Star Citizen: Chris Robert`s new space sim (the Wing Commander guy)

[Arglebargle]

There's a problem with the Cult of Roberts and their reliance on Chris's statements: As one dev who worked closely with Roberts put it, 'Roberts believes everything he says, no matter how tenuously connected to reality it may be.' Also considers him to be a narcissistic egomaniac.

In the past, he had people who could rein in his overweening ambition; now, not so. Even with people riding herd on him in the past, Roberts still helmed projects that were way overbudget and years late. (Strike Commander, Freelancer).

Better hope, as another co-worker put it, 'that he's matured some in the last 15 years.'

 

[ThinClient]

He knows this, he just makes a conscious choice to instead make up blatantly false points in order to elicit a response from forum members. I think there's an internet term for this.

Wrong, but thanks for telling me what I know and don't know.

All I've seen is hype hype hype and lies lies lies from Roberts and I'm astounded at the number of people buying into it.

This is exactly what he did with [previous projects]. Hyped the ever living urine out of it, promised the stars and delivered nothing close to what was promised.

I haven't made up blatantly false points. If you want to call me a liar, feel free to bust out your SDK and prove me wrong.

 

[ThinClient]

And again, he hasn't been hyping it at ALL. He has DOWNPLAYED IT AT EVERY OPPORTUNITY! And BECAUSE OF THIS, EVERYONE KNOWS that it isn't a big deal (sorry, everyone who has read up on, or searched the forums for a single official post on LTI, or watched the countless videos that explained LTI knows this, which obviously you didn't because if you had then you wouldn't have imaginary stuff to crap on the game for), and as such, everyone knows it isn't an empty sales pitch. If you had ACTUALLY been FOLLOWING the game instead of just CRAPPING on it at EVERY CHANCE then you would know this...

But then again, what should we expect, as EVERY comment you have made in this thread has shown that you have not been following the VAST amount of information they are releasing, with hundreds of hours of video content, interviews, behind the scenes information, future outlook, and planned features, all of which contradicts almost EVERY WORD YOU POST.

You know what, sure the current art assets might not be optimized in the SDK right now. Guess what? THE GAME ISN'T DUE OUT FOR A YEAR AT LEAST! The engine isn't even the 64 bit version yet. Multiplayer ships havn't been released yet (dealing with ships moving while a player moves within the ship, without the ship "killing" the player by running over them). The assets you are looking at are 3-4 revisions behind the different development branches. And typically art asset optimization is the LAST thing you do before release otherwise you are wasting time optimizing an art asset which might still change!!! If you were a game developer or worked with ones YOU WOULD KNOW THIS!

I've seen some of it, but not all. Not even most. Video content doesn't matter, to me. Neither does an interview or behind the scenes nonsense. All that matters is that he's late, yet again, as he's always been. His budget has ballooned like it always has. He's ambitious to a ridiculous degree, as he's always been.

It's the same modus operandi that we've seen countless times in the past and yet here we are... yet again... with people following him around like he's some kind of dev messiah.

Seriously, three HUNDRED people making this game is laughable enough on its own. And it's how many years in the making now?

I've said it before and I'll say it again: this game will be the next Duke Nukem Forever.

 

[Fallen Kell]

I've seen some of it, but not all. Not even most. Video content doesn't matter, to me. Neither does an interview or behind the scenes nonsense. All that matters is that he's late, yet again, as he's always been. His budget has ballooned like it always has. He's ambitious to a ridiculous degree, as he's always been.

It's the same modus operandi that we've seen countless times in the past and yet here we are... yet again... with people following him around like he's some kind of dev messiah.

Seriously, three HUNDRED people making this game is laughable enough on its own. And it's how many years in the making now?

I've said it before and I'll say it again: this game will be the next Duke Nukem Forever.

Late for what exactly? Was there a release date that came out I am not aware of? Oh you mean it is 2015-2016 already? I didn't know we went to sleep and woke up a year later.

Lets just start talking actual facts.

