Star Trek Discovery premieres tonight

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Sonikku

Lifer
Jun 23, 2005
15,752
4,562
136
The editing and pacing seemed jarring with the second episode. The captain gets killed without fanfare, the XO kills the Klingon, gets beamed off and is in front of a tribunal in a matter of seconds. It all felt heavily truncated, in contrast to the Klingon speeches that went on and on and on.

The general consensus is that it's DSC.
No Star Trek starts with ST. There is no STTOS, STVOY, STDS9...

Right. We don't call these things "Star Trek: Deep Space Nine", just "DS9", without the words Star Trek etc.

I for one look forward to getting the D every Sunday.
 

Ketchup

Elite Member
Sep 1, 2002
14,546
238
106
It felt heavily edited to me as well. But to be fair, it seems like more of a setup for what is about to happen, not an intro to the ship and chatacters we will see for the next nine seasons (as was the case with previous star trek series'). And the glimpse into future episodes makes me think that will be the case.
 

fuzzybabybunny

Moderator<br>Digital & Video Cameras
Moderator
Jan 2, 2006
10,455
35
91
Another thing that I didn't get: what happened to the cloaked Klingon ship that rammed the admiral's ship? The admiral self-destructed his ship... so what happened to the Klingon ship afterwards? It was fine? The cutting and dialogue even made it seem like it was T'Kuvma's ship that did the ramming, although his ship had already decloaked much earlier.

I don't know - lots of things didn't make sense. How about beaming *multiple* warheads onto the bodies of the dead Klingons in the tractor beams (they clearly said they had multiple warheads)?

The captain saying she would go on a suicide mission and pilot the worker bee and detonate the warheads herself is dumb. She would need to just pilot the worker bee close enough or set it on the right trajectory (it's space!) and then get beamed off before the warheads go off (the warheads can clearly be remotely detonated).

How about beaming more than just two people onto the Klingon ship? The plan is to capture T'Kuvma alive, right? The Shenzhou has at least NINE transporters (evidenced by the control panel numbering when they're energized into the Klingon ship).

Since when are transporters incapable of transporting something without a life sign?
 

Ketchup

Elite Member
Sep 1, 2002
14,546
238
106
The last thing you mentioned was a problem imo. The captain's body still had the badge in the uniform.

Please don't tell me I'm going to have to start watching this show with the same mentality I watch The Flash (and at least that show gave me a full season of wow).
 

fuzzybabybunny

Moderator<br>Digital & Video Cameras
Moderator
Jan 2, 2006
10,455
35
91
I rewatched the episodes again and I think I can confirm that the cutting was definitely not in chronological order.

The first scene with T'Kuvma telling his crew that they should light the beacon because the Federation's "we come in peace" is a lie was *after* Barnham had killed the previous torchbearer.

Basically:

T'Kuvma probably punched a hole in the beacon, knowing it would draw in a Federation ship. I think he probably planned this all along, desiring to unify all Klingons.

Barnham lands on the uncloaked beacon. (It's called the "Beacon of Kahless" which sends a "sacred call," as said by the Klingon house leader in episode 2 who eventually backs out of the unification attempt.)

Barnham kills the beacon bearer.

A couple hours later she awakens back on the ship and they target weapons on the beacon.

The main ship decloaks.

The "first" scene with T'Kuvma happens at this time. After decloaking they retrieved the floating body of the torch bearer. The scene with the space burial of the killed torchbearer also happens after the decloak, because you can clearly see that the exterior of the ship is visible after the coffin is laid to rest on the outer hull.

T'Kuvma *predicts* that additional Federation ships will arrive, and says that they need to light the beacon to bring all the houses together. Kahless unified the Klingons through war, so he sees this as an opportunity to re-unify the Klingons once again. Or a prophecy, since he mentioned that.

Saru mentions to Barnham that some of the bones surrounding the ship are thousands of years old, while others are only "a couple hours" (that's the one Barnham killed).

The captain has the meeting with the admiral and he says all nearby starfleet ships will be on her position within two hours.

T'Kuvma's ship detects the approaching ships on long range sensors, proving to his crew that his prediction was indeed right all along. The albino gets the mantle of torch bearer and sets off the beacon.

Shortly after the admiral's confirmation that all ships would arrive in two hours, the Shenzhou gets blasted by the light of the beacon since the incoming ships had been detected.

