SSD Caching: My Experience

[Diogenes2]

Interesting to say the least...

I put together a 2600K system back in January, and it has served me well.
My basic components are Asus P8p67 Pro, an OCZ Vertex2 128gb, and an MSI GTX 460 ..
I primarily use this PC for editing and encoding home movies with Sony Vegas Pro ver 10 ..

I'm not one to haggle over second or two here and there, but the OCZ SSD really added a noticeable snappiness to OS and application load times, compared to spindle drives..

Recently, I couldn't resist the urge to take advantage of a Microcenter deal on Z68 boards ( $80 off when bundled with their $279 2600K ) so I pulled the trigger on some new parts to replace a Q6600 rig..

The mobo is the ASUS P8Z68 Deluxe. I also grabbed a Crucial 64gb M4 that was on sale for $89 at B&H ..
I'm using it as a cache for a WD VelociRaptor WD1500HLFS 150GB .. This is my OS and applications drive, taking the place of the OCZ SSD on my original system..

Following are my ATTO scores, which I realize do not give a full picture of drive performance, but provide what I feel is enough information to show what is going on.

First, the OCZ vertex 2 in my P8P67 system:

Next are the WD Raptor and the Crucial M4 as stand-alone drives.

The WD Velociraptor

The Crucial M4

Interesting that the writes are similar to a spindle drive, and lower than the OCZ, but I'm not exploring that aspect right now..

The following are three runs on the Raptor with the M4 as cache..

Not a lot of difference in the three runs, but the 1st was a bit faster for whatever reasons..



Have to run now, but I will have some observations about Win7 start-up and program load times later ..

 

[GotNoRice]

Those results are as expected (not increasing your write speed much). This is the same reason why SSD caching doesn't boost your Windows Experience Index past 5.9 (the typical max if you have a mechanical drive).

The only thing it's going to be able to cache are blocks that remain the same between the times that you access them. This applies to most game data and most of the files that are loaded when you boot which is why SSD caching is able to give SSD-like performance in those situations.

Random benchmark data that is generated on-the-fly and written to the drive is not able to be cached in the traditional sense. This doesn't mean anything is broken or not working as intended however.

Also, are you running in Enhanced or Maximized mode? If you are in Enhanced mode, try switching to Maximized mode and make sure write caching is enabled.

When I setup my Z68 computer it was torture running off the mechanical drives before I enabled the SSD cache. But after that it was like night-and-day and just as fast as my computer was before running from the SSD directly.

 

[Diogenes2]

Actually it did boost my WEI to 6.3 ... :biggrin:

Another interesting effect, was that the WEI for my GTX 460 went from 6.9 to 7.5 ..


I am in Maximized mode ..

I'm not worried about the ATTO write numbers, they just look crippled compared to the reads..

Windows loads faster than with the stand-alone Vertex 2, and programs load faster also, after the 2nd start..

Of course, the M4 is a lot faster than the Vertex 2, but I was pleasantly surprised that the over-all result turned out the way it did.

I just discovered the Marvell controller has SSD caching built in..

Just connect an SSD and a spindle drive, configure " HyperDuo " and the performance is comparable to the Intel solution..

 

[zCypher]

That is interesting!

 

[BonzaiDuck]

I contributed to another fairly recent thread on this. It may have been on the "Motherboards" thread per the Z68 chipset, or anyway, may have dropped back to the second or third page in the stack.

This year, I tried to stick to a budget for this Sandy Bridge build, but it may be that I've spent $400 or $500 more than I should have.

First, the only SDD I could find that was SATA-III and had high sequential-read specs was the Intel Elm Crest 510 series. There are no ~60GB drives in that SSD-model-line.

Second, the VelociRaptor -- a 600GB SATA-III which I only got on sale for $199. The first one arrived DOA. The replacement has just the other day given me trouble, and I'm patting myself on the back for having cloned the drive just a week ago. [In that regard, a script-line from the arch-criminal Ray Lucca in the 1980's crime-drama "Crime Story:" "Ah'm back, Ah'm bad, you wing-tip bozos ain't got nuthin' on me!"]

