Stalling on my squat

[z1ggy]

Seems like no matter what I do, I cant progress past ~250lb. I'll go real heavy for a few weeks and just do sets of 1-3.. maybe 5 sets total... or go real light for a while and rock AMRAP for maybe 8-10 sets.

I'm struggling because I feel like there's no real substitute for squats. With bench, I can go do dumbbells, switch grip position, or change angle. With squat, the only other choice is.... squat. Leg presses just aren't the same and I only really do them if I want to target the outer quad specifically, because it's easy to leg press with your feet extremely close together.

Seriously, I've been stuck on this weight for such a long time, it's really pissing me off.

 

[Davidpaul007]

Well, the first question is whether you are eating and resting enough to gain muscle. Regardless of the workout, if those fundamental s aren't taken care of your progress will be slow (or mayne none). 2nd, how much other "stuff" are you doing. Ie, hockey on the weekends, cardio, etc.

 

[Zivic]

I guess the only option is drugs

 

[Pantlegz]

Increase the frequency. Squat everyday you're in the gym, finish every non-squat specific day with 5 singles at 80-90%. If you're already squatting everyday you're in the gym, go to the gym more days. Rest is overemphasized imo, I lift heavy 2-3 time a week and do Jiu-Jitsu 4-5 days a week, plus Yoga as my only exercise on Saturday. That's 1-2, two-a-days, 4-5 days of just one workout a day, and Saturday as active rest. I'm not over training, if you're doing less than me you're more than likely capable of doing more.

 

[z1ggy]

Well, the first question is whether you are eating and resting enough to gain muscle. Regardless of the workout, if those fundamental s aren't taken care of your progress will be slow (or mayne none). 2nd, how much other "stuff" are you doing. Ie, hockey on the weekends, cardio, etc.

PRetty much still following your overall approach: Lifting MWF, do abs and stretch TTH. Hockey is 1x a week, usually Tuesday night.

Sleep probably isn't optimal, I've been struggling for years to wake up feeling rested. Could be anxiety.

I guess the only option is drugs

Yeah I think so

Increase the frequency. Squat everyday you're in the gym, finish every non-squat specific day with 5 singles at 80-90%. If you're already squatting everyday you're in the gym, go to the gym more days. Rest is overemphasized imo, I lift heavy 2-3 time a week and do Jiu-Jitsu 4-5 days a week, plus Yoga as my only exercise on Saturday. That's 1-2, two-a-days, 4-5 days of just one workout a day, and Saturday as active rest. I'm not over training, if you're doing less than me you're more than likely capable of doing more.

That used to be me and I got burned out after about three months. My recovery times are generally pretty high I think, relative to average. Did my squats yesterday and I'm pretty sore right now. I'm guessing I will still be sore come Friday and maybe by Saturday I'll be back to no symptoms of DOMS.

I am down though for tossing in a few singles though after each lift to try and boost up my strength. It's just weird because I've steadily risen on all my other lifts over the past 1-1.5yrs except squat.

 

[Davidpaul007]

Increase the frequency. Squat everyday you're in the gym, finish every non-squat specific day with 5 singles at 80-90%. If you're already squatting everyday you're in the gym, go to the gym more days. Rest is overemphasized imo, I lift heavy 2-3 time a week and do Jiu-Jitsu 4-5 days a week, plus Yoga as my only exercise on Saturday. That's 1-2, two-a-days, 4-5 days of just one workout a day, and Saturday as active rest. I'm not over training, if you're doing less than me you're more than likely capable of doing more.

You are painting with some very broad strokes. Everyone's capacity for recovery varies. Personally, mine is low. When I squat or deadlift heavy it's at least 4 days until I'm ready for more. However, I only squat and dead lift once a week 90% of the time and make good progress when I'm eating enough.
Granted, I've never experimented with high frequency squating and to do so I know would require a lower % of 1rm lifting.

My legs are ok.

 

[blackdogdeek]

Have you tried front squats, pistols, air squats, jump squats, pause squats, box squats, front rack lunges, walking lunges, overhead squats, overhead lunges?

