Stalling on my squat

Page 2 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

Zivic

Diamond Member
Nov 25, 2002
3,505
38
91
Just did legs today. there were 6 other people doing "squats" at the same time I was. one kid that is actually pretty strong (I actually think he does PL competitions) doing doubles at 405 @ what I would guess about 185-190 body weight.... he was at least close to parallel, missing depth by about 2-3". All the others were HORRIBLE SAD... not even close.

I know I don't have perfect form, but then again, I am not going for big weight. I did 7 working sets and my last two sets I was pushing 305. It just kills me watching these people. they will eventually hurt themselves. some have their knees severely over their toes, their knees caving in, heals coming up off the floor and basically going maybe 1/2 depth. I bet you ask them and they would say their form is good and that they hit depth on their reps.

sometimes a full reset is in order to get your form in check. I needed it more than a couple times over the years. or maybe your form is good, but not optimal for your body type. you might need to change the bar position, widen or narrow your stance, change the angle of your toes. the more I think about, I doubt it is an actual strength thing and almost entirely related to your form
 

SP33Demon

Lifer
Jun 22, 2001
27,928
142
106
Ok, a couple of tips for you.

1) I wouldn't worry about cutting if you want strength. If you saw my body in the vid when I squatted 500 high bar @205 RAW last April you would chuckle because I'm at around 20% fat or more. However, most who saw me would say I'm "jacked" because of the bulk, just not "ripped". So stop worrying about cutting and just stick to your diet without overdoing the bad calories. That will be one area of stress removed from your life - calorie counting. You'll know if your waist is slightly expanding and you need to cut back, pay attention to your body and what you put in it.

2) Repping at 8-10reps is excessive. Our powerlifting team doesn't usually go over 5 reps unless we're "shocking" the body in an AMRAP final set. You're simply wasting too much energy with extra reps that you could be using for higher overload.

3) I know Pantz recommended squatting more per week, but I disagree. It will vary depending on age and person. I only squat twice a week - one speed day (very much like crossfit with 45-60 seconds between sets of 2) and one heavy day. I tried maxing twice a week (just last month as a matter of fact) and I was fried for my heavy day with my coach and my numbers dipped across the board. Some people thrive in this situation, I'm in my late 30's and need more recovery. You just have to test different methods over the years until you find what your body's limit is, we aren't at 16y/o testosterone levels anymore.

4) During one of your heavy days (at least once a month, we usually do 2), you're going to test your 1RM. Get the ammonia caps, take the caffeine, get a good spotter (even if it's metal pins), get your oly shoes, get your belt, use wrist wraps/knee sleeves if you want and be ready to fail. Expect to fail. In fact, practice throwing the bar off your back and bailing on the squat. If you're too worried about making noise, then you're either in the wrong gym or you have the wrong mindset. Testing your 1RM is critical to squatting more. The body has to feel the heavy weight many many times to adapt and progress.

5) You mentioned poor sleep. How are you going to produce HGH naturally without good sleep? Close all the curtains, make the room as dark as you can. If your bed sucks, get a new one. Take some ZMA if you've been cycling caffeine heavily and it should knock you out.

6) If you're constantly getting injured then your form probably needs fixing. If you're not getting injured with heavy weight, then you are probably ok. For example, I hurt my elbow squatting because it would travel too far under the bar. I haven't been injured in the 8 months since minor adjustments to form. I'll tweak something every now and then, but it's usually due to overexertion on speed day or when I ego-lift without a belt when I shouldn't. Or when I go for a new max a second time after missing it (again, ego). All in all, nothing debilitating in the past 7 months regarding squatting/deadlifting but I take max attempts with the a life or death attitude where each one could blow out my back or knee. Don't lose focus, every max rep is deadly.