Having experimented with the VelociRaptor and the Elm Crest, I had occasional "iastor" errors cropping up every week or two in my Windows System Event Log. The Elm Crest was being used both as a cache for the VR drive, and the remaining space was partitioned and formatted to use directly. Generally, when this sort of thing happened, I would re-initialize the cache drive after backing up the logical drive that was on it.

I finally "discovered" the Patriot Pyro 60GB SATA-III SSD. It has been absolutely stellar, and had better read specs -- and noticeably better write specs than the Elm Crest. In "Enhanced" mode, I think I could still detect the difference.

The troubles with the VR drive may not require me to RMA it. I don't want to recount the details of what happened; I may have reset the computer while the IRST program was unhinging the cache -- thinking that the system had become unresponsive.

After cloning the clone of the Raptor to a Samsung F3 1TB (SATA-II) and using the Pyro to cache it, I have concluded that the VR was a waste of money as was the Elm Crest (except that I can find uses for both). Just as I had predicted before and with a consensus of others here at Anandtech, the difference between the Raptor SATa-III on an SATA-III port and an SATA-II (or III) drive on an SATA-II port won't be missed with Intel Smart Response, provided you get a small, super-fast SATA_III SSD and configure it to an SATA-III port.

As to benchmarks. Someone else had noted that the more times you run the same benchmark test on an SSD-cached/accelerated-HDD, the scores register progressively lower. But there are benchmark reviews which seem to provide some rules of thumb: If you can verify the sequential read and write specs on a particular SSD (SATA-II or -III), you can expect the performance of the cached-accelerated HDD to approach about 80% of the SSD standalone performance. Conversely, you might find "up to" 400% improvement over the HDD standalone performance. But this would ultimately depend on the SSD's speed and spec.

If you got two Raptors configured as RAID0, and then cached them with an SSD, the overall performance can't exceed that of the SSD itself. Suppose you could get 280 MB/s in such a RAID0 off the SATA-II ports (because you only have two SATA-III ports available on these motherboards). You might ask yourself how much of a difference in performance you'd get over a single HDD -- even a Raptor on the remaining SATA-III port. And consider how much you spent.

I'm even stunningly pleased with what happens with the Pyro and a clunky Samsung F3 SATA-II. Happier than a pig in s***.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

. . .

I just discovered the Marvell controller has SSD caching built in..

Just connect an SSD and a spindle drive, configure " HyperDuo " and the performance is comparable to the Intel solution..

Hey, Diogenes! What is this "HyperDuo" program or feature? I've got the ASUS P8Z68-V-Pro. Did I overlook something? Can I really cache a spindle drive on the Marvell controller if it's matched with an SSD also on the Marvell controller?

Holy Cow, Batman!! Tell me I've found an honest man!

 

[Diogenes2]

This seems to be a well kept secret .. I picked it up from a video on Newegg, hyping Asus Z68 boards..
I think there is the same controller on P67 boards - but the ability to enter the Marvell BIOS seems to be broke by design ..

The manual doesn't make it very clear, because it seems to be just talking about a regular RAID, but if you connect a spindle drive and an SSD to the ports, and hit " CTRL - M " when the Marvell controller shows on the boot screen .
It will take you to the Marvell BIOS - and you just muddle through the menus to set up the " Hyper Duo " - It's pretty self explanatory and non destructive .

There is no software to run from the OS, other than the Marvell driver.
The SSD will disappear from the device manager..

Maybe I should put together a tutorial with screen shots if anyone has trouble with it...

 

[blackened23]

Wow Wasn't even aware of this. Apparently the P8P67 boards do support SRT caching through hyper duo, but you have to do a fresh operating system install to do it!

Found this on the web:

1. There is no one from Asus here, but according to the P8P67 Deluxe MR Guide, it is supported and instructions are also available.
2. The instruction on how to build Hyper Duo:
Method #1:

1. Connect 1x supported SSD to either one of the SATA6G port from the Marvell 9128 controller.

2. Connect 1x HDD to the remaining SATA6G port from the Marvell 9128 controller.

3. Enter BIOS and ensure the Marvell 9128 is set to ACHI mode.

4. Press [F10] to save and exit the BIOS configuration screen.

5. During POST, press [CRTL+M] to enter the Marvell 9128 option ROM.

6. Find the respective option, and build HyperDuo with it.

7. Install windows OS. Please ensure you are loading the Marvell 9128 driver from the support CD at the beginning of OS installation to assure proper operation.