 

[gradoman]

I used: http://www.canditotraininghq.com/free-strength-programs/ 6 week strength program. Pretty tough, but it has helped me out.

Haven't done much accessory work besides single leg leg press.

 

[Pantlegz]

You are painting with some very broad strokes. Everyone's capacity for recovery varies. Personally, mine is low. When I squat or deadlift heavy it's at least 4 days until I'm ready for more. However, I only squat and dead lift once a week 90% of the time and make good progress when I'm eating enough.
Granted, I've never experimented with high frequency squating and to do so I know would require a lower % of 1rm lifting.

My legs are ok.

I also qualified my statement with more than likely. And there's a big difference between looking ok and being strong as fuck. I rep out ~2x+ bw once or twice a week because I want to be strong. I would lift less if my concern was simply looking ok. I squat or deadlift when I'm sore more often than now but I've learned that after a couple heavy sets that pain subsides and I actually feel better than I would when I'm not sore before lifting. Working through some soreness is what is required if you want to be strong, if you want to look pretty it's cool to just do legs one day a week. I'll keep deadlifting 500+ then squat 450+ in the same workout. My answer still stands, increase frequency and get stronger. Even if it's just for a couple months, then you can go back to squatting once or twice a week and maintain those gains for a while until you run into another plateau.

If you're recovering slow, sleep more. People laugh when I tell them I start relaxing at 9pm and I'm in bed by 10:00 and asleep no later 10:30 then get up at 7am.

 

[z1ggy]

Have you tried front squats, pistols, air squats, jump squats, pause squats, box squats, front rack lunges, walking lunges, overhead squats, overhead lunges?

I have been doing lunges on and off if my knees give me some trouble. Hockey definitely takes a toll on the knees and hips when you've been playing for a long time.

Pistols I think will be good for a change of pace though.

If you're recovering slow, sleep more. People laugh when I tell them I start relaxing at 9pm and I'm in bed by 10:00 and asleep no later 10:30 then get up at 7am.

Well, I wake up at 5:30am every day. Another negative of the hockey is adult leagues play at stupid late times. Some nights I'm not in bed until midnight, and up at 5:30am for work. I can't catch up on sleep until the weekend. I know this 100% affects me because over Thanksgiving break, I ended up PR'ing on squat and OHP and was the best I'd felt in forever. That's because the night before my lift (Thanksgiving was prior) I slept like 12 hours.

With that being said, I am not willing to give up hockey. I'd rather have fun playing hockey and do sports then get "really strong". I do however want to look good, which I think at a low body fat, I already do. I'm just annoyed by stalling because obviously getting stronger will be beneficial.

 

[Zivic]

I also qualified my statement with more than likely. And there's a big difference between looking ok and being strong as fuck. I rep out ~2x+ bw once or twice a week because I want to be strong. I would lift less if my concern was simply looking ok. I squat or deadlift when I'm sore more often than now but I've learned that after a couple heavy sets that pain subsides and I actually feel better than I would when I'm not sore before lifting. Working through some soreness is what is required if you want to be strong, if you want to look pretty it's cool to just do legs one day a week. I'll keep deadlifting 500+ then squat 450+ in the same workout. My answer still stands, increase frequency and get stronger. Even if it's just for a couple months, then you can go back to squatting once or twice a week and maintain those gains for a while until you run into another plateau.

If you're recovering slow, sleep more. People laugh when I tell them I start relaxing at 9pm and I'm in bed by 10:00 and asleep no later 10:30 then get up at 7am.

looking pretty is harder work than being strong.

I was pretty stupid strong training legs 1 time a week. Now that I want to look pretty I train legs 2-3 times a week (every 3rd day). If you are really training heavy and hard going more than every 5 days is not something you can do for any extended period of time (at least not naturally). if you keep your intensity up, keep the weights moderate you can really increase the volume making good progress (hypertrophy wise).

if strength is your main goal I would keep it simple. follow max-ot training principles

if you want size then there is more experimentation involved to figure out what your body responds to. some will still be fine with the simple hit em hard and heavy with a fair amount of rest between sessions.

