Spontaneous rebooting problem, THINK it's related to new AIW 9800 Pro

[computer]

Guys, I'm having a "spontaneous rebooting" problem, and I THINK it might be related to my new AIW 9800 Pro. I tried doing web searches on this and see it's a common problem, even with this video card, and I cannot find the answer! I'm hoping other 9800 series users had this problem and found a fix for it.

All temps are cool. I DO NOT game, the rebooting happens only when doing something like scrolling a webpage, saving something to my HD (EITHER one of them), sometimes opening a file or folder. First there's usually a lockup, then about a second later the PC reboots. Incredibly, impossible as it seems, anything that I have saved to either HD right before this IS DELETED, MISSING after the PC reboots!!

This is on XP Pro, PC details are in my signature file under "Rigs" (the "P4 2.4C @3.4ghz" setup). The only thing different is I'm running 2x512mb Geil PC4000 now and since they are crappy sticks I can only get 3ghz out it now.

There are no memory errors. Memory voltage is 3.0v. I didn't change ANYTHING on the PC or BIOS other than changing the AGP aperture size in the BIOS to 128mb (that of the video card), after installing the card. I was using an AIW Radeon 7500, and I did not uninstall it nor the drivers because it uses the exact same driver package as the other AIW Radeon cards. I thought this MIGHT be the issue, but since so many others are having the problem, I doubt that's the cause of it.

I really have no way of knowing if it's a PSU issue, I can't find out how much current/wattage the AIW 9800 Pro needs over that of the AIW 7500. The rebooting does not happen very often, and since it only started after installing the 9800 Pro several days ago, I think it's pretty obvious it is one these: the video card not getting enough power; or, some settings in the ATI Control Panel options/Display Properties area that need to be changed that did NOT have to be changed when using the AIW 7500*; or, the AIW 9800 needing a newer driver version than that of the AIW 7500**; or, (and I doubt this one) not removing the 7500 and uninstalling all the 'ware prior to the 9800 install.

* Since I'm not a gamer, I have no idea what all those dozens of settings are in the ATI Control Panel. I don't know which should be enabled or disabled for this card and my usage.
** As with all ATI users, I had nothing but driver and MMC problems with every ATI version except for MMC 9.02 and Catalyst 4.10. So obviously that's why I stuck with those versions, if they work, don't screw with 'em. BTW, Catalyst 4.10 is the package "wxp-w2k-catalyst-8-062-040929a-018115C.exe" which includes "Display Driver 6.14.10.6483". I never even wanted to TRY using any versions later than 4.12 because ATI went and forced people to have install that .NET crap which adds yet another XP Service that has to be running always in the background. :| So as far as a driver issue goes, I'm really not willing to try anything later than 4.12, UNLESS someone can prove or knows for a fact that this issue will be fixed by the latest drivers, or a driver version later than 4.12.

Another thing, is that I have no "SmartGart" tab anywhere!! In my searches, some have suggested to turn off "Fast writes" for this issue, but that's in the SmartGart tab, so I have no way of turning that off or on! What happened to that tab?? :Q

Thanks for any and all info.

 

[computer]

^

 

[Aoleleb]

First uninstall and reinstall the drivers. Even though they use the same package, their might be parts of the driver that are not installed when you have a AIW 7500 verses a AIW 9800 PRO. Second, go to the system properties > Advanced Tab > Start Up and Recovery Settings and turn off automatilly restart so you can see the BSOD when your computer freezes up so you can find out the error message. See if there are any errors in the log. That should point you in the right direction.

 

[gsellis]

First, just because you did not have a memory issue before, does not make it not a memory issue. System changes or applications can stress memory or even system cache 'just right' to create a issue.

Open Event Viewer and check the System log. A stop will be listed and the detail will possibly finger the culprit, which could be a driver. You can also change your system to halt in Blue Screens so that you can see the message. That is in System Properties, Advanced, Startup and Recover. Uncheck the automatic restart box.