FACT 1: Average time to develop a PS3/Xbox360 game 2-3 years, with more complex games taking longer. http://askagamedev.tumblr.com/post/67707201036/the-trouble-with-aaa-game-development

FACT 2: Games for PS4 and current/future PC hardware are expected to need 8-10 times the amount of work as PS3/Xbox360 games. http://www.gamespot.com/articles/ca...8-10-times-more-work-to-develop/1100-6417090/

FACT 3: Star Citizen is under the category of current/future PC hardware expectation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7tSjS5vKHk

FACT 4: Average PS3/Xbox360 game average development team sizes were 100-150 people. http://askagamedev.tumblr.com/post/67707201036/the-trouble-with-aaa-game-development

So, given "Fact 3" that Star Citizen is a current/future PC hardware targeted game being designed to push the boundaries of even the PC platform (which is capable of being 3-4x beyond even the current PS4 and Xbox One), and given "Fact 2" that even PS4 games are 8-10x more work than PS3/Xbox360 games, and given "Fact 4" that PS3/Xbox360 games required 100-150 man team working 2-3 years (upwards of 5 years for content heavy games like GTA), it is a simple matter of doing some math. You need ~800-1500 person team working 2-3 years to make the game or you need a ~500-750 person team working 4-6 years.

So I don't know where you have the completely unreasonable expectations that you have for a development process. I can only believe that you are not a developer, have never been a developer, and have never worked with the game industry, which means your expectations are and have always been not of this reality.

Oh, and it has not even been 2 years yet for actual work on the game. The kickstarter for the funding wasn't even done until 11/19/2012 (which is when the money was released to them), and even then, it takes another 2-6 months to even hire people to do the work. Something not included in the "average time to make a game" because those are for game studios that already have a team/staff on hand which are simply given the green light to begin work on a project that was pitched and accepted by a publisher. So we are at about 17-23 months of development at this time.


Oh and for your:

Seriously, three HUNDRED people making this game is laughable enough on its own. And it's how many years in the making now?

Rockstar said they had over 1000 people working on GTA V. FACT 5 http://www.gamespot.com/articles/rockstar-more-than-1000-people-made-gtav/1100-6415330/ And that game took 5 years. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Theft_Auto_V

 

[ThinClient]

I can only believe that you are not a developer, have never been a developer, and have never worked with the game industry, which means your expectations are and have always been not of this reality.

When have I ever claimed to be a developer or something? LOL

Besides, Kell, there are plenty of high content games like STALKER and simulation games by C1 Productions (the Russian crew) or the Crusader King games that have plenty of high content games with very small production teams like 20-30 people. Borderlands series comes to mind. What about Monolith Productions, the company that's done the new Mordor game. That's 100 people employed by that company total. Bohemia, the folks that do ARMA, have 160 employees total.

Rockstar said they had over 1000 people working on GTA V. FACT 5 http://www.gamespot.com/articles/rockstar-more-than-1000-people-made-gtav/1100-6415330/ And that game took 5 years. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Theft_Auto_V

Yeah, and where's the MP for PC they promised a lifetime ago? They have their money so they're in no rush to bother finishing the game. Thanks for proving one of my points beautifully.

 

[Worthington]

Jesus Christ man.. just stop. You hate the game and everything about it. To each their own. But this is getting just down right ridiculous.

I've disliked--- even hated a lot of games that have threads on these forums. I've might have even posted in one (if I reaaaaaaly hated the developer. Brad McQuaid I'm looking at you) if I was really drunk and feeling frisky. But FFS TC.. you post here more than Original Backers.

Can we just add a PS. to the original post that ThinClient hates this game, thinks CR is a slimy thief and a charlatan and then exclude him from further posts?

 

[ThinClient]

Jesus Christ man.. just stop. You hate the game and everything about it. To each their own. But this is getting just down right ridiculous.

I don't hate the game. I hate the hype and the Duke Nukem Forever list of promises that either won't be delivered on or will be delivered poorly. It's a shame that, in this day and age, gamers haven't learned their lessons from all the pre-release, pre-order, and pre-give-us-your-money nonsense leaving them and the rest of the industry shattered by the antics these development houses put gamers through. It's like watching my fellow lemmings jump off the cliff over and over again and it's time to stop it.