8. Done.



Method #2:

1. Connect 1x supported SSD to either one of the SATA6G port from the Marvell 9128 controller.

2. Connect 1x HDD to the remaining SATA6G port from the Marvell 9128 controller.

3. Connect any HDD onto any of the SATA ports from the Intel P67 PCH.

4. Install OS onto the HDD from the Intel P67 PCH.

5. Install all drivers and the Marvell IMSU.

6. Use Marvell IMSU to configure the HDD and SSD connected to the Marvell 9128 as HyperDuo mode.

7. Restart system, and enter BIOS and ensure the Marvell 9128 is set to ACHI mode.

8. Install windows OS. Please ensure you are loading the Marvell 9128 driver from the support CD at the beginning of OS installation to assure proper operation.

9. Done.



The rules of thumbs are:

(1) This is like RAID0, cannot be built after the OS has already been installed onto it.

(2) Only work under Marvell 9128 controller, and only when it is set to AHCI mode.

* What is the behavior of the SSD TRIM command when HyperDuo is enabled?

- No idea...

* Are there any SSD wear concerns users should be aware of?

- No idea...

In addition, I would like to know more about the following:

* Can the HDD be removed and read by a 2nd system. I.e is the SSD a write-through or exclusive cache? In other words, can the HDD be moved to a 2nd system and read or will part of the data be only on the SSD?

- Doesn't sound like you can do that, as HyperDuo is also some type of JBOD thing.

* In a heavy-write then immediate shutdown, immediate HDD removal scenario, is there a risk of cached write data not being fully written to the HDD?

- It's not a cache, hence there is nothing to worry about here.

* In the above scenario, is there a command utility to force cached to be flushed to the HDD?

- It's not a cache, hence there is nothing to worry about here.

* Since HyperDuo is an entirely BIOS-level function, will HyperDuo function on operating systems other than MS Windows?

More info refer to Marvell page:

http://www.marvell.com/products/sto...ollers_pc_consumer/hyper_duo_productbrief.pdf

 

[Diogenes2]

Haven't been able to " CTRL-M " to work on my P8P67 Pro, but I have been running on an older BIOS , so that may have something to do with it.. I may need to make sure I have it set for AHCI..

I don't understand why a new OS install would be necessary, since this thing is happening at a BIOS level.. Of course the latest 9128 driver would need to be installed..

 

[BonzaiDuck]

This is quite a revelation . . .

In the hour since my last post, I uncovered several "news" items and reviews, specifically this one, focussed on the ASUS P8Z68-Deluxe motherboard.

Note that the article refers specifically to the " . .. 9128" Marvell controller, and that there should be a firmware update which turns it into a " . . . 9130" controller.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/mainboards/display/asus-p8z68-deluxe_7.html

I poked around on the ASUS web-site to look further, since I have the P8Z68-V-Pro. I had done a feature-by-feature versus dollar-for-dollar comparison of the P8Z68 models earlier.

There's no indication in the "specs" that the Marvell controller on my -V-Pro board is the "9128" controller on the Deluxe. But the Deluxe specs show it:

http://www.asus.com/Motherboards/Intel_Socket_1155/P8Z68_DELUXE/#specifications

Looking a bit further, I checked the specs on the ASUS Maximus IV Extreme-Z (Z68) "flagship" motherboard, and it states there is a Marvell controller that is the "9182" controller.

I've posted a lot here at the forums -- on at least a couple threads -- about my ISRT experiences with the Intel controller (Z68). I concluded -- and still conclude -- that it is just too good of a feature to avoid, even though there are certain things one should meet with some caution. [For instance, when "un-hinging" a cache-drive temporarily, the IRST program ("Rapid Storage" which configures "Smart Response") -- pay attention to the message that it will take a little time -- IN OTHER WORDS, DON'T panic with an assumption that your machine is frozen and hit the "reset" button. For me, I thought my VelociRaptor had gone south on its way to the RMA terminal. And lucky I had a clone-drive from seven days earlier . . . ]

My other thoughts about this -- goes to the "KISS" principle and the psycho-pharmacologist (brain chemistry) who had worked his way through University of Basel as a chef: "Simple is Best!"