 

[computer]

Originally posted by: Aoleleb
First uninstall and reinstall the drivers. Even though they use the same package, their might be parts of the driver that are not installed when you have a AIW 7500 verses a AIW 9800 PRO. Second, go to the system properties > Advanced Tab > Start Up and Recovery Settings and turn off automatilly restart so you can see the BSOD when your computer freezes up so you can find out the error message. See if there are any errors in the log. That should point you in the right direction.

Thanks but that's already unchecked and it still just reboots. Also, there never is anything in the Event Viewer regarding the crash/reboot. Even if I was able to see a BSOD, it would be meaningless......as they all go. :disgust: Over the years I've looked up hundreds of BSOD's and never once found one in any search.

 

[computer]

Originally posted by: gsellis
First, just because you did not have a memory issue before, does not make it not a memory issue. System changes or applications can stress memory or even system cache 'just right' to create a issue.

Open Event Viewer and check the System log. A stop will be listed and the detail will possibly finger the culprit, which could be a driver. You can also change your system to halt in Blue Screens so that you can see the message. That is in System Properties, Advanced, Startup and Recover. Uncheck the automatic restart box.

Thanks....covered this in my last post. Nothing in the Event Viewer and there are no BSOD's, and the auto restart box has never been checked.

 

[computer]

Originally posted by: gsellis
First, just because you did not have a memory issue before, does not make it not a memory issue. System changes or applications can stress memory or even system cache 'just right' to create a issue.

If it is memory, why would it only start happening after the new video card was installed? There were no "system changes", and all the apps are the same.

The first thing I'm going to do is the drivers, since I'm on a temporary HD and have to format on a new WD740 anyway. But I'd like to get this resolved before that in the event it is software related or driver related, then I'd need to get the correct drivers installed that fix this issue.

Does anyone have any input on the SmartGart tab missing?

 

[Aoleleb]

You can't rule out the memory untill you run memtest86 or a utility like that. But i don't think that is it. You really need to uninstall and reinstall the drivers. I havn't had any problems running the latest ATI drivers, but i don't have AIW and when i had a ati tv tuner i hated the MMC, but that isn't related to the SmartGart tab. I think the drivers are to old for the SmartGart tab, I can't remeber exactly when they put in that tab.

You may also want to try to set the agp apature back to 64mb and see if that helps any.

 

[Aoleleb]

Have you tried checking your HD for errors?

 

[computer]

Originally posted by: Aoleleb
You can't rule out the memory untill you run memtest86 or a utility like that. But i don't think that is it. You really need to uninstall and reinstall the drivers. I havn't had any problems running the latest ATI drivers, but i don't have AIW and when i had a ati tv tuner i hated the MMC, but that isn't related to the SmartGart tab. I think the drivers are to old for the SmartGart tab, I can't remeber exactly when they put in that tab.

You may also want to try to set the agp apature back to 64mb and see if that helps any.

I think you missed this in my original post:
There are no memory errors.

I remember having the SmartGart tab there before, and I think it was on some pretty old drivers. FAIK they could have removed them, put them back, and removed them again.

Problems I had in the past with their drivers were mainly related to the MMC. Mine used to crash all the time when trying to open it, and trying to close it. MMC v9.02 was the most stable for me. You also have to have the correct WDM drivers. Their drivers BS is very confusing. I don't know what they just don't have the ENTIRE PACKAGE available in ONE DOWNLOAD, (as well as segments which they already have).

I'll try the AGP aperture change, thanks. This is interesting....
http://www.adriansrojakpot.com/Speed_Demonz/New_BIOS_Guide/AGP_Aperture_Size.htm

 

[computer]

Originally posted by: Aoleleb
Have you tried checking your HD for errors?

Yep. Just the usual "removing unused indices" and "security descriptors", "resizing bitmap image" stuff.

 

[lopri]

My recommendation: Give up AIW and get a regular card with a TV tuner. I've been burned by ATI's WDM drivers twice in the past.