 

[ThinClient]

Jesus Christ man.. just stop. You hate the game and everything about it. To each their own. But this is getting just down right ridiculous.

I've disliked--- even hated a lot of games that have threads on these forums. I've might have even posted in one (if I reaaaaaaly hated the developer. Brad McQuaid I'm looking at you) if I was really drunk and feeling frisky. But FFS TC.. you post here more than Original Backers.

Way to exaggerate. This thread is 61 pages and I'm probably less than 1% of this thread.

Can we just add a PS. to the original post that ThinClient hates this game, thinks CR is a slimy thief and a charlatan and then exclude him from further posts?

Why do you hate conversation? If you don't want me to post, then why do you make posts with my name in it, talking about me or to me? If you don't want to be part of a conversation with me, then don't talk about me or to me and you won't get a reply.

This thread is a conversation. The entire point of a forum is to encourage discourse. It's quite a fascist movement to remove someone from the conversation because you don't like the content of their posts.

Kell did it right and I respect him for it. You... well...

 

[datalink7]

I'm going to make a prediction. If I get it right, I win all the Internets.

ThinClient is going to make a post after this one.

:whiste:

 

[mizzou]

There's a problem with the Cult of Roberts and their reliance on Chris's statements: As one dev who worked closely with Roberts put it, 'Roberts believes everything he says, no matter how tenuously connected to reality it may be.' Also considers him to be a narcissistic egomaniac.

In the past, he had people who could rein in his overweening ambition; now, not so. Even with people riding herd on him in the past, Roberts still helmed projects that were way overbudget and years late. (Strike Commander, Freelancer).

Better hope, as another co-worker put it, 'that he's matured some in the last 15 years.'

I LOVED FREELANCER! My friend and I played that game for so long.

 

[Fallen Kell]

What about Monolith Productions, the company that's done the new Mordor game. That's 100 people employed by that company total.

Ummm... you do know that Shadow of Mordor was also worked on by Behaviour Interactive, the LARGEST independent game studio in Canada with over 350 employees right?

And somehow Crusader Kings II has animation, graphics, and physics that is somehow in the same league...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_u31Rf8jxY

vs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-g1AKfMToxY

 

[Warfighter]

thats awesome

 

[BrightCandle]

We are a long way away from their intial estimates for delivering particular modules. I think one of the big reasons for that is the ever increasing scope. Everytime more money rolls in they have to make extra demands on the various parts so that they can do what it is the pledge goal has promised. If you released the arena module without the promised features of the pledged money people would be concerned, so instead they keep updating it and delaying it.

The problem is that with every million rolling in the game and its scope increases, which means its also going to take longer to develop. What started as a small budget remake of a game many people liked has turned into a massive AAA expectation game with a very large geographically split team. Its now a monstrous undertaking and with a lot of expectations to meet. The modules are not surprisingly delayed as they add all the other stuff. I don't think we'll see the game in 2015, it will be 2016 at the earliest.

 

[Worthington]

I think the new projections are playable beta (for the PU) in 2015, with a true release in 2016. Honestly, anything quicker would be a surprise anyways at this point.

 

[Red Storm]

I don't think we'll see the game in 2015, it will be 2016 at the earliest.

And as an original backer I have no problem with that. I want them to take their time.

 

[KeithTalent]

Please stay on topic. If you want to discuss other posters, then either take it to PMs or report the posts that are offending you.

Off Topic posts made after this warning will result in infractions.

Thank you.

Anandtech Administrator
KeithTalent

 

[Markbnj]

We are a long way away from their intial estimates for delivering particular modules. I think one of the big reasons for that is the ever increasing scope. Everytime more money rolls in they have to make extra demands on the various parts so that they can do what it is the pledge goal has promised. If you released the arena module without the promised features of the pledged money people would be concerned, so instead they keep updating it and delaying it.

The problem is that with every million rolling in the game and its scope increases, which means its also going to take longer to develop. What started as a small budget remake of a game many people liked has turned into a massive AAA expectation game with a very large geographically split team. Its now a monstrous undertaking and with a lot of expectations to meet. The modules are not surprisingly delayed as they add all the other stuff. I don't think we'll see the game in 2015, it will be 2016 at the earliest.

