SSD vs HDD

torlen11cc

Member
Jun 22, 2013
143
5
81
Hey,
I want to ask what's the SSD's MTBF? I understand it's much less than million hours (here)
In addition, I want to know if HDD is more durable than SSD, because SSD has a lots of flash cells and a known lifetime, after this period of time the performance gets lower and you cant guarantee the information save in the cell. Therefore, the question is if the HDD will die equally to the SSD? Is the SSD's life time is shorter than the HDD's?
A friend told me that a good SSD can survive even 900 TB without a harmed sector.
Are the MTBBF and the durability growing?
 

nerp

Diamond Member
Dec 31, 2005
9,865
105
106
The HDD is more prone to die over time because it's mechanical. An SSD might one day up and die without warning but chances are it will run for decades with normal use no problem. I don't imagine a HD lasting much beyond 10 years with daily use.
 

Sheep221

Golden Member
Oct 28, 2012
1,843
27
81
Only periodic backups last longer than any storage component, I think that either SDD or HDD last quite long, in general they do last much longer than manufacturer's guaranteed amount of written data or power-on hours. Although testing SSD for duration of million hours, which is some 114 years, is a sci-fi beyond imagination.
 

C1

Platinum Member
Feb 21, 2008
2,340
89
91
Over the decades Ive had fewer than a handful of HDDs go bad & together Ive been involved with literally hundreds of machines & HDDs. HDDs can re-program/re-assign bad sectors plus in general their failure mode is not without advanced warning (eg, noise). My experience with solid state stuff is that it simply goes catastrophic. A power surge or spark can be an issue or when a memory cell/area simply goes bad.

Even now in the forums, do a search on how much message traffic this year has been about SSD problems versus HDDs and decide for yourself.
 

UsandThem

Elite Member
May 4, 2000
16,068
7,380
146
Both can last a long time, or both can suddenly die. In 20 years of computer use, so far I have only had one storage device die without warning; A WD hard drive in a HP computer in 2010.

I don't have a need to store massive amounts of data like some do. I store my (legal) music files on my PC, and at 90 GB it isn't that large. I also like the 'peppyness' of a system with a SSD.

It all comes down to keeping current back-ups regardless if you use a SSD or HDD, and picking whichever one serves your needs based on your use.
 

BonzaiDuck

Lifer
Jun 30, 2004
15,880
1,550
126
If one had the experience of some 30 years from the beginning of what we once called "micro-computers," it might put all this in a balanced context.

In the early 1990s, I know that I and others were trying to hold onto PCs with 5 or 6 years of prior usage. Sometime in the mid-90s, somebody told me "you could afford to buy a new PC every year." In those days, a system from Gateway delivered to your doorstep might have cost you between $2,000 and $3,000. I think I started building PCs myself around that time, and it seemed much less expensive.

But since the time we migrated from IDE drives to SATA -- a time when you might buy a drive of 160GB -- I've only had one HDD go south. It was still within a 5-year warranty, and the manufacturer replaced it.

I have in my parts-lockers one or two of those IDE drives left, and a couple 320GB "WD Blue" SATA drives. On top of that, I have some 7 or 8 hot-swap caddies that fit bays in all our machines here, with either 500GB or 1TB size. I use them for backup, but I don't need them for backups. I probably need at most about three for backup, because all our systems back up to our server at 1AM every morning.

Yet, what one respondent said is true: HDDs are more prone to failure simply because they are "electro-MECHANICAL" devices.

Now consider the types of SSDs available. For instance, I just recently purchased an ADATA SP550 480GB SSD for $110. Its MTBF is spec'd at 1.5 million hours, which translates to 171 years (I need to pinch myself and recheck my Windows calculator, but that's what it tells me!)

MTBF isn't some hard and fast limit: not all SP550s will last 171 years. Some will last longer, some will expire sooner. It's an average and an estimate. Around that average or "mean" (for "M") there is a distribution of expected failures.