7) Try to reduce stress if you can. Downtime is important, do something that is relaxing to you (and no hockey doesn't count). If hockey is burning you out, then quit it. Maybe smoke weed like Arnold - remember Arnold didn't even go to his dad's funeral because of a competition where he knew the stress would hurt him. That may sound extreme, but it's somewhat true. Your body isn't going to grow as fast with stress. If anyone knows that, it's me - I've had like 3 major life events in the past year and my numbers have stalled but barely dipped. Also, cut out alcohol if possible, and go to bed early. Don't sweat the small stuff, life isn't that serious until you have double bodyweight+ on your back.
 
Last edited:

z1ggy

Lifer
May 17, 2008
10,004
63
91
Just did legs today. there were 6 other people doing "squats" at the same time I was. one kid that is actually pretty strong (I actually think he does PL competitions) doing doubles at 405 @ what I would guess about 185-190 body weight.... he was at least close to parallel, missing depth by about 2-3". All the others were HORRIBLE SAD... not even close.

I know I don't have perfect form, but then again, I am not going for big weight. I did 7 working sets and my last two sets I was pushing 305. It just kills me watching these people. they will eventually hurt themselves. some have their knees severely over their toes, their knees caving in, heals coming up off the floor and basically going maybe 1/2 depth. I bet you ask them and they would say their form is good and that they hit depth on their reps.

sometimes a full reset is in order to get your form in check. I needed it more than a couple times over the years. or maybe your form is good, but not optimal for your body type. you might need to change the bar position, widen or narrow your stance, change the angle of your toes. the more I think about, I doubt it is an actual strength thing and almost entirely related to your form
Make a good point. Ever since my hip surgery I've felt lost on where I even should have my feet placed. When I do air squats just warming up I put my feet fairly close together and it feels awesome.. No bar, just body weight warming up doing like 20 reps.

But then when I take a high bar stance, that feels terrible. I generally have a fairly wide stance due to the hip mobility thing. I think this makes me utilize much less glute and much more inner thigh muscle.

I have experimented quite a bit with toe angle and I am pretty confident that i need a decent amount of outward pointing just due to the way my femur sits in the socket.

Wish I could film video for some of you more expert guys. But my gym is in work, and work does not allow cameras of any type.
 

Zivic

Diamond Member
Nov 25, 2002
3,505
38
91
Make a good point. Ever since my hip surgery I've felt lost on where I even should have my feet placed. When I do air squats just warming up I put my feet fairly close together and it feels awesome.. No bar, just body weight warming up doing like 20 reps.

But then when I take a high bar stance, that feels terrible. I generally have a fairly wide stance due to the hip mobility thing. I think this makes me utilize much less glute and much more inner thigh muscle.

I have experimented quite a bit with toe angle and I am pretty confident that i need a decent amount of outward pointing just due to the way my femur sits in the socket.

Wish I could film video for some of you more expert guys. But my gym is in work, and work does not allow cameras of any type.

generally speaking, if you have a wide stance, it should incorporate more glutes into the lift. the strength comes from the hips and glutes, but if you have mobility issues with the hip I would say that would be my first concern. work on getting the hips mobile, make sure you are sitting into the squat, pushing through the heals, back is staying on a plain, make sure your knees stay out and most likely you should be good to go
 

z1ggy

Lifer
May 17, 2008
10,004
63
91
Ok, a couple of tips for you.

1) I wouldn't worry about cutting if you want strength. If you saw my body in the vid when I squatted 500 high bar @205 RAW last April you would chuckle because I'm at around 20% fat or more. However, most who saw me would say I'm "jacked" because of the bulk, just not "ripped". So stop worrying about cutting and just stick to your diet without overdoing the bad calories. That will be one area of stress removed from your life - calorie counting. You'll know if your waist is slightly expanding and you need to cut back, pay attention to your body and what you put in it.

Well, I guess I was misleading a bit? Right now I am bulking...And I guess I take more of a hybrid approach to my lifting in general. I do heavy compounds followed by ore high rep isolation exercises. So on my compound stuff (specifically squat right now) I am stalling out. I'm eating big so I kind of assumed I'd slowly just go up and up until I hit my cut (I lift for looks, I don't compete) when I know my strength will probably go down.