I'm a bit reticent about implementing both ISRT AND HyperDuo on the same rig, just for that reason. Don't ask me why, but complexity breeds SNAFUs and Murphy's Law episodes . . . Your comments?

 

[blackened23]

Haven't been able to " CTRL-M " to work on my P8P67 Pro, but I have been running on an older BIOS , so that may have something to do with it.. I may need to make sure I have it set for AHCI..

I don't understand why a new OS install would be necessary, since this thing is happening at a BIOS level.. Of course the latest 9128 driver would need to be installed..

Because it works like RAID-0 between your SSD and HD. You can't do RAID 0 unless you do a fresh OS install, generally.

 

[Diogenes2]

......
I'm a bit reticent about implementing both ISRT AND HyperDuo on the same rig, just for that reason. Don't ask me why, but complexity breeds SNAFUs and Murphy's Law episodes . . . Your comments?

I'm still evaluating on my Asus Z68 before I start running it as my main rig..

I have both IRST and HyperDuo running now.. Any suggestions for testing you would like to see ?

I could set up some encoding projects with Vegas that would run for hours; with the application on my OS drive - IRST - and the media files on my spindle - HyperDuo -..
Should be a lot of cache activity going on ...

 

[Diogenes2]

Because it works like RAID-0 between your SSD and HD. You can't do RAID 0 unless you do a fresh OS install, generally.

Would it be different on the P67 from the Z68 ?

Because, I set it up on my Z68 last night, and it was seamless . Also, unlike RAID 0, it is non-destructive as far as breaking up the set ..

 

[BonzaiDuck]

I'm still evaluating on my Asus Z68 before I start running it as my main rig..

I have both IRST and HyperDuo running now.. Any suggestions for testing you would like to see ?

I could set up some encoding projects with Vegas that would run for hours; with the application on my OS drive - IRST - and the media files on my spindle - HyperDuo -..
Should be a lot of cache activity going on ...

I appreciate the thought. Heading toward my 64th birthday in two weeks, I've grown more and more cautious as the years pass. I always make sure I have a "spare" computer; I back my files up to a WHS, and then I back up the WHS.

I have a friend who goes hott-dawg with his computer-building projects, trying to hook up every feature he can from the git-go, has terrible problems after that with his OS and driver configurations. More and more, I've tried to plan every build to squeeze as much performance as I can out of the simplest design. Eventually, the simplicity gets compromised a bit.

So I'm still watching my system carefully with ISRT set up. It's hooked up to my 42" LED-LCD HDTV for Media Center, and I'm running it 24/7 to watch for anything that suggests some instability, some glitch, etc.

If you DO have ISRT and HyperDuo set up concurrently, sure -- see what you come up with in terms of multi-tasking, rendering, whatever you have in mind. I'd like to see you do it over a couple marathon weeks of use (not loaded with activity, but some indication that you consider the system rock-stable.)

I'd had minor glitches with my first IRST setup. "Iastor" errors would appear in Windows System Event Log maybe once every two weeks. This is now "gone," and I only suspected that it was due to a "dual-use" SSD for both caching and formatted partition. Can't say, but since I replaced my Elm Crest with a 60GB Pyro drive -- it has been totally stellar.

But if I mentioned my VelociRaptor mishap of two days ago, it looks more and more like one of those panicked "system reset" episodes I mentioned that caused it. Since I had previously cloned the drive with the same disk signature, that signature still persists on the Raptor, so when I go into "Computer->Manage->Disk Management," it appears "offline" with a note: " . . . collision between two drives with the same signature."

I may try and clone the current drive back to the VelociRaptor, then unhinge the current drive and see what develops. OF course, the first thing I have to do is "unhinge" the SSD-caching, and when I bring the VelociRaptor back online as a Boot/system disk, I'll have to completely re-initialize the cache SSD through the IRST program . . . .