I find I still have a decent amount of the 1-3 rep strength I had back in the day even though my training style has change A LOT. I say that as I feel training for strength as your main goal is very important for people starting out. learn how to do the lifts and lift to get as strong as you can. if you continue working out, regardless of training style you will have a good base to work from

if you are really stuck at a plateau some times it best to take time off... like a week. you might come back weaker for a couple weeks, but should push beyond the sticking point within a month. You could also just try deloading for a few sessions.

also if you are doing any sort of cardio within a day, day and a half of that session, stop. I have acquired quite a negative view of cardio in relation to strength and fat loss.

 

[Sid59]

As you can see, there's a variety of options, so i'll just toss this out there.

* add front squat to your routine. You didn't say if you're low bar or high bar squating but either way, front squats will add so much to your midline/core stability and legs.

* vary your rep schemes and percentages. something like ..
- Heavy 5 rep max and then a drop set at 80% of 3 sets of 5
- Heavy 3 rep max and then a drop set at 80% of 3 sets of 3
- 5 sets of 1 at 90%
- Speed work at like 70%
- i subscribe to the .. lots of work in reps around 80-90% of 1RM will increase your strength
- etc ..

I didn't see it in the thread but body weight?

 

[Zivic]

Thought about this as I workout today as I watch how people are training around me... Are you sure your form is decent? 250 really isn't much weight for a 1 rep max. Would think with decent form and even moderate training sessions it should be no issue.

I would first verify your form before switching to a new program

 

[Davidpaul007]

I also qualified my statement with more than likely. And there's a big difference between looking ok and being strong as fuck. I rep out ~2x+ bw once or twice a week because I want to be strong. I would lift less if my concern was simply looking ok. I squat or deadlift when I'm sore more often than now but I've learned that after a couple heavy sets that pain subsides and I actually feel better than I would when I'm not sore before lifting. Working through some soreness is what is required if you want to be strong, if you want to look pretty it's cool to just do legs one day a week. I'll keep deadlifting 500+ then squat 450+ in the same workout. My answer still stands, increase frequency and get stronger. Even if it's just for a couple months, then you can go back to squatting once or twice a week and maintain those gains for a while until you run into another plateau.

If you're recovering slow, sleep more. People laugh when I tell them I start relaxing at 9pm and I'm in bed by 10:00 and asleep no later 10:30 then get up at 7am.

Personally, I want to look good and be strong as heck. Both goals take time.

Being ready to train again is not necessarily linked to muscle soreness, but capacity of the muscle to do work and the CNS ability to activate muscles to full capacity. I train all the time while still sore (Monday's I deadlift and I'm nearly always still sore from my Friday squat session).

You are stupid strong - I hope one day I can be there. I know that Layne Norton is a proponent of high frequency lifting and he's strong as heck too.

As far as sleep I too need to get 8-9/night if at all possible and when I don't it shows in my ability to make gains.

You have some very good suggestions in this thread (by others) for training things to try. Whatever you do, you must be consistent to know if it's going to work for you.

 

[blackdogdeek]

Pistols I think will be good for a change of pace though.

Just be careful with these as they can cause issues if you have ankle mobility issues. You can also make them a bit easier by doing them on a box or raised platform so that your extended leg doesn't have to be held straight out parallel to the floor.

That's because the night before my lift (Thanksgiving was prior) I slept like 12 hours.

All I'm hearing is big turkey dinner = gainz

 

[bradley]

Whenever I reach plateaus I increase mobility work and also break the lift into smaller parts to work more on isolation movements. For squats, I would hit the glutes and lower back hard with weighted pelvic thrusts and roman chairs.

I also think most lifters neglect their hamstrings. So I hit those harder than normal as well. I even notice my squats have more upper mobility and bounce when performing leg curls first.

 

[Pantlegz]

I would first verify your form before switching to a new program

I was thinking the same thing while I was lifting tonight, 250 is really light even for small guys.

Personally, I want to look good and be strong as heck. Both goals take time.

Being ready to train again is not necessarily linked to muscle soreness, but capacity of the muscle to do work and the CNS ability to activate muscles to full capacity. I train all the time while still sore (Monday's I deadlift and I'm nearly always still sore from my Friday squat session).