 

[cptstern]

I had the same issue with a AIW 9600 Pro. I did everything that you have done or was suggested to you and couldn't find a solution. I even tried a better case and power supply. I finally just gave up and bought a new MB and processor and rebuilt the box. No problems since.

Do you have a MSI motherboard by chance?

 

[computer]

Originally posted by: cptstern
I had the same issue with a AIW 9600 Pro. I did everything that you have done or was suggested to you and couldn't find a solution. I even tried a better case and power supply. I finally just gave up and bought a new MB and processor and rebuilt the box. No problems since.

Do you have a MSI motherboard by chance?

No MSI, Asus:
PC details are in my signature file under "Rigs" (the "P4 2.4C @3.4ghz" setup). The only thing different is I'm running 1gb (2x512mb) Geil PC4000 now and since they are crappy sticks I can only get 3ghz out it now.

I meant to check the mobo for the leaky cap syndrome before I started today, but forgot. I'll do that shortly. I have a backup mobo if that is the problem.

 

[computer]

Originally posted by: lopri
My recommendation: Give up AIW and get a regular card with a TV tuner. I've been burned by ATI's WDM drivers twice in the past.

What kind of problems did you have with the drivers?

That's a VERY subjective area. I tried that, 3 different TV tuner manufacturers and hated them all. Each had a really bad flaw. Some examples being: going to FULL SCREEN every time a channel was changed! Undockable TV controls; every time you'd want to move the TV window, you had to go back to where it was and drag the freakin' controls to the new position of the TV window! (That's avoidable with the MMC by using the "Classic" skins). Or, just not having the features of the MMC like "Hot Words", "TV Magazine", a load of various DVR settings, et al.

I never had ANY issues with my AIW 7500 once I found the right drivers and MMC version. The reason I changed is I wanted to make use of the 8x AGP slot, AND, I was getting some bad "stuttering" with a lot of apps running when I'd drag windows around. The AIW 9800 not only fixed all that, but it's actually SHARPER, which was a surprise to me. Images and graphics are sharper with it, and it indeed is MUCH MUCH noticeably faster.

 

[computer]

Well I just went several days with no reboots, and I had the damn Asus PCprobe running monitoring everything. Yesterday I shut the SOB down and wouldn't you know it, moments ago my @#$%! PC just "died" again! This time it wasn't a reboot but a shutdown of the monitor! The screen went blank, the yellow LED came on the monitor, but ALL FANS were still running, as well as all lights, my DigiDoc5, all running! It was exactly like someone just disconnected the monitor cable!! The DigiDoc5 showed all OK on fans and voltages while it was down!! All I could do was hit the reset the button to restart the PC, or holding down the power switch to shut it off then turn it back on would have also worked.

So what does this sound like, PS problem or video card problem? (I just ordered a Sintek 500SLI so if it's PS related that would fix it).

 

[NYHoustonman]

This sounds almost exactly like a power supply problem I had back in the day going from a Voodoo 3 to a GeForce 4 (in fact, it sounds exactly like it)... Although you do have a 400 Watt power supply, and my 9800 pro runs stabely on my 330 Watt one. If you have any way of checking that that is the problem (maybe try a different power supply or something), then I would do that.

 

[computer]

Originally posted by: NYHoustonman
This sounds almost exactly like a power supply problem I had back in the day going from a Voodoo 3 to a GeForce 4 (in fact, it sounds exactly like it)... Although you do have a 400 Watt power supply, and my 9800 pro runs stabely on my 330 Watt one. If you have any way of checking that that is the problem (maybe try a different power supply or something), then I would do that.

Thanks. Do you remember the 12v rail current on you 330 watt PS? Or at least the model # then I can look it up. It's possible it has more on the 12v than mine. My new PS was shipped out yesterday, so there's no point in hooking up another one, I'll just have to wait until it arrives. Also, the problem is so damn sporadic and intermittent it may take a week after I install the new one to know if that fixed it.