Maybe . . . Acronis Disk Director from the "DOS" mode CD I created can wipe out that disk signature. I'd really like to do some low-level diagnostics on the Raptor before I start using it again. [Frankly, I can hardly tell the difference between an accelerated Samsung F3 SATA-II and the accelerated VelociRaptor SATA-III.

Maybe I should just offer it for sale, take the money and buy three Caviar Black drives!

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Posting after myself here, per my developing experience with the caching.

Somebody should write a little guidebook on what to do and what to avoid in system maintenance for ISRT caching.

For instance, I just discovered that the Z68 and Intel controller somehow automatically disable to cache when you clone your hDD nad replace it without first disabling the cache in the IRST program. You might worry about worse things happening, but they don't.

Second, I'd disable the cache before installing large software suites from your optical drive. At least -- observe whether this causes problems before you make a practice of doing installations with the cache enabled. You can easily re-enable the very same cache once the software installation has run its course (even if it requires reboot.

Third, more and more I get the suspicion that dual-use for the caching SSD is a bad idea. Use an SSD of 64GB or smaller, and get the fastest you can find. Get an SATA-III SSD connected to an SATA-III port to cache any (II or III) HDD on an SATA-II port.

And finally, so far -- try to avoid situations where you're tempted to reset the computer if it appears the IRST application is hanging during the operation of disabling or enabling the cache. You may have to run a repair operation on the HDD with your Windows install disc. Or -- resort to mounting a clone of your HDD before the accident occurred.

Maybe I'm wrong about some or all of this, so others should post here there experiences.

Whatever the case -- I say two thumbs up for ISRT and HyperDuo.

 

[SuPrEIVIE]

This is very interesting stuff, I was thinking about getting Z68 in exchange of a P67 but if the marvel controller on my P8P67 can offer SSD cache performance just as good then this loweres my interest in Z68. I however do not want to install W7 on the marvell "hyper duo" array as I seem to interpret from blackened23's post. I just want my spindle to operate for internal storage as I would have a larger SSD on the intel controller for OS and apps. Also would the SSD cache drive on the marvell still get the TRIM OS benefit?

 

[BonzaiDuck]

This is very interesting stuff, I was thinking about getting Z68 in exchange of a P67 but if the marvel controller on my P8P67 can offer SSD cache performance just as good then this loweres my interest in Z68. I however do not want to install W7 on the marvell "hyper duo" array as I seem to interpret from blackened23's post. I just want my spindle to operate for internal storage as I would have a larger SSD on the intel controller for OS and apps. Also would the SSD cache drive on the marvell still get the TRIM OS benefit?

I don't think the P67 offers ISRT-caching. Such was supposed to be a new feature debuted with the release of Z68. However, the Marvell HyperDuo feature (if I recall from what I read) does work on the older chipset.

Some of our "Top-Guns" here -- "pushin' the edge of that envelope" -- have enabled HyperDuo and I'm interested in hearing their experiences. However, given the reviews and intentions for providing the Marvell auxiliary controller, the fact that you can't use it for ATAPI drives etc __ . . . leads me to suggest that you might be better served by swapping the P67 board for a Z68 if ISRT means enough to you. You'd still be able to do the same thing with Hyperduo, but you'd have the ISRT -- best applied for your system/boot drive.

 

[Diogenes2]

This is very interesting stuff, I was thinking about getting Z68 in exchange of a P67 but if the marvel controller on my P8P67 can offer SSD cache performance just as good then this loweres my interest in Z68. I however do not want to install W7 on the marvell "hyper duo" array as I seem to interpret from blackened23's post. I just want my spindle to operate for internal storage as I would have a larger SSD on the intel controller for OS and apps. Also would the SSD cache drive on the marvell still get the TRIM OS benefit?

Which board do you have ? It has to have a Marvell 9128 chip, and you have to be able to update the firmware to make it a 9130, to use HyperDuo ..
While the ASUS specs for the Asus P8Z68 Deluxe says it has 9128 chip, the BIOS declares it to be a 9130 ..

