Spore / DRM / EA / PC Game Industry

[BD2003]

Originally posted by: warcrow
What's up guys. Just wanted to give everyone a heads up that I worked with Ars on some DRM investigation (I'm using that term lightly) and installed Spore a rediculous amount of times on several machines, talked with EA tech support, and reported my findings.

You might be surprised what we found out.

Putting EA's DRM to the Test

Although its a bit of a moot point with the upcoming revoke tool, I'd be quite a bit more interested to see what happens if you changed major hardware such as video cards or the OS on a machine that has it currently installed. Their DRM faq for the game did say that certain hardware changes can effect the activation. For instance:

For example:
- install spore on XP and upgrade to Vista
- install to both partitions of a dual boot XP/Vista PC
- change from onboard video to an nvidia card to an ati card
- image the drive its installed on and replace the HD in the PC
- image the drive its installed on and move it to another, preferably radically different, PC
- if you wanna get really wacky, install it in a VM inside of a PC that already has it installed in the host OS

I've always known based on the EA faqs that you could install it a zillion times on the same PC, but it was never clear when your system would be considered a "new PC" by the DRM. That was the real fear for me at least - not that I had three PCs to install it to, but that over time, my system would change enough for it to be considered more than three PCs.

 

[coloumb]

Originally posted by: Maximilian

Oh yeah, the people who bought spore are so lucky to have EA cater for their need for further installs etc, EA has shown itsself time and again it can be trusted to support its products aftermarket and that it cares for its customers....

Get a clue. EA sucks.

My comment was a generalization regarding what DRM is heading towards - a STEAM based digital distribution model - a completely digital format where you can't resell your game unless you sell your account [which they will probably include a restriction that you can't sell your account without authorization].

This is why I say it now - consider yourself lucky that you can still re-sell your games because you probably won't have that luxury within a few years...

 

[Bateluer]

EA Admits DRM Botched Spore Launch

Washington Post says the damage is already done.

Electronic Arts ( NSDQ: ERTS) has owned up to the mess it created with the DRM-heavy launch ofSporelast week? a fracas that may actually have cost the gaming giant as much as $25 million in missed revenue. Gamers angry with the "draconian" content protection features opted out of the $50 a pop forSporeand copped it illegally instead, to the tune of an estimated 500,000 downloads across various BitTorrent sites. In fact, peer-to-peer research firm Big Champagne called the speed at which gamers downloaded pirated copies "extraordinary."

-- Buyers worry that the game's SecurROM copy protection software is actually installing spyware on their computer."There's no viruses, no spyware and no malware," the spokesperson said. "The thing I would say to the consumer audience is that, if you're concerned with a virus on your computer, the chances of that are infinitely higher when you're downloading off of a hacked version than it would be downloading the authentic game. We would never put any spyware on anyone's computers. That's not going to happen."

EA brass sidestepped questions about whether the slew of 1-star reviews on Amazon were from legitimate consumers or pirates, as well as why the DRM and online authorization policies were so strict. The spokesperson also shed some light on Spore's rate of sales, touting that there had been at least 435,000 activations (representing only a "sample" of sales)?with a majority coming from one machine?as of Tuesday.

Wrong EA, your DRM is the very definition of malware. The people have told you their opinions on DRM, and you'd better listen or you'll only lose more money in the future.

 

[Canai]

More DRM = less games sold + more games pirated = more DRM = less games sold + more games pirated = more DRM etc...

 

[PsharkJF]

The SecuROM "sky is falling" people remind me an awful lot of Ron Paul supporters - and I'm just as tired of hearing it.

 

[nismotigerwvu]

My 2 cents,
It isn't the concept of DRM that bothers me, it is the execution in this case. I'm perfectly fine with Steam, Xbox Live, and other content systems with DRM, but when the protection system itself is this invasive you have to draw the line.
Think about this, you only have so many install of the program. The DRM system itself has been known to bork windows installs. The DRM system necessitate enough system formats that the copy of the game is no longer valid. That is why I will never buy a title with infectious DRM.

 

[Schadenfroh]

EA changes SPORE's DRM

Gibeau went on to outline specific changes to the current DRM policy:

* The number of eligible machines will be expanded from three to five.
* EA will continue to offer channels to request additional activations where warranted.
* The ability to de-authorize machines and move authorizations to new machines.

