Spore / DRM / EA / PC Game Industry

[designerfx]

I have, and will continue to seed a copy of spore every day when I'm not around.

They really need to learn; 5 copies is not acceptable. Trying to say that only a small amount of the population are at target is like saying "I just threw a nuclear bomb at NYC, but only a few people were affected"

Until EA stops employing Securom I won't be satisfied..but good job EA! Spore has hit landmark numbers of pirated copies!

 

[Schadenfroh]

They really need to learn; 5 copies is not acceptable.

Can one not contact tech support to get the amount reset? I have done it many times with Microsoft product activation because I format so often. I also was able to do it with Direct2Drive (they had a quick and polite response to it when they reset my activations for VTMB).

 

[Bateluer]

Originally posted by: Schadenfroh

They really need to learn; 5 copies is not acceptable.

Can one not contact tech support to get the amount reset? I have done it many times with Microsoft product activation because I format so often. I also was able to do it with Direct2Drive (they had a quick and polite response to it when they reset my activations for VTMB).

Possibly, but do you trust EA to re-activate the game for you? Or will you trust that you'll still be able to re-activate in 2012?

Unfortunately, I think the sheep have spoken. I saw this that states EA claims more than 1 million in sales. At least I can take some comfort in an equal amount of pirated copies.

 

[BD2003]

Originally posted by: Schadenfroh

They really need to learn; 5 copies is not acceptable.

Can one not contact tech support to get the amount reset? I have done it many times with Microsoft product activation because I format so often. I also was able to do it with Direct2Drive (they had a quick and polite response to it when they reset my activations for VTMB).

Well, the real question is, "why should I have to?"

Pirates have obviously got the game shamefully easy.
With the incoming revoke tool, raised install limit and multiple screen names, its now perfectly feasible to lend the game to friends, and to resell it, and it will be far less of a hassle to deal with overall.

So everything the DRM is supposed to cover it no longer does, so why is it even in there at all?

Theres also a stark difference between EA and Microsoft here - with MS, you have a 30 day grace period to activate. And even if you fail to, the worst that happens is a nag screen and a black wallpaper. So you're never really all too inconvenienced in the first place. Its perfectly reasonable because it assumes youre a victim (of counterfeiting) rather than a criminal, and the activation servers being down will not effect your work or play. To call MS, youre slightly inconvenienced to deal with a slight inconvenience.

The only people I hear complain about MS activation are pirates or people who dont understand how it works. Its by far the most unrestrictive, reasonable DRM out there, and they dont get as much credit as they should for it.

Put spore in if theres a hiccup on the servers, and youre not going to play, period. Have an issue with installs or activation, and youve got to call or youre not going to play.

I play games to escape from bullshit, not enter into it.

I would imagine EA would have been SO much better off if they released the game using MS style DRM. A crack wouldnt be required, and anyone that torrented it would soon be met with a screen telling them they might be a "victim". And the next screen would tell them about all that theyre missing out on by not having a valid copy with online connection, and provide them with a super easy way to "get legit". I suspect a lot of those pirates could have been turned into paying customers if they offered this up.

 

[TheVrolok]

Originally posted by: Bateluer

Originally posted by: Schadenfroh

They really need to learn; 5 copies is not acceptable.

Can one not contact tech support to get the amount reset? I have done it many times with Microsoft product activation because I format so often. I also was able to do it with Direct2Drive (they had a quick and polite response to it when they reset my activations for VTMB).

Possibly, but do you trust EA to re-activate the game for you? Or will you trust that you'll still be able to re-activate in 2012?

Yes, and yes. Many of us don't like the DRM, not at all, but EA isn't nearly the evil, customer hating company people make it out to be. They're looking at their bottom line, that's it. They're not going to make a game inoperable - it hurts business.

 

[Bateluer]

Originally posted by: TheVrolok

Originally posted by: Bateluer

Originally posted by: Schadenfroh

They really need to learn; 5 copies is not acceptable.

Can one not contact tech support to get the amount reset? I have done it many times with Microsoft product activation because I format so often. I also was able to do it with Direct2Drive (they had a quick and polite response to it when they reset my activations for VTMB).