Barnham talks to Sarek with the beacon glowing in the background, who mentions that after the Vulcans had their first ship destroyed, they preemptively shot at every Klingon ship going forward *until* finally one day the Klingons opened dialogue with them after respect had been built and brought about diplomacy.

Barnham tries to commandeer the ship, fails, and all the Klingon ships warp in.

The houses warp in to "heed the sacred call" of the Beacon of Kahless. The houses ask why they have been brought together and T'Kuvma says that their race has become "complacent since the battle with the Federation at Donatu V" and that Klingon purity is a threat to the Federation. He says the Federation wishes to drag the Klingons down "into the muck" where the Humans, Vulcans, Tellarites, and "filthy Andorians" all mix. "There is no honor without unity. There is no home for any of us unless it is shared by all." He says his house welcomes all Klingons, even those discarded by other houses. He only has one binding doctrine: Remain Klingon.

One of the house leaders says that the Shenzhou before them is merely a single speck, and T'Kuvma tells them to "look towards the stars."

And that's when all the Federation ships warp in. And that's when all the houses become unified and attack together.
 
Last edited:

Sonikku

Lifer
Jun 23, 2005
15,752
4,562
136
What was up with the XO?

"We can't kill the unifying Klingon or he'll become a martyr and rallying point for the Klingons."
*Kills him anyway*
 

fuzzybabybunny

Moderator<br>Digital & Video Cameras
Moderator
Jan 2, 2006
10,455
35
91
What was up with the XO?

"We can't kill the unifying Klingon or he'll become a martyr and rallying point for the Klingons."
*Kills him anyway*
Yeah, Burnham really screwed it for everyone. They beamed in with phasers on stun (blue color on the top of the phasers) and she set it to red before shooting T'Kuvma. I can only imagine it was because she thought that he was about to kill the captain, not knowing that the captain was already dead.
 

fuzzybabybunny

Moderator<br>Digital & Video Cameras
Moderator
Jan 2, 2006
10,455
35
91
The last thing you mentioned was a problem imo. The captain's body still had the badge in the uniform.

Please don't tell me I'm going to have to start watching this show with the same mentality I watch The Flash (and at least that show gave me a full season of wow).
Their time in history probably predates the badge-as-transporter-beacon and badge-as-comms-device technology.

On the desert planet and on the Klingon ship they're only using handheld radio devices for verbal communication. A closeup of the badge in the ending credits makes it look like just a hunk of metal.

But to think that a "life sign" (like a heartbeat or brain waves?) can somehow be used as a beacon for a transporter lock is dumb. The most rational beacon would be their radios, which you'll see they always wear on their hips. The captain even has her hand on her radio as she's lying dead on the floor. Also a random blooper - she was stabbed in the heart on her left side but it shows the blade sticking out of her right side when she's on the floor.
 

gorobei

Diamond Member
Jan 7, 2007
3,713
1,067
136
What I did not like: The extended Klingon conversations. 10 minutes straight of "KIN GOK UK ROK IK NUK MUK KOW!!!" started to grate on my nerves. They handled this pretty well in previous movies by starting to speak Klingon and then meshed into English. The whole mind-link thing with Sarak was a bit corny too. On the whole though, the show was very likeable right out of the gate.

the conjecture is someone got too carried away with the dental prosthetics, too big too clumsy such that the actors could barely enunciate. t'kuvma is played by Chris Obi who played Osiris in American Gods, so he is more than capable of delivering a line in any language.

I thought we decided that this show was after the new timeline, in which case the Prime universe that we knew is pretty much gone. So I guess they could leave it open for revelation.

producers have said it is in the original timeline, but they are playing it pretty loose with trying to be loyal to the TOS look. im fine with ditching the velour and 60's concept of the future, but a little more color accents on uniforms wouldnt hurt.

I'm really confused on the Klingon storyline here.

- In the opening scene T'Kuvma wants to light the beacon to bring the warring Klingon factions together, saying that the Federation's line of "we come in peace" is a lie. Uhhh... is there some backstory I'm missing here? In the past, did the Federation say "we come in peace" and then slaughter Klingons or something? What is the source of the Klingons' suspicion towards the Federation?

- Is the above point somehow related to the Vulcan Hello? Vulcans had been shooting at Klingons on sight, "earning [the Klingons'] respect," according to Vulcan logic. But did the Klingons actually take this action by the Vulcans as proof of the lie of "we come in peace," since Vulcans are part of the Federation? Did all those years of Vulcans doing the "Vulcan Hello" actually cause the buildup of Klingon distrust towards the Federation?

