Star Wars: The Force Awakens reviews *SPOILERS*

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zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,819
29,571
146
In the whole galaxy only the Skywalkers are force sensitive?

According to the original trilogy, yes--this after Vader murdered them all over a decade or two.

Now in all the novels and comics and cartoons and what made between those movies and now, Luke had started academies that featured not only his and han and lei's kids, but others, so there must be some others that managed to survive; just never trained until Luke arrived.

But like Soviet Russia, all of that material has been officially declared "forbidden!" because Disney says so....so who knows right now. Basically means that you can only base suppositions off of the OT.
 

Sonikku

Lifer
Jun 23, 2005
15,752
4,562
136
Skywalkers aren't the only force sensitives. Jedi like Kanan and OB1 and co were still around, just in hiding.
 

zerocool84

Lifer
Nov 11, 2004
36,041
472
126
I'm pretty sure most people understand that, and technically, there's nothing wrong with presenting incomplete content in a movie to answer it in a later sequel. However, you can't do it too much or present content that's too weak to stand on its own, or else people are going to go away asking more questions than getting answers. In a way, this is kind of the problem that we have with the young adult novels and their final book being split into two movies.

And this is my exact problem with the movie, so much of it is too weak to stand on its own. Everyone knows that this movie was made exclusively to be part of a bigger movie universe but this movie cannot stand on its own at all. There's so much of it that makes no sense or is horribly explained. Even movies that are part of trilogies need to be able to be watched on its own. That just shows how weak the script is in this. That's why there's so websites, forums, etc trying to figure out what the hell is going on with this movie.
 

Skel

Diamond Member
Apr 11, 2001
6,218
661
136
I'm pretty sure most people understand that, and technically, there's nothing wrong with presenting incomplete content in a movie to answer it in a later sequel. However, you can't do it too much or present content that's too weak to stand on its own, or else people are going to go away asking more questions than getting answers. In a way, this is kind of the problem that we have with the young adult novels and their final book being split into two movies.

This is a huge pet peeve of mine. A movie should be able to stand on it's own. It drives me insane the way things are being done now in regards to movies. It rates up there with having to read a website, book or worse watch a show where the creators sit around explaining things to you. If I need to do anything other than watch the movie/show, then it fails in storytelling. There is everything wrong with presenting a incomplete movie with the idea of sorting it out later in sequels. It's like launching a unfinished game and telling me I can get the key parts in DLC later... after I pay even more for them. It's not acceptable in video games, it should never be accepted in other movies.. it's not a fucking TV show.

I feel like I have to keep repeating myself on this point... even if you think the movie's script/writing isn't any worse than one that came before it, why is it unacceptable to expect anything better after over 30 years of more cinema to use as comparisons? Do we look at a Transformers movie and say, "Well, the script isn't any worse than the last one!", and simply give it a pass? Hell no! We tear that shit to shreds!

I do find it amusing how many people are trying to convince themselves they like this movie because it's SW. I've heard more than a few people tell me that the movie had issues, but it's so much better than the prequels or my personal fav, that it was still Star Wars implying that just because it was SW means that it's automagicly good. These are oddly enough all the same people I remember trying to convince themselves that EP1 was good when it came out. It really makes me feel like this movie is going to be judged differently down the road when the SW high wears off.
 

Phoenix86

Lifer
May 21, 2003
14,643
9
81
And keep in mind that the Jedi don't have kids, so passing on force sensitivity ala the Skywalker clan doesn't normally happen. Instead the Jedi (and the Sith) go out and find force-sensitive children.

Right, but that's only because it was part of the Jedi order, not nature. When they do it's more like a dominate gene, likely to happen.
 

dr150

Diamond Member
Sep 18, 2003
6,571
24
81
Worst star wars movie ... ever.

I wouldn't go that far.

I'd say the first original 3 movies easily stand on their own tier.

The rest of the movies are meh.

None in my viewing group were impressed in the least by this movie or swayed by its "purchased" hype reviews.

I expected so much more out of this movie. Most characters weren't fleshed out enough to care and the "been there, done that" action was so rushed to the point you didn't care about the drama occurring......even when Solo died at the hands of his emo son, you were thinking "whatever".

Such a stupid screenplay. I expected more from Kasdan.

The "fun magic" of this series was in the original 3 movies.

That was magic in a bottle and hasn't been replicated by Georgie or anyone else.

...At least we had a great trailer to dream about the possibilities. It basically was the best part of this movie project.
 
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Skel

Diamond Member
Apr 11, 2001
6,218
661
136
Right, but that's only because it was part of the Jedi order, not nature. When they do it's more like a dominate gene, likely to happen.

Did they say that somewhere, or is it something you and other people have put together? I hadn't seen anywhere where they talk about how the Force passes along to anyone, outside of the Skywalkers. Even then it was Luke just saying he, his father and sister had it.
 

Phoenix86

Lifer
May 21, 2003
14,643
9
81
Did they say that somewhere, or is it something you and other people have put together? I hadn't seen anywhere where they talk about how the Force passes along to anyone, outside of the Skywalkers. Even then it was Luke just saying he, his father and sister had it.

Just put it together, it's not some huge leap in logic though. Vader's two kids have the force, Leia's kid has the force. If Rey is Luke's kid (speculation) it follows suit. So the dominate gene aspect holds true.

Other people who's parents aren't force users can "gain" the force, Anakin did. In the prequels they discover people all the time and put them through training at the academy. This is like a recessive gene showing it's colors.
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
48,518
5,340
136
Now in all the novels and comics and cartoons and what made between those movies and now, Luke had started academies that featured not only his and han and lei's kids, but others, so there must be some others that managed to survive; just never trained until Luke arrived.