Possibly, but do you trust EA to re-activate the game for you? Or will you trust that you'll still be able to re-activate in 2012?

Yes, and yes. Many of us don't like the DRM, not at all, but EA isn't nearly the evil, customer hating company people make it out to be. They're looking at their bottom line, that's it. They're not going to make a game inoperable - it hurts business.

Thats just it, they already have your money for Spore/ME/Warhead/RA3. If call a few years from now to reactivate, they could simply say no, and your only recourse will be to violate federal law by downloading a crack. Most likely, they'll just re-activate the game for you, but as others have said, you shouldn't have to jump through these hoops for a game you legally purchased while the pirates enjoy their free, DRM-less copy.

 

[lupi]

Originally posted by: TheVrolok

Originally posted by: Bateluer

Originally posted by: Schadenfroh

They really need to learn; 5 copies is not acceptable.

Can one not contact tech support to get the amount reset? I have done it many times with Microsoft product activation because I format so often. I also was able to do it with Direct2Drive (they had a quick and polite response to it when they reset my activations for VTMB).

Possibly, but do you trust EA to re-activate the game for you? Or will you trust that you'll still be able to re-activate in 2012?

Yes, and yes. Many of us don't like the DRM, not at all, but EA isn't nearly the evil, customer hating company people make it out to be. They're looking at their bottom line, that's it. They're not going to make a game inoperable - it hurts business.

This isn't blizzard we're talking about where 10 years later they are still making starcraft disc to sell and patching it. This is EA that has already been known to shut down support for games they didn't want to continue spending money on.

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: TheVrolok

Originally posted by: Bateluer

Originally posted by: Schadenfroh

They really need to learn; 5 copies is not acceptable.

Can one not contact tech support to get the amount reset? I have done it many times with Microsoft product activation because I format so often. I also was able to do it with Direct2Drive (they had a quick and polite response to it when they reset my activations for VTMB).

Possibly, but do you trust EA to re-activate the game for you? Or will you trust that you'll still be able to re-activate in 2012?

Yes, and yes. Many of us don't like the DRM, not at all, but EA isn't nearly the evil, customer hating company people make it out to be. They're looking at their bottom line, that's it. They're not going to make a game inoperable - it hurts business.

EA already takes down servers for old* games.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/5253248.stm

Making a game inoperable is good for business, because morons like you will just buy the new version.

* By old EA means "last year's version."

 

[Maximilian]

Originally posted by: TheVrolok

Originally posted by: Bateluer

Originally posted by: Schadenfroh

They really need to learn; 5 copies is not acceptable.

Can one not contact tech support to get the amount reset? I have done it many times with Microsoft product activation because I format so often. I also was able to do it with Direct2Drive (they had a quick and polite response to it when they reset my activations for VTMB).

Possibly, but do you trust EA to re-activate the game for you? Or will you trust that you'll still be able to re-activate in 2012?

Yes, and yes. Many of us don't like the DRM, not at all, but EA isn't nearly the evil, customer hating company people make it out to be. They're looking at their bottom line, that's it. They're not going to make a game inoperable - it hurts business.

No they really dont care about the customer at all, they genuinely just want your money. If you think thats how every buisness operates then you are a sad selfish individual, other developers actually want their customers to have a good time and be happy with their product, EA dosent care.

 

[nitromullet]

Just in case this hasn't been posted yet: EA sued over Spore DRM

 

[Bateluer]

Originally posted by: nitromullet
Just in case this hasn't been posted yet: EA sued over Spore DRM

It has, with the complete PDF of the suit filing. I, for one, eagerly await the results of a court trial and sincerely hope EA pays big for it . . . they could use the penalties to help finance the Crisis Bailout Bill.

 

[TheVrolok]

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: TheVrolok

Originally posted by: Bateluer

Originally posted by: Schadenfroh

They really need to learn; 5 copies is not acceptable.

Can one not contact tech support to get the amount reset? I have done it many times with Microsoft product activation because I format so often. I also was able to do it with Direct2Drive (they had a quick and polite response to it when they reset my activations for VTMB).

Possibly, but do you trust EA to re-activate the game for you? Or will you trust that you'll still be able to re-activate in 2012?