The other measure of expected lifespan is the number of expected writes in terabytes or petabytes before one experiences performance degradation or failure. And these measures or estimates are reported in various endurance tests, such as one published by TechReport and cited here in other threads. I think several drives could be expected to allow as many as 500TB of writes, and one drive -- a Samsung -- scored at approximately 1.2 Petabytes.

But the drive with specs similar to the SP550 cost me (as a Samsung 840 Pro) about $400 in 2014. Of course, the Sammy was an MLC drive, and the SP550 is TLC; people have more reservations about TLC.

The warranty period for this type of device doesn't correspond to either MTBF or cumulative writes. 3 years? 5 years? I could easily see discarding the SP550 at some point before 5 years. It would've cost me $20/annum.

The entire culture that has emerged since the IBM-PC-AT days has gravitated toward throw-away devices. Your cell-phone provider may give you a new I-phone for $50 upon accepting a new contract; it's your own duty to recycle the old one. Last year's Surface may give way to next year's tablet.

I don't much like the way this is shaping up. I never imagined in 1990 that computing devices would become such a fixed part of my annual budget, but they have. Yet, the devices are much cheaper.

My SP550 may have as many as 60GB of writes per day, and I would strive to reduce that figure, if only for strategically choosing to use SSD's as boot-system disks with a profile of more reads and less writes. But in the overall scheme of things, it doesn't bode much to worry about.
 

redzo

Senior member
Nov 21, 2007
547
5
81
Hmm. Some of you guys are quite old.

"MTFB" is useless. Somehow I believe that it is useless even for big OEMs purchasing hundreds of thousands(maybe milions ?) of storage devices.

Hell, RAM itself may not last much. The tech itself is non-mechanical, but the products themselves may not be that reliable.

Who manufactures products thinking about decades in advance? And by products I mean IT market sh*t built for the mere mortals, businesses included. This is not your average voyager spacecraft standard.
 

pitz

Senior member
Feb 11, 2010
461
0
0
Hmm. Some of you guys are quite old.

"MTFB" is useless. Somehow I believe that it is useless even for big OEMs purchasing hundreds of thousands(maybe milions ?) of storage devices.

I agree with your sentiment and you're mostly correct. However, lots and lots of people (even engineers) misinterpret what MTBF really means. MTBF is only valid over a manufacturer's specified "service life" (ie: 5 years for enterprise HDDs). MTBF is only valid over very large populations of drives (ie: thousands). MTBF requires that a drive be used within its specified operating parameters (ie: most consumer drives specify a very low duty cycle which can easily be exceeded!). MTBF is based on statistical extrapolations from previous designs.

Exceedingly few hard drives thus are operated in such a way that the manufacturer's quoted MTBF claim is even valid.

SSDs, however, are far more tolerant to many conditions, such as vibration, shock, cycling, and even heat, that would easily be the early demise of HDDs. SSDs are a slam-dunk for mobile applications such as laptops. SSDs are less compelling in mass storage applications where high IOPS are not needed. But may still deliver important and quite significant improvements in reliability for those applications.
 

UsandThem

Elite Member
May 4, 2000
16,068
7,380
146
Hmm. Some of you guys are quite old.

"MTFB" is useless. Somehow I believe that it is useless even for big OEMs purchasing hundreds of thousands(maybe milions ?) of storage devices.

Hell, RAM itself may not last much. The tech itself is non-mechanical, but the products themselves may not be that reliable.

Who manufactures products thinking about decades in advance? And by products I mean IT market sh*t built for the mere mortals, businesses included. This is not your average voyager spacecraft standard.

Some of us are not old, we are seasoned.

RAM typically lasts at least a decade and often longer, and most companies have a lifetime warranty on it. CPUs typically last a long time as well, and are usually only replaced because they become obsolete. Heck, you can still buy used working Voodoo 2 and 3 cards on Ebay.

The parts that typically don't last decades are power supplies, motherboards, and storage drives. However, I have seen several people on here who are still using/testing with motherboards that are 10+ years old. User VirtualLarry on here loves tinkering with older stuff. It all comes down to how long the capacitors last.
 

BonzaiDuck

Lifer
Jun 30, 2004
15,880
1,550
126
Some of us are not old, we are seasoned.

