drivers from USB key
-Select SSD (NOT the RAID array) as the install location for W7

Once I got Windows installed and updated, I went to disk manager and enabled/quick formatted the RAID array.

That was it!

 

[ecom]

I'm fairly certain that I was able to install two WD Greens in RAID0 on my computer with an existing Win7 install. I don't remember what I did though, I think I just added the array.

I have Intel chipset RAID FWIW though.

 

[Cheeba]

OK thanks Modular for listing the steps you took. Sounds simple enougf. I just need to copy the RAID drivers onto USB stick to load during the OS install.

I take it you installed W7 with the sata ports set to RAID and not AHCI? When should you install the Intel RST drivers, after the OS install, before setting up the array?

Sorry for the newb questions, getting my feet wet with my first build .

 

[Modular]

OK thanks Modular for listing the steps you took. Sounds simple enougf. I just need to copy the RAID drivers onto USB stick to load during the OS install.

I take it you installed W7 with the sata ports set to RAID and not AHCI? When should you install the Intel RST drivers, after the OS install, before setting up the array?

Sorry for the newb questions, getting my feet wet with my first build .

Not a problem at all - I had the same questions as this is my first foray into RAID and into SSD's.

I did install W7 with the Sata ports set to RAID. RAID, as it turns out is a superset of AHCI - this means that AHCI is enabled even if the ports are set to RAID.

I don't have an Intel chipset, so I didn't install those drivers. It appears that they are simply RAID/Storage drivers, so I would install them as you install Windows (at the start it asks you if you have any drivers that you want to load before installation starts; install them there).

Just to be clear - I "set up" my RAID configuration in the BIOS before I installed Windows. Then when installing Windows, I installed the RAID drivers. Once Windows was up and running, I activated/formatted the RAID array.

Does that make sense?

 

[Cheeba]

Makes perfect sense! Think I'm ready to dive in now. Definately a case of paralysis by analysis. Enough reading, I'm ready to hook some $%it up!

Again, appreciate the education :thumbsup:.

 

[exdeath]

CPUs and buses are pushing multi 10s and close to 100 GB/sec. Non volatile storage needs all the help it can get when even RAID 0 SSDs "only" do 1 GB/sec.

So yes, RAID 0 is ALWAYS worth it, until we have 128-256 GB+ of MRAM/FeRAM/Holographic Phase Change/ main RAM that allows us to move data as fast as the CPU can move it at 100% load and free ourselves and our ancient technology from the need for shitty 20th century 3rd tier non volatile data storage/retrieval media at all.

/rant

I work with LOTS of data on a daily basis and 90% of my work day is sitting on my hands watching hourglasses, progress bars, and hard drive lights that NEVER stop being lit up, and yes I'm freaking SICK of our shitty 60 year old data storage/retrieval mechanisms. If I were king of the world I would put a cease and desist order on the progress of CPUs , RAM, and motherboards, until all companies involved produced a satisfactory non volatile data storage system that caught up 1:1 with CPU/bus speeds. I'm tired of needing to move 100 GB of data in 5 mins yet knowing it's going to take at least 2 hours... no point in having 3 TB hard drives if you have to fill it up and empty it with an eye dropper for 7 days and nights. I find it disgusting that we now measure data in TERRABYTES, that is millions of MB, yet we still measure transfer rates in 10s of MB/sec. Pathetic relic of human technology, and no excuse for it. Yes, RAID 0 EVERYTHING.

/rant

 

[Modular]

Makes perfect sense! Think I'm ready to dive in now. Definately a case of paralysis by analysis. Enough reading, I'm ready to hook some $%it up!

Again, appreciate the education :thumbsup:.

Not a problem at all. How did everything turn out? Or are you still reading?

 

[Cheeba]

Not a problem at all. How did everything turn out? Or are you still reading?

Well everything is installed and RAID is setup. Went pretty smooth with the exception of an error on my part (forgot to initialize the array ).

Again thanks for the help.

 

[jhansman]

Pardon my reviving this thread, but being a total noob at RAID, I just want to be clear: I have Win7 already installed and running on my SSD, and have two 1TB Samsung F1s I'd like to setup in RAID 0 for storage (only one in use now, strictly for storage). My BIOS will let me set the two SATA ports so designated as such for RAID. Can I just add the second F1 and cable them both on the RAID ports? My goal here is to utilize the idle Samsung drive in a RAID 0 array. Also, any good online resources to help get up to speed on RAID? Many thanks.

 

[FishAk]

Can I just add the second F1 and cable them both on the RAID ports?

The actual implementation will depend on the RAID controller. In most cases, the answer is yes, but you will loose all data on both drives. This should not be a concern, since you should have backups to populate the array with once it's built.

 

[jhansman]

Right; whatever lives on the F1 I am now using needs to go elsewhere until I have the array setup, and then it will be restored to both drives (which, as I understand it, appears to the OS as single drive). One more question about this setup: as far as I can tell, the RAID drivers for my mobo are needed when the drives in question will hold the OS; how does this work when the drives don't hold the OS?