Yes, and yes. Many of us don't like the DRM, not at all, but EA isn't nearly the evil, customer hating company people make it out to be. They're looking at their bottom line, that's it. They're not going to make a game inoperable - it hurts business.

EA already takes down servers for old* games.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/5253248.stm

Making a game inoperable is good for business, because morons like you will just buy the new version.

* By old EA means "last year's version."

I can understand that, though. Look at it from a business standpoint, most of the people playing those games (those using the online resources) do buy the new version each year. It makes sense to shutdown the old servers and reallocate bandwidth as a new version of these annual episodic games come out and gain popularity.

 

[PsharkJF]

That suit is godawful. Using the intentionally bombed amazon reviews as evidence is laughable.

That's not real evidence, heck - there's even a thread on these boards telling people to intentionally bomb the amazon reviews for another game..?

 

[wanderer27]

Originally posted by: TheVrolok

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: TheVrolok

Originally posted by: Bateluer

Originally posted by: Schadenfroh

They really need to learn; 5 copies is not acceptable.

Can one not contact tech support to get the amount reset? I have done it many times with Microsoft product activation because I format so often. I also was able to do it with Direct2Drive (they had a quick and polite response to it when they reset my activations for VTMB).

Possibly, but do you trust EA to re-activate the game for you? Or will you trust that you'll still be able to re-activate in 2012?

Yes, and yes. Many of us don't like the DRM, not at all, but EA isn't nearly the evil, customer hating company people make it out to be. They're looking at their bottom line, that's it. They're not going to make a game inoperable - it hurts business.

EA already takes down servers for old* games.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/5253248.stm

Making a game inoperable is good for business, because morons like you will just buy the new version.

* By old EA means "last year's version."

I can understand that, though. Look at it from a business standpoint, most of the people playing those games (those using the online resources) do buy the new version each year. It makes sense to shutdown the old servers and reallocate bandwidth as a new version of these annual episodic games come out and gain popularity.

I don't know that I'd say that, this is a Law Firm that I'd say knows what's going on:

Similarities will no doubt be drawn between this and the Sony BMG rootkit case, in which the Federal Trade Commission ruled last year that the company couldn't install hidden software on users' computers without their permission. KamberEdelson, which commonly covers class-action technology cases, is the same firm that led the rootkit suit. And perhaps more ironically, the SecuROM software that EA uses with Spore was developed by Sony.

KamberEdelson also won a 2006 suit against game developer UbiSoft for its invasive StarForce PC copy-protection program. "These corporate executives don't see anything wrong with putting this uninstallable program on people's computers," Kamber said.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.co...9/spore-securom-d.html

 

[Maximilian]

Originally posted by: PsharkJF
That suit is godawful. Using the intentionally bombed amazon reviews as evidence is laughable.

That's not real evidence, heck - there's even a thread on these boards telling people to intentionally bomb the amazon reviews for another game..?

Your post is godawful.

Im glad to see people taking a stand on this, its about time EA was taught a lesson!

 

[mindcycle]

Originally posted by: nitromullet
Just in case this hasn't been posted yet: EA sued over Spore DRM

Interesting. SecuROM does seem very similar to the rootkit garbage that Sony was using for awhile. Thanks for the link, it will be interesting to see the outcome of this suit. Who knows how long it will take though..

 

[irishScott]

Gotta love the amazon review demographics though.
http://www.amazon.com/review/p...F8&filterBy=addOneStar

3,047 Reviews
5 star: 5% (172)
4 star: 3% (103)
3 star: 1% (48)
2 star: 4% (129)
1 star: 85% (2,595)

 

[nitromullet]

Originally posted by: PsharkJF
That suit is godawful. Using the intentionally bombed amazon reviews as evidence is laughable.

That's not real evidence, heck - there's even a thread on these boards telling people to intentionally bomb the amazon reviews for another game..?

I'm going to assume that KamberEdelson knows what they are doing. This isn't their first time doing this and winning.

Similarities will no doubt be drawn between this and the Sony BMG rootkit case, in which the Federal Trade Commission ruled last year that the company couldn't install hidden software on users' computers without their permission. KamberEdelson, which commonly covers class-action technology cases, is the same firm that led the rootkit suit. And perhaps more ironically, the SecuROM software that EA uses with Spore was developed by Sony.