RAM typically lasts at least a decade and often longer, and most companies have a lifetime warranty on it. CPUs typically last a long time as well, and are usually only replaced because they become obsolete. Heck, you can still buy used working Voodoo 2 and 3 cards on Ebay.

The parts that typically don't last decades are power supplies, motherboards, and storage drives. However, I have seen several people on here who are still using/testing with motherboards that are 10+ years old. User VirtualLarry on here loves tinkering with older stuff. It all comes down to how long the capacitors last.

That's right -- seasoned.

There is a feature of silicon parts known as "infant mortality." If the part is going to fail, it is more likely to fail during the first 72 to 100 hours of operation. That is -- assuming there aren't other factors involved, like a failing PSU or motherboard component. Just guessing, I'd say this matter of failure probability is something like a Poisson distribution, but the engineers may correct me and call it something else.

The mechanical parts of HDDs will eventually suffer from wear. But it is certainly true: I've squeezed many years out of an old HDD.

As another poster said, MTBF is an extrapolated mean: based on samples of thousands of units. I'd say the main thing to be aware of is the cumulative writes to an SSD. While one might exceed a daily rate that could assure longer life, I can see from my bundled software keeping track of "terabytes-written" that I have a long way to go.

So I guess that leaves me with the question: "If a 960GB SSD costs $200 today, what will it cost next year?" It's fine in the meantime to squeeze more usage out of HDD technology: you can get a 3TB blue drive for $90. And I can get an extra boost of performance from such a drive by pairing it with a 120GB SSD and $30-worth of software. I think 120GB SSDs are going for -- what?-----less than $40? $30?

Whatever floats your boat, I say . . .
 

lenjack

Platinum Member
Oct 10, 1999
2,706
7
81
There are 3 simple answers... backup, BackUp, BACKUP!! My ssd is small, 240 GB, and I only use about 84, but I back it up weekly to a 1 TB HD, weekly, with 2 different imaging programs, and I always keep the latest two. That way, my HD is only filled to about 290 GB. Not very fancy, but works for me. I know this isn't suitable for intensive users.
 

BonzaiDuck

Lifer
Jun 30, 2004
15,880
1,550
126
There are 3 simple answers... backup, BackUp, BACKUP!! My ssd is small, 240 GB, and I only use about 84, but I back it up weekly to a 1 TB HD, weekly, with 2 different imaging programs, and I always keep the latest two. That way, my HD is only filled to about 290 GB. Not very fancy, but works for me. I know this isn't suitable for intensive users.

Makes me wonder why I'm in a hurry to build another server. My WHS-2011 is running on an old 680i motherboard and a Q6600. To the point -- I "don't back up my systems every day." My server does it while I'm sleeping every night. We've just made our third "bare-metal restore" from the server -- always goes as smooth as silk. I chose that route with me Moms' old system when I replaced her 120GB ElmCrest SSD with a Crucial MX200 250GB. I might just as well have cloned the old drive to the new, but I decided to pull it off the server.
 

Puffnstuff

Lifer
Mar 9, 2005
16,147
4,847
136
Hey,
I want to ask what's the SSD's MTBF?

It depends on the manufacturer and model as to what the mtbf is so you have to read the literature for a particular drive to know for sure how it's been rated. I'd take a ssd over a spinner any day of the week and when I can afford to I'm going all ssd and will not look back.
 

BonzaiDuck

Lifer
Jun 30, 2004
15,880
1,550
126
It depends on the manufacturer and model as to what the mtbf is so you have to read the literature for a particular drive to know for sure how it's been rated. I'd take a ssd over a spinner any day of the week and when I can afford to I'm going all ssd and will not look back.

Generally I'm leaning in that direction. But if you need 8, 12 . . . 16TB for server-duty, simply want to record movies through WMC, KODI, etc., it's more a matter of price, cost and benefit.

Besides. What am I going to do with all these 500GB and 1TB backup disks I seem to have accumulated? I still have 160GB IDE Hitachi's in my parts-locker. Sooner or later, as I trim out what's no longer useful, those are just going to the recycler after I wipe them.
 
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