2) Repping at 8-10reps is excessive. Our powerlifting team doesn't usually go over 5 reps unless we're "shocking" the body in an AMRAP final set. You're simply wasting too much energy with extra reps that you could be using for higher overload.

For squats, basically do 3-4 sets of 3-6 reps. I keep the weight as high as it can be in order to get those reps. Some days its 3 sets of 5-6 @ 225, then 1 set of 205 for 6-8...it's just whatever I feel that day. I think do 9-12 sets of iso moves like ham curls, lunges, leg extensions, hip thrusts etc.

3) I know Pantz recommended squatting more per week, but I disagree. It will vary depending on age and person. I only squat twice a week - one speed day (very much like crossfit with 45-60 seconds between sets of 2) and one heavy day. I tried maxing twice a week (just last month as a matter of fact) and I was fried for my heavy day with my coach and my numbers dipped across the board. Some people thrive in this situation, I'm in my late 30's and need more recovery. You just have to test different methods over the years until you find what your body's limit is, we aren't at 16y/o testosterone levels anymore.

Right now do to my schedule and life...I'm only lifting 3x a week. I can go up to 5x, but I found in the past that after 6-8 weeks, my body just... hurts? Hard to explain. It felt like I was just constantly tight/sore and I was actually getting weaker on some things. To me, that spelled out over use. Could have been due to not eating enough/ bad sleep though.

4) During one of your heavy days (at least once a month, we usually do 2), you're going to test your 1RM. Get the ammonia caps, take the caffeine, get a good spotter (even if it's metal pins), get your oly shoes, get your belt, use wrist wraps/knee sleeves if you want and be ready to fail. Expect to fail. In fact, practice throwing the bar off your back and bailing on the squat. If you're too worried about making noise, then you're either in the wrong gym or you have the wrong mindset. Testing your 1RM is critical to squatting more. The body has to feel the heavy weight many many times to adapt and progress.

Yeah my thing is... I basically only test 1rm every 2 months or so. Progress is kind of to the point for me now where I'm only gaining 1 rep per week or so, sometimes 2 if I feel good. For squat, I do worry about dumping the weight improperly and hurting myself. I do usually have a spot though, and he's half way decent at it. Nobody has ever actually showed me how to dump weight if I had to though... And I lift at work where big heavy clunks and stuff aren't really expected. Everything is metal plates, no rubber oly stuff around here.

5) You mentioned poor sleep. How are you going to produce HGH naturally without good sleep? Close all the curtains, make the room as dark as you can. If your bed sucks, get a new one. Take some ZMA if you've been cycling caffeine heavily and it should knock you out.

ZMA never worked for me really. I did try it and I felt no positive or negative affects. Honestly, I think I suffer from anxiety and could potentially need to go on medication. I've had multiple tests and things done to try and assess why I constantly feel shitty/tired and nothing has come up. It might be time to try something along those lines.

6) If you're constantly getting injured then your form probably needs fixing. If you're not getting injured with heavy weight, then you are probably ok. For example, I hurt my elbow squatting because it would travel too far under the bar. I haven't been injured in the 8 months since minor adjustments to form. I'll tweak something every now and then, but it's usually due to overexertion on speed day or when I ego-lift without a belt when I shouldn't. Or when I go for a new max a second time after missing it (again, ego). All in all, nothing debilitating in the past 7 months regarding squatting/deadlifting but I take max attempts with the a life or death attitude where each one could blow out my back or knee. Don't lose focus, every max rep is deadly.

Injury wise, I'm ok. My shoulders are always kind of jacked up due to hockey and old baseball injury. Like I said... The hip is just very tight. The flexors themselves are, but I do stretch often. I know they need to get looser. However, the actual joint itself likely has scar tissue in it from the surgery and I can't do much about that. I just try to warm up as best I can. Maybe some advil before squat day will help?