This. Overall the model they are following really bothers me. Having to add some exciting new feature to the plan every couple of weeks to get another round of interest and cash going strikes me as dangerous. I'd hate to see this model become the general approach to what's left of PC gaming, but then it's already happening. What percent of the front page of the Steam Store are early access titles most days?

Roberts does have a reputation, and in general these aging rockstars of PC gaming haven't delivered when they have tried for a comeback. If I had bought in to the tune of hundreds of dollars I would also be concerned about the current path the project is on.

 

[Red Storm]

This. Overall the model they are following really bothers me. Having to add some exciting new feature to the plan every couple of weeks to get another round of interest and cash going strikes me as dangerous. I'd hate to see this model become the general approach to what's left of PC gaming, but then it's already happening. What percent of the front page of the Steam Store are early access titles most days?

Roberts does have a reputation, and in general these aging rockstars of PC gaming haven't delivered when they have tried for a comeback. If I had bought in to the tune of hundreds of dollars I would also be concerned about the current path the project is on.

It's fine to feel that way, and anyone else who does can sit back and wait for the final product before buying the game, but don't forget that without the early backers who were willing to put up hundreds (and some even thousands) of dollars there wouldn't even be a Star Citizen game.

 

[rivethead]

We are a long way away from their intial estimates for delivering particular modules. I think one of the big reasons for that is the ever increasing scope. Everytime more money rolls in they have to make extra demands on the various parts so that they can do what it is the pledge goal has promised. If you released the arena module without the promised features of the pledged money people would be concerned, so instead they keep updating it and delaying it.

Completely agree with this. I keep hoping the next stretch goal is: finish the darn game. But instead it'll probably be something like: "a pet space rock for your hangar!"

 

[ThinClient]

Completely agree with this. I keep hoping the next stretch goal is: finish the darn game. But instead it'll probably be something like: "a pet space rock for your hangar!"

That's what it seems to have become, for sure. They seem to be wasting so much time on trying to sucker more people into pledging more money instead of actually finishing the game.

Pet space rock for your hangar. :awe: Lol.

 

[Rakehellion]

I've seen some of it, but not all. Not even most. Video content doesn't matter, to me. Neither does an interview or behind the scenes nonsense. All that matters is that he's late, yet again, as he's always been. His budget has ballooned like it always has. He's ambitious to a ridiculous degree, as he's always been.

It's the same modus operandi that we've seen countless times in the past and yet here we are... yet again... with people following him around like he's some kind of dev messiah.

Seriously, three HUNDRED people making this game is laughable enough on its own. And it's how many years in the making now?

I've said it before and I'll say it again: this game will be the next Duke Nukem Forever.

 

[SunnyD]

This. Overall the model they are following really bothers me. Having to add some exciting new feature to the plan every couple of weeks to get another round of interest and cash going strikes me as dangerous. I'd hate to see this model become the general approach to what's left of PC gaming, but then it's already happening. What percent of the front page of the Steam Store are early access titles most days?

Roberts does have a reputation, and in general these aging rockstars of PC gaming haven't delivered when they have tried for a comeback. If I had bought in to the tune of hundreds of dollars I would also be concerned about the current path the project is on.

And to be fair, I am pleased that for once what amounts to a AAA title doesn't have the constant prodding of a major publisher behind them nagging demanding a half finished title be pushed out the door for the sake of recouping investment dollars.

I want Star Citizen done right the first time thank you very much.

 

[Red Storm]

lol :thumbsup:

 

[Dannar26]

Roberts and co want to keep the hype coming. I can understand that. The finished product is a long way off given conventional development times.

But dang if we don't all develop the biggest case of blue balls in the meantime...

 

[Fallen Kell]

But dang if we don't all develop the biggest case of blue balls in the meantime...

Yeah I hear you on this one. I am glad I can pop in and fly around with some friends now though since the 0.9 release of DFM. It at least gives a taste of things to come.