You are stupid strong - I hope one day I can be there. I know that Layne Norton is a proponent of high frequency lifting and he's strong as heck too.

As far as sleep I too need to get 8-9/night if at all possible and when I don't it shows in my ability to make gains.

You have some very good suggestions in this thread (by others) for training things to try. Whatever you do, you must be consistent to know if it's going to work for you.

I agree, I want both too. I'm not some fat slob that just wants to move as much weight as humanly possible but if I'm concerned about lifting more my physique will have to suffer from time to time. As far as CNS fatigue, it takes a serious amount of training to really get CNS fatigue, there's been plenty of research you can find with a little searching. But basically if you're not doing 2-3 workouts a day the odds of being close to CNS fatigue are slim.

looking pretty is harder work than being strong.

I disagree, just need to be more dedicated to a diet and lift to look pretty. Not that being strong is much more difficult, just move heavy things and eat more. I prefer to be athletic which I put at the top of the heap as far as difficulty is concerned

 

[z1ggy]

I have acquired quite a negative view of cardio in relation to strength and fat loss.

Elaborate please. I'm starting cut in Feb. I was planning on doing a decent amount of cardio right out of the gate...

You can PM me a response if you want as it's unrelated to the topic at hand.

I didn't see it in the thread but body weight?

Current weight is ~200lb, on a bulk. Holding a lot of water and glycogen right now.

Thought about this as I workout today as I watch how people are training around me... Are you sure your form is decent? 250 really isn't much weight for a 1 rep max. Would think with decent form and even moderate training sessions it should be no issue.

I would first verify your form before switching to a new program

Yeah, I've had people check my form. Ankle dorsiflexion and hip mobility are a huge problem for me (I'm high bar squatting). I grabbed some Adipowers to help with the ankle issue, but due to my hip surgery, the scar tissue left in the joint does give me issues.

I realize 250 is not a lot. I was squatting over 300lb when I was just 16, and somehow 10 years later I'm weaker.

As you know, I've only truly been consistent with the gym and eating right for about 1.5yrs now. I'm still trying to figure my body out. It's hard to tell with all the variables that exist in life if I respond better to less frequent training with heavy weight in the 70-90% 1RM range, or more frequent training in the 50-70% range with more volume.

 

[z1ggy]

Whenever I reach plateaus I increase mobility work and also break the lift into smaller parts to work more on isolation movements. For squats, I would hit the glutes and lower back hard with weighted pelvic thrusts and roman chairs.

I also think most lifters neglect their hamstrings. So I hit those harder than normal as well. I even notice my squats have more upper mobility and bounce when performing leg curls first.

I was doing hip thrusts for a while after squats. I felt like it was very hard to maintain good form and I honestly don't even think I was doing them right. I made it all the way up to like 205lb but I think that's because I was really using my lower back to do most of the work as opposed to my glutes.

I did them again this week with just 65lb but I really concentrated on only lifting up the weight with my glutes, and it was much harder. I'll start to toss in some of these, and more stiff leg dead lifts.

I really think the main issue here is my sleep and stress levels. I'm sleeping like shit, and I'm in the middle of my house and interviewing for a new job.

 

[Zivic]

I disagree, just need to be more dedicated to a diet and lift to look pretty. Not that being strong is much more difficult, just move heavy things and eat more. I prefer to be athletic which I put at the top of the heap as far as difficulty is concerned

to be strong you have to hit 4-5 sets a week on a lift... that's easy. the intensity is equal to or higher than what I was doing for strength, yet the workouts are usually 15-30 minutes longer. you really don't have to watch your diet for strength other than eating enough. in terms of gym time, it is about 1/3 of what I put in now. in terms of outside the gym time, it is a VERY small fraction of what I do now

Elaborate please. I'm starting cut in Feb. I was planning on doing a decent amount of cardio right out of the gate...

You can PM me a response if you want as it's unrelated to the topic at hand.