7) Try to reduce stress if you can. Downtime is important, do something that is relaxing to you (and no hockey doesn't count). If hockey is burning you out, then quit it. Maybe smoke weed like Arnold - remember Arnold didn't even go to his dad's funeral because of a competition where he knew the stress would hurt him. That may sound extreme, but it's somewhat true. Your body isn't going to grow as fast with stress. If anyone knows that, it's me - I've had like 3 major life events in the past year and my numbers have stalled but barely dipped. Also, cut out alcohol if possible, and go to bed early. Don't sweat the small stuff, life isn't that serious until you have double bodyweight+ on your back.

Yeah and he also never had girl friends either because he did not want stress in his life. Guy was dedicated beyond belief. Right now I am dealing with a few minor life things, but nothing too stressful. Looking for a new job and trying to sell my house is kind of stressful, but nothing really to write home about. The weed thing....Not really an option because I'm sure if I do get a new job they will drug test. Maybe once I got a new job.

At the end of the day, I just want to look good but still have respectable numbers. Would it be cool to squat DBW? Yeah obviously, but saying I'm repping 225... that's just so lame. Christ, I'm almost benching that much now, but I'm training all my body the same amount per week... It's just the squat has stalled and the bench has not. I suspect form is #1 issue.

Bold
 

z1ggy

Lifer
May 17, 2008
10,004
63
91
generally speaking, if you have a wide stance, it should incorporate more glutes into the lift. the strength comes from the hips and glutes, but if you have mobility issues with the hip I would say that would be my first concern. work on getting the hips mobile, make sure you are sitting into the squat, pushing through the heals, back is staying on a plain, make sure your knees stay out and most likely you should be good to go

I think I need to work on ankle mobility, too. Even with my oly shoes, I feel my heel lift up just a touch. Got smoked with a slap shot in hockey a while ago right in the right ankle, think it might have caused a few hairline fractures...Def does not feel the same as it did before.

I might need to go to PT or massage therapy for this because it seems just doing some minor static stretching isn't helping. Probably making me weaker if anything.
 

Pantlegz

Diamond Member
Jun 6, 2007
4,627
4
81
Ok, a couple of tips for you.


3) I know Pantz recommended squatting more per week, but I disagree. It will vary depending on age and person. I only squat twice a week - one speed day (very much like crossfit with 45-60 seconds between sets of 2) and one heavy day. I tried maxing twice a week (just last month as a matter of fact) and I was fried for my heavy day with my coach and my numbers dipped across the board. Some people thrive in this situation, I'm in my late 30's and need more recovery. You just have to test different methods over the years until you find what your body's limit is, we aren't at 16y/o testosterone levels anymore.

I never said you had to lift heavy everyday. I would suggest doing one heavy day, one speed day, and one volume day. That or just add 6-8 reps (doubles/singles/whatever) at 80% of your 1RM(or 80% of 90-95% of your 1RM) which should be the lower end of your working sets anyway. So in this case 250*.8=200 or 250*.95*.80=190 or at the very low end 250*.90*.80=180.

I've also found that doing 3rd world squats for 2-3 minutes a day really helps a lot for form. I typically do 30-60 quick bodyweight squats before and after to warm up and stretch out a little after sitting at the bottom of the squat for that long. See https://www.t-nation.com/training/third-world-squat for good examples of progression. I've found this helps keep me more upright and tight up top when I'm lifting heavy.
 

z1ggy

Lifer
May 17, 2008
10,004
63
91
Just wanted to add that I think I've potentially found the root cause of my issue: Lack of mobility in my ankle joint. Specifically due to tight calves.

My lift buddy watched my form, and I even noticed and agreed with him that my heels seem to lift a little bit (even in Adi's D: ) and I'm pushing a little through the toes. So I'm going to be stretching them out every day, foam rolling/using lax ball, etc to try and loosen them up.

Like I said, I play hockey and I'm up on my toes a lot, and have been for years. I'm also a "toe walker" and thus have pretty tight calves. I thought for a while it was my hips causing me the problem, but when I hold on to something so I can lean back just a touch... I can get really deep in the squat position just fine.