 

[mindcycle]

Originally posted by: Schadenfroh
EA changes SPORE's DRM

Gibeau went on to outline specific changes to the current DRM policy:

* The number of eligible machines will be expanded from three to five.
* EA will continue to offer channels to request additional activations where warranted.
* The ability to de-authorize machines and move authorizations to new machines.

I'm glad they're at least listening to their customers now. Spore probably didn't sell as well as they hoped and that may be the only reason for this, but it's at least something.

I do find this funny..

?We?re extremely pleased with the reception SPORE has received from critics and consumers but we?re disappointed by the misunderstanding surrounding the use of DRM software and the limitation on the number of machines that are authorized to play a single a copy of the game,? said Gibeau. He also implied that much of the criticism is ?noise? from game pirates, ?while it?s easy to discount the noise from those who only want to post or transfer thousands of copies of the game on the Internet, I believe we need to adapt our policy to accommodate our legitimate consumers.?

Why would pirates criticize a game they got for free? I'm sure it happened a few times but I doubt it's accounts for much of the "noise".. What I read more of were legitimate customers unwilling to buy the game, or ones who did buy it and ran into problems. Just another diversionary tactic from our "friends" at EA. What they need to do is just admit they fucked up and were screwing legit customers, quit blaming pirates for everything. Lets hope this applies for all their games and not just Spore.

 

[Skott]

Kinda funny how the guy says its the pirates that are making a fuss.

"He also implied that much of the criticism is ?noise? from game pirates, ?while it?s easy to discount the noise from those who only want to post or transfer thousands of copies of the game on the Internet, I believe we need to adapt our policy to accommodate our legitimate consumers.?

So according to him if you are complaining about DRM then you are a pirate. ::rolls eyes::

 

[wanderer27]

I'm even more aggravated by what's going on with this now.

The initial impression I got was that they were removing the install limit (small step IMO).
Now it's become clearer that they just raising it to five and (supposedly) are going to provide a revoke for uninstalls - BFD.

They have expanded the number of user accounts, which sounds like it should have been a non issue in the first (printed in manual, designed into game menus).

It just really sounds like they're jerking people off, and we can count full and well the next game out the door's going to be loaded down with the same BS.

 

[imported_protoz]

I hate DRM mostly because it only hurts legitimate customers. Pirates will crack the DRM before or just after the release of a game and some times it even runs better without the DRM holding the game back.

Reinstall limits? Get the crack for it and reinstall it as many times as you want.
Don't want to have the dvd in your drive all the time for media checks? Find a cracked executable so you can prevent wear and tear on your disc and drive.

If anything having these limits on games makes me want to pirate them because they already figure I'm a criminal before opening a retail box. I'm not renting a game, I'm buying one.

Instead I'll just not pick up games with those limitations which means no more EA games on PC for me.

 

[Maximilian]

Why would pirates criticize a game they got for free? I'm sure it happened a few times but I doubt it's accounts for much of the "noise".. What I read more of were legitimate customers unwilling to buy the game, or ones who did buy it and ran into problems. Just another diversionary tactic from our "friends" at EA. What they need to do is just admit they fucked up and were screwing legit customers, quit blaming pirates for everything. Lets hope this applies for all their games and not just Spore.

My friends a pirate, he said the game sucked, i agreed with him.

 

[b4u]

Originally posted by: Maleficus
that IS NOT IN NO WAY SHAPE OR FORM $2,500,000. 98% of those people wouldn't buy the game. a percentage I won't even guess at won't buy the game without trying it, thus increasing sales if they decide they like the game and go and buy it.

Piracy isn't a problem, it's a tool used to evaluate the worth of a game to help you spend your resources wisely on a frivolous and out of control market that has drastically decreased in quality and is showing no signs of reversing that trend.

Agreed.

Piracy isn't a problem. Game quality and prices are.

Put all game prices to 20$ most, send the DVD on a card protector, include manuals as PDF. That way costs would be reduced. As the art on the DVD itself ... just plain blank with the game title in it, and the company that develops/produces it. Simple, as I don't see it while playing ... and also not when it is stored on the shelf.

I'd buy 100% more games than I do today.