Cardio takes away the gains you made lifting. for those trying to lose weight it can be a useful tool, but it can also be detrimental to their progress. You are best off being strict with your diet. when you lose weight you will lose muscle . Cardio can make the amount of muscle you lose on a cut increase. adding in cardio can increase your appetite... even just mentally you might think, well I did 40 minutes so I can eat a little more of XXXX.... when in reality what you "worked off" is probably half of what you end up eating. this results in a loss of muscle mass from the cardio and addition of extra calories from over eating. exact opposite of what you wanted.

I guess it goes back to my old thought that you cannot outwork a bad diet

Cardio as it relates to strength in your situation is that simply put you will have fatigued the muscles to some extent if you played hockey the night before a squat session



Yeah, I've had people check my form. Ankle dorsiflexion and hip mobility are a huge problem for me (I'm high bar squatting). I grabbed some Adipowers to help with the ankle issue, but due to my hip surgery, the scar tissue left in the joint does give me issues.

I realize 250 is not a lot. I was squatting over 300lb when I was just 16, and somehow 10 years later I'm weaker.

As you know, I've only truly been consistent with the gym and eating right for about 1.5yrs now. I'm still trying to figure my body out. It's hard to tell with all the variables that exist in life if I respond better to less frequent training with heavy weight in the 70-90% 1RM range, or more frequent training in the 50-70% range with more volume.

I'm willing to bet you have form issues. I know we are all different, but I've done an 8x8 squat workout with 235, and think I could get it at 250 -> 8 sets of 8 reps with 30 seconds of rest between sets.

if you were a 140 lbs that's one thing, but at 200 it should be handled pretty easily.

does it feel heavy when you unrack it?

 

[Zivic]

I really think the main issue here is my sleep and stress levels. I'm sleeping like shit, and I'm in the middle of my house and interviewing for a new job.

if this is the case, cut back to some moderate weight with slightly higher reps. keep your workouts moving a little faster. instead of 2 minutes between sets, go a minute to minute and a half.

do you always squat first in your sessions? if so, squat at the end of the session for 2-3 weeks.

 

[z1ggy]

if this is the case, cut back to some moderate weight with slightly higher reps. keep your workouts moving a little faster. instead of 2 minutes between sets, go a minute to minute and a half.

do you always squat first in your sessions? if so, squat at the end of the session for 2-3 weeks.

Right now, I'm lifting 3x a week. General approach is 6-10 reps, usually 3-6 sets per exercise starting @ ~80-90% 1RM. On leg day, I squat first and I have been doing 6 sets, then followed by some Stiff Leg DL or hamstring curls. Lately I have been doing some glute work like hip bridge/thrust.

Mon: Chest & Tri
Weds: Legs & Shoulders
Fri: Back & Bi

Tues & Thurs: Abs and stretch

Here's what I did Weds for legs:

Squat: 225x6, 205x6, 185x8, 155x10, 135x10, 135x8
Stiff Leg: 155x10, 155x10, 155x10 (Easy for me, but I'm trying to take it easy on my back)

And for kicks I did:
Hammie Curls on Machine: 50x10, 50x8
Hip Thrust on floor: 65x12, 65x12
Leg Extension (ultra light): 20x20, 20x20

 

[imported_Irse]

You're playing hockey the night before you squat? Squat when you are more rested, either Mon or Fri. Do you squat with a partner? Partner will sometimes help you push through a sticking point.

 

[z1ggy]

Well, if I do have hockey on Tues, then I do it Friday. Maybe I should do it Monday, when I'm technically the most rested.

 

[imported_Irse]

Well, if I do have hockey on Tues, then I do it Friday. Maybe I should do it Monday, when I'm technically the most rested.

For me, squatting took the most out of me so I did it on Mon. (hopefully didn't party too much over the weekend). Personally, I would not do lunges. We did do leg ext for the quads, leg curls for the hamstrings and calf raises. Also important to do weighted ab exercises. Nice to have tone abs but you also want some strong abs for your core.

These are stuff we used to do when I powerlifted. I wasn't very good but some of the other guys competed nationally. Some of the older guys went to the world masters. Of course some things that worked for us may not work for you and vice versa.

But would also be good to have a training partner for you squat night.