Star Wars: The Force Awakens reviews *SPOILERS*

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Homerboy

Lifer
Mar 1, 2000
30,856
4,974
126
FWIW I completely envision a "Super Duper Director's Cut" which will run 3 hours and include A LOT of missing footage.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,819
29,571
146
FWIW I completely envision a "Super Duper Director's Cut" which will run 3 hours and include A LOT of missing footage.

As long as it "reverse-Lucas-specializes"* the film by digitally inserting the mask back on Kylo Ren's face in scenes where he removes it, I'd be completely down with a 5 hour film of fluff. We really don't need to see that emo hipster from "Girls" face ever again in this flick. Much less here him whine.

*I have just now coined this term, and it refers to a post-production, post-release process in which the editors/producers/directors would approach the task of altering their finalized film by first asking the question "What would George do?", and do the exact opposite.

"But zin!" you may ask yourself, "Lucas has a habit of digitally inserting all sorts of ridiculous effects into shots and either forever ruining the meaning of those shots, or making such an unnecessary alteration that its inclusion baffles everyone!"

Ah! this is true, but in this case, the Lucasism in question is his penchant for taking a supreme badass, a great villain that is (or could be) famously evil and terrifying, and turning him into a complete bitch that frightens no one. This process would restore Ren as a potential legit villain, because he absolutely is not in the current version.
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
48,518
5,340
136
From the official screenplay

Was this part written by Perez Hilton at TMZ?

Kylo Ren Is Horrified By His Actions

The script gives us some internal insight into Kylo Ren after he just killed his father Han Solo. The screenplay notes that “Kylo Ren is somehow WEAKENED by this wicked act,” noting that he is “horrified” and his “SHOCK is broken only when” Chewbacca cries out in agony.
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
48,518
5,340
136
Lucas apologizes for white slavers comment.

http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/arts/star-wars-george-lucas-retro-1.3385799

Anyhoo, for $4 billion I might have expected him to just keep quiet about it all.

You know, to be completely fair...he did spend a huge amount of his life on this, and it's something that has followed him on a probably daily basis ever since. I'd imagine dedicated your career to something like this would be really, really hard to let go of, no matter how much money they paid you, especially when you probably can't even go to the gas station without making a SW comment when they see you.

On the flip side, if I got paid $4 billion dollars, I'd probably be endlessly professing my love for Disney & JJ's work and how amazing the new film is and blah blah blah
 

Skel

Diamond Member
Apr 11, 2001
6,218
661
136
LA times reviewer hates it.

"Admit it: Star Wars: The Force Awakens stinks---and here's why"

I remember when EP1 came out everyone loved it and it was only a few months later when people starting picking at it and the tide turned. I keep wondering if this movie will go through that as well. I liked it enough personally but I also find myself liking it less as time goes by, though I could just be over picking it apart.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,819
29,571
146
Would Jar Jar likely still be alive in this time frame?

I guess we'd need to know the average lifespan of whatever creature it is he was.

I think this is some ~50-60 years after the time of the crappy prequels, and going with him being some sort of amphibious reptile something or other, he could probably have a very long lifespan.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,819
29,571
146
LA times reviewer hates it.

"Admit it: Star Wars: The Force Awakens stinks---and here's why"

I remember when EP1 came out everyone loved it and it was only a few months later when people starting picking at it and the tide turned. I keep wondering if this movie will go through that as well. I liked it enough personally but I also find myself liking it less as time goes by, though I could just be over picking it apart.

Good article and I think it's a fair assessment of what TFA is, and what the audiences have to look forward to with the rest of the releases.

Just consider what Disney has already done with ~ 1/2 dozen Marvel movies: pretty much the same 2+ hours of entertaining claptrap designed to hit base emotions and sell toys and sequels; yet ultimately soulless, brainless, and leaving you completely numb in the end.

But certainly quite entertaining.
 

SphinxnihpS

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2005
8,368
25
91
Good article and I think it's a fair assessment of what TFA is, and what the audiences have to look forward to with the rest of the releases.

Just consider what Disney has already done with ~ 1/2 dozen Marvel movies: pretty much the same 2+ hours of entertaining claptrap designed to hit base emotions and sell toys and sequels; yet ultimately soulless, brainless, and leaving you completely numb in the end.

But certainly quite entertaining.

The acting and direction for this film are so far beyond anything in the prequels,(and even the originals) that this will never (fairly) get destructed like those steaming piles. Sure it's nostalgic, and repeats some theme's, and the overall story isn't perfect by any means, but of all the Star Wars movies, including the first and overly-coveted 2nd, it's far and away the best.
 

Phoenix86

Lifer
May 21, 2003
14,643
9
81
Good article and I think it's a fair assessment of what TFA is, and what the audiences have to look forward to with the rest of the releases.