KamberEdelson also won a 2006 suit against game developer UbiSoft for its invasive StarForce PC copy-protection program.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.co...9/spore-securom-d.html

 

[wanderer27]

Found this over on the Amazon forums discussing SecuROM on Colonization and Bioshock:

Well it installs a kernel that operates at RING 0 which is the operating system. I cant currently reboot my system with it removed, Im working on it, let me get back to you today. Ive been working on this all day trying to separate the kernel from the operating system

#ESC00000004: Sony MAPI Layer 2.4.17.1 *rooted to WinAPI (explorer.exe)
#ESC00000121: SSECROM DLApi v8.2.2 *rooted to WinAPI (explorer.exe)
#ESC000002C1: SSECDLL Miniport services *rooted to core (kernel Win32 layer)

Note how its attached or rooted into explorer.exe? This is what I mean about RING 0, they are basically re-writing your OS functions and programs. By the way I used a rootkit revealer to access this information. Its also rooted at the core of the Win32 layer so removing SecuRom without a total reformat is looking to be the only real solution. Im still working in safemode but even safemode requires explorer.exe (

So are we still saying SecuROM isn't a Rootkit?

 

[PsharkJF]

http://www.amazon.com/Read-the...g=UTF8&asin=B000FKBCX4

"Technical Protection Measures. Our Software uses access control and copy protection technology"
..aka SecuROM;
http://www.securom.com/solution_concept.asp
"A unique, uncopyable electronic keycode is added to each CD-ROM, DVD-ROM or CD-R during the glass mastering process." - copy protection, and
"An authentication mechanism verifies the unique SecuROM? keycode and unlocks the encrypted software/application." access control.
Almost verbatim directly from the horse's mouth.

"If you disable or otherwise tamper with the technical protection measures, the Software will not function properly."
IE Spore requires SecuROM to run.

When you agree to the EULA, you agree that Spore uses SecuROM and you agree that it does not work without SecuROM. That'll be EA's out.

 

[mindcycle]

It's really unfortunate.. I just realized that within the last month or two i've purchased more console games (360 games) than PC games for the first time since I got into PC gaming in the early 90's. DRM is forcing me to move away from the PC, since I refuse to support draconian copy protection schemes.

I will continue to support DRM free games like the ones published by Stardock, etc.. but I will be very wary of any new titles coming out. Which probably means I won't buy very many, if any, this holiday season. For instance, I just bought Stalker Clear Sky which has a 5 install limit. No where in the product description, box, etc.. did it mention this. That's unacceptable to me. I just found out Sacred 2 (which I was really looking forward to) uses securom.. How many other publishers will choose the same route is yet to be determined, but it doesn't look very good.

Sadly, it seems the industry is stabbing itself in the foot right now. With all the talk of the dying PC gaming industry, publishers are now making it harder for legit customers to use their products. More piracy and fewer sales is all I see coming out of this. It really disappoints me to say this, but i'm pretty much done with PC gaming for the time being..

Hopefully we'll see a change very soon.. i'll keep my fingers crossed.

 

[nitromullet]

Has there been anymore talk or an update on EA's progress on their development of a supposed tool to allow activation management?

This was posted on 9/19/2008 on crymod.com, and I haven't heard anything since...

Introduction
As you will be aware by now we released an F.A.Q. explaining far more details about the DRM that is used on Crysis Warhead. Following on from the information we gave you last night we're also pleased to be able to tell you that EA have sent us the following message to pass on to you guys:

quote:
"EA is expediting development of a system that will allow consumers to de-authorize machines and move authorizations to new machines. This system will effectively give you direct control to manage your authorizations between an unlimited number of different machines without having to contact EA customer service."

Conclusion
Please keep in mind that we cannot commit to a specific time frame or give you a date on when this will be available, but it is definitely being worked on.

We hope that this will really keep you guys happy and that you can understand that we have been listening to your concerns and are trying to make as much progress as possible to help you all out as best we can.


Related Links:
- Crysis Warhead Copy Protection F.A.Q.
- Crymod Team & EA

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Lead Community Manager
Crytek

link: http://crymod.com/thread.php?t...d6bddd1feb58a058a193e4