As far as routine, I'm now sticking to something like 5x5, twice a week. It's helping, but slowly. I'm gaining a few reps here and there, but I haven't gone back to test my 1RM yet.
 

Zivic

Diamond Member
Nov 25, 2002
3,505
38
91
Just wanted to add that I think I've potentially found the root cause of my issue: Lack of mobility in my ankle joint. Specifically due to tight calves.

My lift buddy watched my form, and I even noticed and agreed with him that my heels seem to lift a little bit (even in Adi's D: ) and I'm pushing a little through the toes. So I'm going to be stretching them out every day, foam rolling/using lax ball, etc to try and loosen them up.

Like I said, I play hockey and I'm up on my toes a lot, and have been for years. I'm also a "toe walker" and thus have pretty tight calves. I thought for a while it was my hips causing me the problem, but when I hold on to something so I can lean back just a touch... I can get really deep in the squat position just fine.

As far as routine, I'm now sticking to something like 5x5, twice a week. It's helping, but slowly. I'm gaining a few reps here and there, but I haven't gone back to test my 1RM yet.


good you found the issue. it must be fairly significant if youre lifting with the adipowers. get it corrected as it would eventually cause issues with your knees.

gotta push through the heals
 

z1ggy

Lifer
May 17, 2008
10,004
63
91
good you found the issue. it must be fairly significant if youre lifting with the adipowers. get it corrected as it would eventually cause issues with your knees.

gotta push through the heals

Yeah it's pretty bad compared to how much my friend can flex his ankle forward. So I'll be doing those stretches everyday and see if that helps to push through the heel more.
 
sale-70-410-exam    | Exam-200-125-pdf    | we-sale-70-410-exam    | hot-sale-70-410-exam    | Latest-exam-700-603-Dumps    | Dumps-98-363-exams-date    | Certs-200-125-date    | Dumps-300-075-exams-date    | hot-sale-book-C8010-726-book    | Hot-Sale-200-310-Exam    | Exam-Description-200-310-dumps?    | hot-sale-book-200-125-book    | Latest-Updated-300-209-Exam    | Dumps-210-260-exams-date    | Download-200-125-Exam-PDF    | Exam-Description-300-101-dumps    | Certs-300-101-date    | Hot-Sale-300-075-Exam    | Latest-exam-200-125-Dumps    | Exam-Description-200-125-dumps    | Latest-Updated-300-075-Exam    | hot-sale-book-210-260-book    | Dumps-200-901-exams-date    | Certs-200-901-date    | Latest-exam-1Z0-062-Dumps    | Hot-Sale-1Z0-062-Exam    | Certs-CSSLP-date    | 100%-Pass-70-383-Exams    | Latest-JN0-360-real-exam-questions    | 100%-Pass-4A0-100-Real-Exam-Questions    | Dumps-300-135-exams-date    | Passed-200-105-Tech-Exams    | Latest-Updated-200-310-Exam    | Download-300-070-Exam-PDF    | Hot-Sale-JN0-360-Exam    | 100%-Pass-JN0-360-Exams    | 100%-Pass-JN0-360-Real-Exam-Questions    | Dumps-JN0-360-exams-date    | Exam-Description-1Z0-876-dumps    | Latest-exam-1Z0-876-Dumps    | Dumps-HPE0-Y53-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-HPE0-Y53-Exam    | 100%-Pass-HPE0-Y53-Real-Exam-Questions    | Pass-4A0-100-Exam    | Latest-4A0-100-Questions    | Dumps-98-365-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-98-365-Exam    | 100%-Pass-VCS-254-Exams    | 2017-Latest-VCS-273-Exam    | Dumps-200-355-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-300-320-Exam    | Pass-300-101-Exam    | 100%-Pass-300-115-Exams    |
http://www.portvapes.co.uk/    | http://www.portvapes.co.uk/    |