- Or is there some time warpage going on here in how they cut the episodes? Is the first scene with T'Kuvma saying "we come in peace is a lie" occurring *after* Michael Burnham had already killed that Klingon in space?

the klingons have supposedly encountered the federation years before, theoretically whoever from starfleet would have said the line as standard policy.

the Vulkan response is essentially the "punch the bully" strat or the "attack another prisoner on your first day in prison. even if you go the "poke the shark in the eye when it attacks" analogy to represent the overwhelming power of the Klingons, it just sends the message that things wont go easy.

the point of the t'kuvma speech is that he/they view contact with the federation and its inclusiveness as a threat to pure Klingon culture and traditions. talks of peace and friendship are effectively the coward's way of conquering whereas true warriors would rather just have a straight up fight. words are ripe with lies but actions(fighting) cant be spun.
 
Reactions: Sonikku

Newbian

Lifer
Aug 24, 2008
24,782
845
126
I'm really confused on the Klingon storyline here.

- In the opening scene T'Kuvma wants to light the beacon to bring the warring Klingon factions together, saying that the Federation's line of "we come in peace" is a lie. Uhhh... is there some backstory I'm missing here? In the past, did the Federation say "we come in peace" and then slaughter Klingons or something? What is the source of the Klingons' suspicion towards the Federation?

Remember the klingons are usually shown as a xenophobic race and fear the "peaceful" ways of the federation and think their way of expansion is a threat to their way of life.

They even mention it multiple times in the various episodes of other versions such as in TNG or such where a few radical ones think of the treaty they have with the federation as making them weak and this was before that ever happened so it would make sense they would feel even more so.
 

Ketchup

Elite Member
Sep 1, 2002
14,546
238
106
...Producers have said it is in the original timeline, but they are playing it pretty loose with trying to be loyal to the TOS look. im fine with ditching the velour and 60's concept of the future, but a little more color accents on uniforms wouldnt hurt....
Thank you for bringing that up. That will surely help events of the show make more sense (but quite possibly less). Although I have no idea WHY they would do that. Are they just saying "Forget what you know about Star Trek when you watch this"?

And thank you for reminding me about the badges fuzzybabybunny. I have watched everything Star Trek except TOS. Watched a couple episode and that's all I can take.
 

Elixer

Lifer
May 7, 2002
10,376
762
126
Please don't tell me I'm going to have to start watching this show with the same mentality I watch The Flash (and at least that show gave me a full season of wow).
That is what CBS does best, dumb it down, since they think then, "everyone can follow", it doesn't have to make sense...
 

Fritzo

Lifer
Jan 3, 2001
41,892
2,135
126
What was up with the XO?

"We can't kill the unifying Klingon or he'll become a martyr and rallying point for the Klingons."
*Kills him anyway*

A line that bugged me:
"We haven't seen the Klingons in 100 years..."

later-

Michael: "The Klingons killed my parents"

How old is she?????
 
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Sonikku

Lifer
Jun 23, 2005
15,752
4,562
136
It would make sense if the Klingons had the cloak back then!

But they didn't. >.>
 

gorobei

Diamond Member
Jan 7, 2007
3,713
1,067
136
A line that bugged me:
"We haven't seen the Klingons in 100 years..."

later-

Michael: "The Klingons killed my parents"

How old is she?????
i read a rumor last year that
she is sarek's secret love child hence his special interest in her. if she is spock's sister then as half vulcan she could live for centuries.
It would make sense if the Klingons had the cloak back then!

But they didn't. >.>
the TOS klingon-romulan alliance only happened because of an accident with the warbird prop model. somebody sat on it and crushed it right before the 2nd appearance of the romulans, so they had to use the klingon battlecruiser model because they didnt have anything else. the writers handwaved it by adding the alliance line.

giving the klingons the cloak didnt happen until later with the movies.
 

PeterScott

Platinum Member
Jul 7, 2017
2,605
1,540
136
I rewatched the episodes again and I think I can confirm that the cutting was definitely not in chronological order.

The first scene with T'Kuvma telling his crew that they should light the beacon because the Federation's "we come in peace" is a lie was *after* Barnham had killed the previous torchbearer.

The torchbearer death is essentially irrelevant. It has nothing to do with the speech about "We come in Peace".