 

[computer]

NYHoustonman? :clock:

 

[computer]

^

 

[computer]

NYHoustonman are you still around?

Thanks. Do you remember the 12v rail current on you 330 watt PS? Or at least the model # then I can look it up. It's possible it has more on the 12v than mine. My new PS was shipped out yesterday, so there's no point in hooking up another one, I'll just have to wait until it arrives. Also, the problem is so damn sporadic and intermittent it may take a week after I install the new one to know if that fixed it.

 

[computer]

FWIW if anyone is interested, I heard back from Sintek on these matters:

Q: Why do your adjustable pots have the labels of "Memory"
and "PCI-E" instead of "3.3v" and "12v"?
A: We used this printing scheme for easier understanding of
what the voltage knobs is used for. Some end users may
require a simpler understanding of the voltage knobs.

Seems like they confused things by calling them "Memory" and "PCI-E" rather than simplifying it!


Q: Reviews on the units are saying the "Memory" pot does
indeed adjust the ENTIRE 3.3v rail, and the "PCI-E" also does
indeed adjust the ENTIRE 12v rail! So the labeling is rather
misleading or at least confusing, isn't it? How can adjusting
one or both of these pots affect the 5v rail? According to the
reviews, it does! Why not have a pot for the 5v rail?
A: The memory knob adjusts the 3.3v rail only, and the PCI-e
knob adjusts the 12v & the 5v rail. PCI-express power is off the
12v rail which is why we needed to include the 5v rail into it,
because some components within the computer may not have
gotten its voltage requirement, so it was necessary to tie the 5v
rail into the 12v rail.

Q: Something else rather confusing, is that the Vdimm (memory
voltage) is controlled by the BIOS on a mobo (if it has adjustable
Vdimm of course). If for example one sets the Vdimm
voltage in the BIOS to 2.85v, then what happens to the voltage
going to the memory when the "Memory" pot and is adjusted, and
what happens to the voltage at that pot when the Vdimm is
adjusted in the BIOS?? Since decent mobo's have a memory
voltage regulator, and controlled by the BIOS, we don't
understand how the "Memory" pot can affect the Vdimm. For an
example, my Vdimm on my mobo is set to 2.85v, but I also use
the "OCZ DDR Booster" which gives you more Vdimm voltage over
the default of a BIOS. I have it set to 3.0v, so my memory is
getting 3.0v. So my understanding is that it will always be
~3.0v regardless of the 3.3v rail, correct?
A: Correct, if you choose to increase voltage by hardware,
it prioritizes over software, which means that if you increase the
voltage knob over our PSU and the OCZ DDR booster, you will get
an incredible amount of voltage being sent to your DDR. we suggest
using a physical voltage meter to take results, our power supply can
give you great results if you use the right hardware to check voltages
and settings. Take for instance, my personal machine uses Mushkin
Redline DDR and the great thing about my memory is that it can be
seriously overclocked up to 3.5 volts, I can adjust my bios to adjust
the timings but my bios only goes up to 2.8v for the Vdimm, so I went
ahead and increased my memory knob to max allowing my overclocked
memory to be properly powered via hardware, not software.

So is the correct accurate amount of voltage going to the memory still what is seen on the LED of the OCZ DDR Booster?


Q: Finally, regarding the "PCI-E" pot. If one is using an AGP
card that requires the 12v dongle (like a PCI-E card by a
different connector, both still using the 12v rail), and AGP
and or PCI-E voltage is controlled by the BIOS, and that
voltage is around 1.5v to 1.7v, then how can adjusting the
"PCI-E" 12v pot affect voltage to the video card? For one
example on this, I use an ATI AIW 9800 Pro AGP 8x, and in my
BIOS it is set to 1.7v. My understanding on this is it will
always be ~1.7v regardless of the 12v rail, correct?
A: That is correct for that video card, however if you wanted to
overclock the video card (and if your video card allows it) you
can overclock the speed of the video card as necessary, however
you will need to increase voltage to the video card, take for instance,
my video card in one of my machines is a ATI x850xl PCI-e, by
default it is set at 550mhz I believe, and I overclocked it to 580mhz
for better performance. The Sintek power supply allows me to
physically adjust my PCI-e voltage rail (12v rail) to meet the
required voltage requirement of the overclocked video card.