I am finding that ISRT, has a noticeable advantage over HyperDuo, but HyperDuo offers a serious improvement over a stand-alone spindle drive.

Whichever way you go, you want to get the OS up and running before you implement either option..

 

[SuPrEIVIE]

I have the regular P8P67 board that comes with the marvel ports not sure about the controller version. What i was saying is that i dont intend to use the spindle as a boot drive, but just as added storage that I would like to accelerate with a SSD dedicated to this. I will have another SSD be the boot drive with the OS etc. If i would get Z68 this is exactly what i would setup anyway. If the marvel on my board can utilize hyper duo and it performs like ISRT then Z68 won't be missed by me.

Diogenes2 you mentioned that ISRT has a noticeable advantage over hyperduo what are those?

 

[Diogenes2]

It shows better performance with ATTO benchmark .. Also, experience shows me the Intel controller is a bit faster ..
I can't say that day to day experience would be that different if I didn't know the Intel solution was benching better..

But depending on how you use it, your experience might be different.

All I can be sure of at this point, that OS and program loading with the caching, is comparable to the SSD (128gb OCZ Vertex 2 ) I was using before ..

 

[Keysplayr]

Would this work with say a 32GB Vertex 2 SSD?

Excellent find by the way. Thank you for sharing this!!

 

[Diogenes2]

Intel is actually marketing a 20gb drive that targets SSD caching..

Anand reviewed it here ..

http://www.anandtech.com/show/4329/intel-z68-chipset-smart-response-technology-ssd-caching-review

He says this about gaming performance:

Performance keeps going up. The maximized SRT system is now virtually indistinguishable from the standalone SSD system.
Gaming is actually a pretty big reason to consider using Intel SRT since games can eat up a lot of storage space. Personally I keep one or two frequently used titles on my SSD, everything else goes on the HDD array. As the numbers above show however, there's a definite performance benefit to deploying a SSD cache in a gaming environment.

The limit is 64gb with ISRT , but the more the merrier..

I don't know if HyperDuo allows a bigger SSD, but Intel's research claims that more than 64gb gave little added benefit.

Your 32gb Vertex 2 should do better than the Intel 20 ..

 

[fire400]

I stopped relying on the WEI program, it's utterly useless sometimes. Just use latency software and benchmarking for strictly discreet specifics.

 

[videopho]

Quote:
Performance keeps going up. The maximized SRT system is now virtually indistinguishable from the standalone SSD system.
Gaming is actually a pretty big reason to consider using Intel SRT since games can eat up a lot of storage space. Personally I keep one or two frequently used titles on my SSD, everything else goes on the HDD array. As the numbers above show however, there's a definite performance benefit to deploying a SSD cache in a gaming environment.

I can relate to that according to my experience with SSD caching.
My FSx game used to take 2-3 min to load the selected aircraft in simulation in the very first time in game and 2nd time around (selected the same aircraft again) would take 10-15 sec. The game is resided in a 1TB WD Black Caviar HDD.
With SSD caching it now takes 30-40 sec in its first time in. And 2nd time around is almost lightning fast or about 1 sec or so.
I use enhanced mode in this caching feature, SSD is a Microcenter branded 64gb.

 

[beginner99]

Interesting to say the least...

I put together a 2600K system back in January, and it has served me well.
My basic components are Asus P8p67 Pro, an OCZ Vertex2 128gb, and an MSI GTX 460 ..
I primarily use this PC for editing and encoding home movies with Sony Vegas Pro ver 10 ..

Just curios about video editing, does Vegas Pro take any advantage of the GPU (ignoring encoding) like certain effects? Or could you do such a rig with intel hd graphics and get same performance?

Can video editing benefit from SSD caching?
Example: SSD as OS + App drive and HDD + SSD as cache for editing. Is that possible? (of course you would need 3 SATA-3 ports...)

The Crucial M4
Interesting that the writes are similar to a spindle drive, and lower than the OCZ,

Yeah smaller drives usually suck at writes. the 128 GB M4 is a lot faster in writes.
But still the 64 GB M4 is very good value.

However I would just use it as a regular OS + App drive instead of caching.