There are games that I think are okay, not great, but okay ... I will not give 50$ for them, but I'll be okay to give them 20$ ... for 50$, i'll just try it first with a friends original copy ... then ... well i don't bother.


Edit:

There is just one way to fight piracy, which is by stealing it's clients ... the same way they do steal original purchases nowadays. If I can buy a game for less than half the price of today, why would I bother downloading a copy? Unless I don't like the game much, which wouldn't translate into a legal copy anyway ...

Also to add to the 20$ idea, if copy protections aren't present, the DVD production gets cheaper. If I can even download the game for 10-15$ ... then I would ... and I would burn my own legally-payed-and-downloaded-copy to a backup DVD ...

They would get less profit for each copy, but they would sell a bunch more copies ... even if they don't reach the same profit as today (which I really don't believe they would), they would have a minimal piracy percentage.

 

[mindcycle]

Originally posted by: Maximilian
Why would pirates criticize a game they got for free? I'm sure it happened a few times but I doubt it's accounts for much of the "noise".. What I read more of were legitimate customers unwilling to buy the game, or ones who did buy it and ran into problems. Just another diversionary tactic from our "friends" at EA. What they need to do is just admit they fucked up and were screwing legit customers, quit blaming pirates for everything. Lets hope this applies for all their games and not just Spore.

My friends a pirate, he said the game sucked, i agreed with him.

Well I think the EA guy was saying most the the DRM criticism was from pirates. My response to that was why would pirates criticize DRM if they didn't have to deal with it? Anyway it goes, EA is just plain retarded.

On a side note, I just checked some release dates for the fall and there are lots of good games that aren't being published by EA. If you don't want to support them but still want to pick up some games it's good news for you.

Fallout 3 - Bethesda Softworks
Far Cry 2 - Ubisoft
Left 4 Dead - Valve
Rise of the Argonauts - Codemasters
Tomb Raider Underworld - Blizzard Entertainment

..and those are just the ones that i'm looking forward to, there are many more.

 

[mindcycle]

Wow..

http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/list/3869.page

 

[wanderer27]

Originally posted by: mindcycle
Wow..

http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/list/3869.page

Or this one:

http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/list/4825.page


Looks like it's getting ugly over there.

 

[Canai]

Originally posted by: wanderer27

Originally posted by: mindcycle
Wow..

http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/list/3869.page

Or this one:

http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/list/4825.page


Looks like it's getting ugly over there.

LOL good to see EA learned from the Bioshock fiasco. :roll:

 

[Bateluer]

Hehe, whats a billboard advert cost for, say, a month? Could erect a nice large advertisement calling for an EA boycott and protesting DRM right outside EA's corporate HQ.

 

[mindcycle]

Originally posted by: wanderer27

Originally posted by: mindcycle
Wow..

http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/list/3869.page

Or this one:

http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/list/4825.page


Looks like it's getting ugly over there.

Yeah, they're closing threads all over the place over there. I just saw a thread that had a poll for people who's games were constantly crashing. The poll was 66% or something like that for "Yes". It was closed with the explanation of "this doesn't contribute to reasonable discussion of the game Spore", or something along those lines.

I wonder how much money has been spent paying people to moderate those forums and close all the "questionable" threads? haha, what a joke this is all turning out to be. All because of EA and their genius new DRM system.. They're just keeping up with industry standards, right? .. lol

 

[coloumb]

Originally posted by: wanderer27

Originally posted by: mindcycle
Wow..

http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/list/3869.page

Or this one:

http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/list/4825.page


Looks like it's getting ugly over there.

LOL -the 2nd link looks like it was written by a young teenager using l33t shortcut speak.

As for the 1st link - a forum mod did respond to the post basically saying there is a thread already open for DRM/Securom discussion so there is no reason to open up 20 billion new threads to clutter the forums [kinda like how it works here, huh?].

Eh - it's THEIR forum...which probably has the same "you will behave" and "you give up all rights" rules when you sign up.

 

[videogames101]

Originally posted by: mindcycle

Originally posted by: Schadenfroh
EA changes SPORE's DRM

Gibeau went on to outline specific changes to the current DRM policy:

* The number of eligible machines will be expanded from three to five.
* EA will continue to offer channels to request additional activations where warranted.
* The ability to de-authorize machines and move authorizations to new machines.