I don't understand that. If I am "correct" with what I asked, then adjusting the 12v "PCI-E" knob should have no effect on the card's 1.7v voltage! Is this because mine is AGP and his is PCI-E? Don't PCI-E cards have a similar voltage adjustment area in the BIOS? If so, is it in the range of 1.5v or 12v?

 

[computer]

I just now got another spontaneous reboot with the NEW POWER SUPPLY! First one! I don't get it!! :disgust:

 

[akugami]

What kind of PSU did you order? Brand, wattage rating, model number also.

First and foremost. Return your computer to stock voltages and stock clock speeds on everything. No overclocking at all for the duration of the troubleshooting. This eliminates a part being faulty due to stress by overclocking.

Next, make sure your motherboard has the latest drivers and bios updated for that motherboard. If you're running a nForce4 based mobo, make sure you DO NOT install their IDE drivers or their firewall software. Uninstall those if you did have them.

Download the latest relevant drivers for the video card. Download and install Driver Cleaner Pro. Uninstall your video card drivers. Reboot into safe mode (push F8 during reboot). Run Driver Cleaner Pro and elminate all traces of old video card drivers. Reboot into normal desktop and re-install the video drivers.

If problem persists, unplug everything and then reseat them. Everything from power plugs to data cables (IDE, SATA, etc). If it's plugged in, pull it out and then firmly reseat it.

If problem still persists, try uninstall everything from your computer case and inspecting the motherboard and video card for physical damage and possibly bad capacitors. Try and run the computer on a static free surface outside of your case to eliminate the possibility of a grounding issue inside the case.

Finally if the problem is still there and you have an extra hard drive, or an extra partition on your hard drive, try doing a completely clean install of windows on it and booting from that partition. Install all the normal drivers you would need, like motherboard drivers and video card drivers. Keep it as simple of an install as possible. See if the problem persists.

 

[computer]

Originally posted by: akugami
What kind of PSU did you order? Brand, wattage rating, model number also.

First and foremost. Return your computer to stock voltages and stock clock speeds on everything. No overclocking at all for the duration of the troubleshooting. This eliminates a part being faulty due to stress by overclocking.

Next, make sure your motherboard has the latest drivers and bios updated for that motherboard. If you're running a nForce4 based mobo, make sure you DO NOT install their IDE drivers or their firewall software. Uninstall those if you did have them.

Download the latest relevant drivers for the video card. Download and install Driver Cleaner Pro. Uninstall your video card drivers. Reboot into safe mode (push F8 during reboot). Run Driver Cleaner Pro and elminate all traces of old video card drivers. Reboot into normal desktop and re-install the video drivers.

If problem persists, unplug everything and then reseat them. Everything from power plugs to data cables (IDE, SATA, etc). If it's plugged in, pull it out and then firmly reseat it.

If problem still persists, try uninstall everything from your computer case and inspecting the motherboard and video card for physical damage and possibly bad capacitors. Try and run the computer on a static free surface outside of your case to eliminate the possibility of a grounding issue inside the case.

Finally if the problem is still there and you have an extra hard drive, or an extra partition on your hard drive, try doing a completely clean install of windows on it and booting from that partition. Install all the normal drivers you would need, like motherboard drivers and video card drivers. Keep it as simple of an install as possible. See if the problem persists.

please excuse no caps and short phrases. cut my finger bad on razor blade and need stitches, need to go to dr.

psu mentioned earlier in thread i think, sintek 500SLI, $130! see my setup under "rigs" in sig file, last setup. been running like that for years, except now only running 3ghz, not 3.4ghz anymore due to new pos ram won't o'clock.

will read and reply to rest of your post asap when i can type.