The writer is full of himself, if you don't like it fine, but half of what he wrote is drivel.

This isn't to say that it's not an enjoyable way to spend a couple of hours. If you're among the millions who plainly have done so, bless your heart.

We enjoyed it because we're stupid. But the author isn't. OK.

The issue, however, is whether "The Force Awakens" even deserves to be considered as a movie, because it's not.

It's not a movie because he says it's not. Wat?

It's the anchoring element of a vast commercial program, painstakingly factory-made for maximal audience appeal, which means maximal inoffensiveness.

Killing Han Solo? Black/white kiss? Seriously, you used the word maximal?

new movie obsequiously replicates the formula of the original -- its set pieces, rhythm, pacing, even dialogue -- almost without advancing the story at all

Yes, it clearly replicates the original formula, by design of course. You may not like that (I did), so far I'm with you. Then he finishes that thought with that whopper of a line. How he can write that TFA didn't advance the story at all? Bitch, please.

...a young woman and a black male. This hardly is a cinematic breakthrough, as other moviemakers who understand the demands of a gender- and culturally diverse audience have been doing it for years.

Damned if you do damned if you don't. Who cares about their race? Just a second ago you said it was doing it's best to be maximal inoffensiveness, now you're dismissing this as something that's been done for years. It has, but it's still a big thing. Race is still a huge issue in today's society. I bet if they were both white he'd be blasting the movie for not having enough non-whites.

Then there's this.

"The Force Awakens," it feels entirely market-oriented, the way the Tide logo gets periodically redesigned to look fresh or the trademark figures of Betty Crocker and the Gerber Foods mom are redrawn to stay "modern."

I just don't even...
 

Matthiasa

Diamond Member
May 4, 2009
5,755
23
81
You may have noticed the stormtroopers actually do alright against anyone not wearing plot armor.
 
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zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,819
29,571
146
The acting and direction for this film are so far beyond anything in the prequels,(and even the originals) that this will never (fairly) get destructed like those steaming piles. Sure it's nostalgic, and repeats some theme's, and the overall story isn't perfect by any means, but of all the Star Wars movies, including the first and overly-coveted 2nd, it's far and away the best.

[anyone who reads through the beginning to the end of this post will see that I actually like this flick, but my criticism is heavily featured up front]

the acting and writing is certainly better overall, for sure (primarily because Mark Hamill never opened his mouth). Directing is on-par with Empire.

You underrate that one, methinks, and I'm not sure why; especially compared to this one. They are all "bad" for their own reasons, especially episode IV, but when judging simply among Star Wars films, I don't see how this one generally surpasses the trilogy, certainly not by far (OK--writing and directing for episode IV; but at least that was the first version of this plot, and it had a real, effing terrifying collection of villains. Peter Cushing, for one, gets far less credit than he deserves.). As bad as episode IV was, there were some goddamn brilliant moments that can't be denied--primarily related to Vader.

None of the baddies in this terrify me, as they all seem like caricatures of what came before. The New Order scenes were also overly-digitized primary-colored palates of cliched Nazi summer camps. In the trilogy, the Emperials commanded a certain gravitas of charm and menace. In TFA, the New Order main "angry-face dude in a funny hat" was simply snarling too hard most of the time, and with no effect on anyone watching. You can't honestly think that this portrayal was better than the combo of Vader-Tarkin or Vader-Piett or Vader-Emperor?

Those guys in the original trilogy were true hardcore Nazi fucks--these New Order fellows with their pre-pubescent sith wannabe were more like Il Duce's version of fascismo and his thugs' preferred public shaming via laxative overdosing. Please...

The nostalgia...I felt it was good at parts and also quite unsettling in a way? How best to explain it. Seeing Han and Chewie at first brought a quick tear, but then it honestly felt a bit tedious--It was like sitting painfully through Indy 4 when I just wanted it all to stop; somethings you can never un-see. Let's not get into the pointless video game scene: monsters on Han's smuggling frigate. Too much PTSD re: the uselessly identical droid factory scene in Attack of the Clones.

Of course, I like seeing Han and Chewie back, but it all just seemed completely out of place, or simply there as motivation for something else (Abram's argument that "Well, we want to give a reason for Han to be here rather than just love story with Leia--so we made him the primary motivation for his son's evilness--He must be killed!"). So, well, there really isn't speculation there: his role was explicitly written into the script as a meatbag prop. That kinda sucks, for Han. A lot of me went into this movie ecstatic to see Han and the rest, but you realize early on that this story is moving on without them, and they are pretty much dragging the whole thing down (I like Oscar Isaacs--but this character looks way too dull so far--all of the brashness and confidence of the real Solo, none of the cynical scoundrel. A true one-note cypher. I hope he is improved-upon).