 

quikah

Diamond Member
Apr 7, 2003
4,086
664
126
In the original, you had Vader taunting Leia with the destruction of Alderan. And then when it happened you had that great scene with Yoda feeling a disturbance in the force.


1. That was Tarkin that threatened Leia. Vader was mostly the scary looking lacky in ANH. He was a pretty underdeveloped character at that point.

2. Obi-wan felt the disturbance, Yoda wasn't in ANH.
 

Skel

Diamond Member
Apr 11, 2001
6,218
661
136
Just put it together, it's not some huge leap in logic though. Vader's two kids have the force, Leia's kid has the force. If Rey is Luke's kid (speculation) it follows suit. So the dominate gene aspect holds true.

Other people who's parents aren't force users can "gain" the force, Anakin did. In the prequels they discover people all the time and put them through training at the academy. This is like a recessive gene showing it's colors.

The only reason I have issues with that thought is the same I had with the midichlorians. It takes the Force and makes it require a physical connector rather than the OG EP4 Star Wars where it was a thing out there that people could connect to.. oddly enough back then I don't think there were even Force Sensitive people, just people that believed vs non-believers like Solo. Odds are you're right, and that's exactly how they'll be. It's the same kind of fan wankery that requires everything to be broken down into the same 'physics' we know rather than just allow the magic to be just magic. To me this kind of thinking is the same stuff that kills other sudo magical things. Look at horror movies and most of those killers are awesome until someone comes along and attempts to explain them in away... I digress.. I asked because I just wanted to make sure I hadn't missed anything. As I said, I'm sure that's the route it'll probably take and it's no worse than Lucas being so obsessed on the Skywalkers that he made almost everyone related to them somehow. That inbreeding really drives me insane..
 

Phoenix86

Lifer
May 21, 2003
14,643
9
81
The only reason I have issues with that thought is the same I had with the midichlorians.

...That inbreeding really drives me insane.

Just saying it's a good way to relate to it, not that it's an actual dominate/recessive gene.

There's no inbreeding in SW, what are you going on about?
 

Fire&Blood

Platinum Member
Jan 13, 2009
2,331
16
81
Saw it, wasn't nearly as bad as I was led to believe though that's my own fault for looking at reddit and neogaf threads before going to see it.
The original cast has successfully set up the new cast who did well IMO.

None of the Star Wars movies were actual "good" movies IMO, the fairy tale element got in the way of that. It's probably one of the reasons Disney wanted it. What it did have is infinite supplies of cool, especially to wide eyed kids seeing it for the first time.

George Lucas struck (4 billions+ worth of) gold with it. He came up with lore that was easy to digest by anyone walking into the theaters. Light sabers, AT-AT's, space ships provided enough cool factor to keep it going forever.

Strong vibes I walked away with after the movie:

Forget canon, Disney will launch a sequel as fast they can shoot them, regardless of what kind and much canon material there actually is. They got Fisher, Hamill and Ford because they needed them but after the next movie everyone is disposable. If Daisy or any other actors fall short of the snow white morale bar that's established now, scripts will be butchered to fit another in their place. I know a lot of people are mad at Lucas for things he did but wait until Disney get's it's death star going. Merchandising won't be content with just one cute droid per movie to sell toys for so the scripts will be changed. If plot twists from popular shows can be pasted into Star Wars, scripts will be changed.
 

Charmonium

Diamond Member
May 15, 2015
9,595
2,958
136
1. That was Tarkin that threatened Leia. Vader was mostly the scary looking lacky in ANH. He was a pretty underdeveloped character at that point.

2. Obi-wan felt the disturbance, Yoda wasn't in ANH.
Thanks. As I said earlier, I've seen the first 6 movies maybe 2 or 3 times and the last time was a couple of years ago, so I'm going to make mistakes like that unless I try to fact check my comments. But thanks for pointing those out. :thumbsup:
 

Sonikku

Lifer
Jun 23, 2005
15,752
4,562
136
Saw it, wasn't nearly as bad as I was led to believe though that's my own fault for looking at reddit and neogaf threads before going to see it.
The original cast has successfully set up the new cast who did well IMO.

None of the Star Wars movies were actual "good" movies IMO, the fairy tale element got in the way of that. It's probably one of the reasons Disney wanted it. What it did have is infinite supplies of cool, especially to wide eyed kids seeing it for the first time.

George Lucas struck (4 billions+ worth of) gold with it. He came up with lore that was easy to digest by anyone walking into the theaters. Light sabers, AT-AT's, space ships provided enough cool factor to keep it going forever.

Strong vibes I walked away with after the movie:

Forget canon, Disney will launch a sequel as fast they can shoot them, regardless of what kind and much canon material there actually is. They got Fisher, Hamill and Ford because they needed them but after the next movie everyone is disposable. If Daisy or any other actors fall short of the snow white morale bar that's established now, scripts will be butchered to fit another in their place. I know a lot of people are mad at Lucas for things he did but wait until Disney get's it's death star going. Merchandising won't be content with just one cute droid per movie to sell toys for so the scripts will be changed. If plot twists from popular shows can be pasted into Star Wars, scripts will be changed.

And people claimed selling to Disney was the best star wars news in years. Disney has the business side of this thing down to a T. It's the quality that is highly suspect. If you ask me, 4 billion was practically giving it away. It will make that back off tickets and bluray and merchandising sales from the first movie alone. Everything else is just gravy.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,819
29,571
146
Skywalkers aren't the only force sensitives. Jedi like Kanan and OB1 and co were still around, just in hiding.

who is Kanan and what does that have to do with the original trilogy? I've seen those hundreds of times, and there was no Kanan; Only the Skywalker twins after Obi Wan and Yoda.

recall that anything written after the trilogies is pointless garbage.
 
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