What he means when his calls their fatal greeting: "We come in Peace", a lie, is that it's a path to assimilation and neutering the Klingons. He wants Klingons to be "Remain Klingon". To stand apart(and pure), and to fight the peaceful "lies" that lead to assimilation (fate worse than death).

Death in battle is a better option than peaceful assimilation. This is what he is uniting the Klingons behind.

IMO overall this is off to a good start.

While the premiere episodes had many notable flaws, because IMO it was rushing to establish the war, the motivations of the Klingons, and to establish out protagonist as one of the most hated people in the federation, painted as a mutineer who started the Klingon War.

Did this immediately match the best of TNG/DS9? Of course not, but I think it is off to a better start than any other Trek.

I really want to see what happens next more than when any other Trek series started.

Now that that the rough opening is out of the way, tone will likely shift dramatically, as we watch the war unfold through our disgraced mutineer.
 

RossMAN

Grand Nagus
Feb 24, 2000
78,794
266
116
When BSG aired all it took was the pilot episode and I was hooked. Cylon model 6 was just icing on the cake.

I still haven't seen BSG, Firefly, 24, Dr Who, etc.

Where do I turn in my ATOT card and keys to the executive bathroom?
 

Puffnstuff

Lifer
Mar 9, 2005
16,038
4,800
136
I still haven't seen BSG, Firefly, 24, Dr Who, etc.

Where do I turn in my ATOT card and keys to the executive bathroom?
The second BSG wasn't anything like the original and the Vipers had guns instead of lasers. I like FF but have never watched Dr. Who or 24 for that matter.
 

shortylickens

No Lifer
Jul 15, 2003
82,854
17,365
136
I still haven't seen BSG, Firefly, 24, Dr Who, etc.

Where do I turn in my ATOT card and keys to the executive bathroom?

Firefly is god damn wonderful shit. Since they only made one season you should probably jump on it right away. Afterwards watch the movie Serenity.

Do NOT watch Serenity first!
 

bbhaag

Diamond Member
Jul 2, 2011
6,761
2,138
146
I watched the first episode and thought it was ok. I was flipping back and forth between it and the game though. Once the game was a blow out I turned to the usual channels and watched the second episode. Both episodes were ok although I thought the Klingons speech was a little off but over all it seemed decent for a sci fi show for a new streaming service.

I'll admit I'm not as big of a Star Trek fan as some of you guys. I mean I watched the tv series and enjoyed them. I even enjoyed most of the movies even the new ones but man you guys are taking this to a new level. Talking about time lines and shit. Debating when and how the Klingons got stealth tech and how it's suppose to look old but not too old and alien alliances. There are arguments about abbreviated naming for the show and what is proper and what is not.....woah.

I'll be honest. There is only one meme that describes were this thread has gone.
 

BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
63,390
11,742
136
I still haven't seen BSG, Firefly, 24, Dr Who, etc.

Where do I turn in my ATOT card and keys to the executive bathroom?


Firefly is worth watching if you can. Joss Whedon had all his stuff taken off Netflix a while back, so I don't know where you can find it nowadays.

IMO, 24 is crap, Dr. Who depends on which doctor you watch...and BSG was OK for the first season, then not so much.
 

AdamK47

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
15,318
2,924
126
I watched the first episode and thought it was ok. I was flipping back and forth between it and the game though. Once the game was a blow out I turned to the usual channels and watched the second episode. Both episodes were ok although I thought the Klingons speech was a little off but over all it seemed decent for a sci fi show for a new streaming service.

I'll admit I'm not as big of a Star Trek fan as some of you guys. I mean I watched the tv series and enjoyed them. I even enjoyed most of the movies even the new ones but man you guys are taking this to a new level. Talking about time lines and shit. Debating when and how the Klingons got stealth tech and how it's suppose to look old but not too old and alien alliances. There are arguments about abbreviated naming for the show and what is proper and what is not.....woah.

I'll be honest. There is only one meme that describes were this thread has gone.

This is a computer hardware forum.

Welcome to the forum, nerd.
 
Reactions: cbrunny and ViRGE

RossMAN

Grand Nagus
Feb 24, 2000
78,794
266
116
Firefly is worth watching if you can. Joss Whedon had all his stuff taken off Netflix a while back, so I don't know where you can find it nowadays.

IMO, 24 is crap, Dr. Who depends on which doctor you watch...and BSG was OK for the first season, then not so much.

Add Family Guy to the list. Actually I may have seen 1-2 episodes but wasn't a fan.
 
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