Finn...again, not enough character here, yet. He just seemed, I dunno...too excited and childlike to me? Is that a thing--is he supposed to be a teenager?

I loved Rey, though. As Luke Skywalker with boobs, she did a fantastic job. The real nostalgia for me, and probably my favorite part of the film--true geeky tearjerker--was when she snapped on Vader/Luke's lightsaber for the first time. That was badass. She is absolutely the best part of the series since the original trilogy.

The lightsaber battles were superb. Far better than anything before (I still like Luke vs Vader in Jedi: the brash rage of it all), but everything about the prequels was a dizzying mess of circus performers obviously playing around in a green-colored gym.

This film is gorgeous, and simply the shots of Rey scavenging on Jakku are worth the price of admission, imo. It is the best part of nostalgia re: comparisons to episode IV. It is not, overall, a digital monstrosity (despite the glaring issues with the New Order), and no quick-cut "elbow shots" ala Nolan or Bay when it comes to action.

As mentioned earlier, I hope this gets a nice DC with better pacing for characters and a bit more background. I don't mind being tossed into the middle of a very active world sometimes--but this one very much feels like a a bunch of semi-connected stuff tossed together as a setup for what follows.

I think Luke really should have been the main focus--ending the way they did, feels more like a desperate attempt to avoid ending on yet another blown-up death star.

I can't say I am truly disappointed with this--history with this franchise being what it is, and especially having already seen an already too-old Ford in a hamfisted version of a beloved franchise, I kinda knew what that would be--but I would have preferred less of a safe Disney vehicle and more of something like when Star Wars actually did challenge conventions, whether or not you want to admit it, with Empire. But anyone knows that would be asking too much.

I'm glad that we get a new director for the next episode. Not because I thought Abrams was bad here (I thought he was solid), but because we get a chance for a new vision. It worked wonders for the original trilogy.
 

Charmonium

Diamond Member
May 15, 2015
9,595
2,958
136
The writer is full of himself, if you don't like it fine, but half of what he wrote is drivel.
I'm not going to defend the article but the guy does make some good points. His main point being that for a company like Disney, what ultimately matters isn't the quality of what they produce, but the bottom line. And that bottom line involves a lot more that just the income the film produces directly. Merchandising is a cash cow that keeps generating income for years to come. The addition of a SW themed area of Disneyland is a perfect example of that.

So if Disney happens to produce something that happens to be good, wonderful. But that isn't their primary purpose. They spent $4B on the rights to the franchise because they knew they'd make that back in the first year. SW is a cultural institution. And things only get that status by appealing to broadest common denominator.

Other than that, he definitely goes overboard in criticizing the movie. The fact that it mainly rehashed the original plot line is a valid point though. Even I noticed that and I've seen the original movies maybe 2 or 3 times. His point is that were it not for the fact that Disney wanted to guarantee success of its first movie, Abrams may have done something a little more original. But there was no way Disney was going to take that chance.
 

JulesMaximus

No Lifer
Jul 3, 2003
74,472
867
126
I saw it today and loved it. I thought the acting was good and the story was interesting. I loved that they stuck with x-wings and tie fighters and I thought they didn't go too crazy with the effects. Plus, unlike the prequels, I actually gave a shit about the characters.
 

Phoenix86

Lifer
May 21, 2003
14,643
9
81
I'm not going to defend the article but the guy does make some good points.

He does, which is why it's only half drivel. I agree with several things he said. There was too much nostalgia, like zin said, that fucking video game scene... Also Ford clearly wasn't into it and it showed. There were issues and it's fair to point them out. The marketing is way overboard, like the Maybelline star wars collection, but that's not the movie's fault. It's not like they used it in the movie.

I just couldn't get past the writer being a massive wise and beautiful woman, I almost bought a fedora after reading it.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,819
29,571
146
He does, which is why it's only half drivel. I agree with several things he said. There was too much nostalgia, like zin said, that fucking video game scene... Also Ford clearly wasn't into it and it showed. There were issues and it's fair to point them out. The marketing is way overboard, like the Maybelline star wars collection, but that's not the movie's fault. It's not like they used it in the movie.

I just couldn't get past the writer being a massive wise and beautiful woman, I almost bought a fedora after reading it.

lol!
 

Udgnim

Diamond Member
Apr 16, 2008
3,664
111
106
LA times reviewer hates it.