I'm glad they're at least listening to their customers now. Spore probably didn't sell as well as they hoped and that may be the only reason for this, but it's at least something.

I do find this funny..

?We?re extremely pleased with the reception SPORE has received from critics and consumers but we?re disappointed by the misunderstanding surrounding the use of DRM software and the limitation on the number of machines that are authorized to play a single a copy of the game,? said Gibeau. He also implied that much of the criticism is ?noise? from game pirates, ?while it?s easy to discount the noise from those who only want to post or transfer thousands of copies of the game on the Internet, I believe we need to adapt our policy to accommodate our legitimate consumers.?

Why would pirates criticize a game they got for free? I'm sure it happened a few times but I doubt it's accounts for much of the "noise".. What I read more of were legitimate customers unwilling to buy the game, or ones who did buy it and ran into problems. Just another diversionary tactic from our "friends" at EA. What they need to do is just admit they fucked up and were screwing legit customers, quit blaming pirates for everything. Lets hope this applies for all their games and not just Spore.

Lol, seriously, Pirates got the game a week before release, why would they complain?

 

[jonks]

In my left hand is a pile of crap. It's stinky, it's runny, and it's gonna get all over everything you own. And you will pay me $50 for the privilege of holding it. Some of which will go to the person who crapped it out, but most of it will go to me, the person distributing the crap. After all, I'm the salesman.

In my right hand is another a pile of crap. But this pile is odorless, dense in composition and will not mess up anything you put it near. It's also free. The crapper of this wondrous drek will not be compensated for his efforts, but neither will I and I bet that makes you happy.

So, which do you want, you little turd you?

 

[wanderer27]

EA has just been hit with a Class Action Lawsuit over Spore's DRM:


http://www.courthousenews.com/...uters_Class_Claims.htm


This is really getting interesting now . . . .

 

[Bateluer]

Originally posted by: wanderer27
EA has just been hit with a Class Action Lawsuit over Spore's DRM:


http://www.courthousenews.com/...uters_Class_Claims.htm


This is really getting interesting now . . . .

Excellent, just saw this posted. Here is the complete suit document. Hope they have to pay out the ass for this and end up removing it from all their titles.

 

[lupi]

Originally posted by: Lonyo

Originally posted by: wanderer27

Originally posted by: Lonyo

Originally posted by: KMFJD

Originally posted by: SirFelixCat
I've read that the real point to DRM is to ruin/remove the resale market and force people to buy from the company, not second hand (ala ebay/Gamestop).

Ding ! Ding! We have a winner!

Piracy cannot be stopped, but this DRM effectively stops resales with the 3 install limit.

Steam stops resales, but you don't hear people bitching about that too much.

You know, that's a really good point that I haven't really given a whole lot of thought too.

Other than being more convenient, is a Steam version cheaper or have any other advantages over a hardcopy?

Horribly more expensive in the UK.
In the US I think it's even (except when there are sales on), but 99% of the time for the UK the Steam price is much higher (and that was at $2 = £1, now that it's $1.75 = £1 the prices got even worse!).
It's more convenient if you want immediate access or a game and have no nearby shops and a fast internet connection, or the game will be installed on a LOT of machines for you to use, or the game is stupid and a hard copy requires the CD to play.

Steam is just a slightly sugar coated version of the DRM in Spore, in that you can download and install anywhere, but you definitely can't resell, Valve can kill your whole account (and ALL games) or it can get hijacked with just one login.
Plus it's horrible if you go from living with siblings and sharing games to living on your own and still all want to play the games on one Steam account (but different games, e.g. TF2 and HL2) in different places e.g. college vs home.

There are also equal risks of authentication servers going down (although with Spore you only lose one game, whereas with Steam you lose all games on that account).

Spore's DRM is only something people complain about because they are idiots (IMO).
3 isn't a great number, but it's not a hard number either, it's a soft cap that can be extended if you ask. And it should also be enough to last at least a while. It may even be that EA will give up on it eventually once the sequel or similar is out and allow free reign for users to install as many times as they want (when they can no longer be bothered to deal with the hassle).

I haven't been keeping track of this thread and I'm not sure who said what, but many of the statements against steam here are the same statements I've been saying about it since launch.