"Admit it: Star Wars: The Force Awakens stinks---and here's why"

I remember when EP1 came out everyone loved it and it was only a few months later when people starting picking at it and the tide turned. I keep wondering if this movie will go through that as well. I liked it enough personally but I also find myself liking it less as time goes by, though I could just be over picking it apart.

my impression of the review is that no matter what kind of Star Wars movie was produced, the reviewer was going to rant about Disney and the commercialization of Star Wars
 

zerocool84

Lifer
Nov 11, 2004
36,041
472
126
The movie is just a big disappointment to me. The plot sucks, nothing new, the enemies suck because you don't fear them at all, so many plot holes that make no sense and you basically have to read the comics/books to get any decent understanding of so much in this movie which means that it wasn't a strong movie, for someone as hyped as Captain Phasma, she's a throwaway character and just gives up the huge base so easily. There's just so much more wrong with this movie to say it's good. It was fun for sure but that's about it.
 

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
25,383
1,013
126
The movie is just a big disappointment to me. The plot sucks, nothing new, the enemies suck because you don't fear them at all, so many plot holes that make no sense and you basically have to read the comics/books to get any decent understanding of so much in this movie which means that it wasn't a strong movie, for someone as hyped as Captain Phasma, she's a throwaway character and just gives up the huge base so easily. There's just so much more wrong with this movie to say it's good. It was fun for sure but that's about it.

It's entertainment, not Shakespeare. While the complaints about the relative flimsiness and shallowness of the plot would have merit you still need to remember you're watching a movie meant to evoke the Flash Gordon serials from the 1930s. If master-class script writing is what you're after then why did you go see a Star Wars film when you could have spent your money on something like Anomalisa instead? Sure if Charlie Kaufmann wrote the script for TFA it would have been better, but it also would not have been Star Wars.
 

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,383
912
126
The lightsaber battles were superb. Far better than anything before (I still like Luke vs Vader in Jedi: the brash rage of it all), but everything about the prequels was a dizzying mess of circus performers obviously playing around in a green-colored gym.

I like the Red Letter Media review of Revenge of the Sith where they talk about how almost all non-fighting scenes are either walking, sitting, or both while talking. If they're walking, then the scenes are done at a slow pace because the green screen is only so long. So, they can't walk too far.

Apart from the silly over-choreographed nature of the prequel fights, one thing that always disappointed me was that whenever people fight with lightsabers in the movies, they rarely ever use their force powers. If they do, it's almost always exclusive of the lightsaber. I've never understood why people don't throw a force push or something after swinging or whatever.

but I would have preferred less of a safe Disney vehicle and more of something like when Star Wars actually did challenge conventions, whether or not you want to admit it, with Empire. But anyone knows that would be asking too much.

I think it will be interesting to see what they do with Episode VIII. Episode V was the one the only original trilogy movie that didn't just have a Death Star in it that had to be destroyed. Although, Episode IV had the Death Star as the main focus where Episode VI had the confrontation between Vader and Luke as the main focus with the Death Star as a side story. In a sense, the end of Episode VII was more like Episode VI than IV.

I'm kind of wondering... what would have been a better story plot? Should they have started during Kylo's turn? They probably could've avoided having to focus on a huge terror device (again) if it had more drama to focus on.

EDIT:

It's entertainment, not Shakespeare. While the complaints about the relative flimsiness and shallowness of the plot would have merit you still need to remember you're watching a movie meant to evoke the Flash Gordon serials from the 1930s. If master-class script writing is what you're after then why did you go see a Star Wars film when you could have spent your money on something like Anomalisa instead? Sure if Charlie Kaufmann wrote the script for TFA it would have been better, but it also would not have been Star Wars.

Why do people keep propping up the fact that it's Star Wars as an excuse that it can't be good? I think people had the same thought about another Disney-owned property... Marvel's Captain America: The Winter Soldier. No one thought much about that movie given the lukewarm reception of the original movie, but it ended up surprising most moviegoers.
 
Oct 19, 2000
17,861
4
81
Watched TFA today finally. I'm not a Star Wars geek, have seen the previous 6 either once or twice max, never even touched any other fiction on the universe. I enjoyed TFA pretty well, I'm hoping this releases on 4K bluray next year, it will be on my wish list.

I'm really surprised at some of the comments here, notably about the Kylo Ren character. I thought the role was written and acted very, very well. It seemed obviously explained that he hadn't completed training, I think it comes across well that he's immature and naïve, he has an ego that is based on nothing. It makes sense that he was somewhat easy to take down. He was acting solely on emotion, not skill or intelligence. You can tell this easily throughout the movie.

I also feel it's obvious that most of what you don't understand in this movie is likely to be explained by the story in the next one. Probably not directly, but a lot more stuff will make sense. I really like the set-up of Kylo Ren being left alive and he will probably make the full jump to the dark side now, given that he killed his father and now has some type of redemption to work towards for himself.

Overall, great movie, entertaining. I feel bad for those of you who over-analyze every single detail and forget that it's supposed to be fun.
 
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