Star Wars: The Force Awakens reviews *SPOILERS*

[vi edit]

These two points exactly.
Everyone bashes on EP1 as they should -- but I will argue to my grave that EP2 is arguably not only the worst SW movie, but a complete and utter disaster of a movie -- top 10 worst "big" movies of all time. I can still watch EP1 (while gnashing my teeth) but EP2 is just... unbearable. The "love story" is just.... unspeakable.

And the insertion of "Nooooooooo!" in RotJ is as bad as you say.

The one saving grace is that the chapters are broke up in such a way that you can almost perfectly skip any chapter where Anakin and Padme share a scene. It almost makes it watchable. Two cardboard cutouts of the two flopping in the wind could provide a more convincing emotional response than those two actors sharing a scene.

 

[z1ggy]

FWIW I have NO PROBLEM with Adam Driver's casting and the character.
People need to stop throwing around the "Emo" adjective.

I will bet any of you that over the next 2 movies he's going to become a COMPLETE bad ass (with a violent temper). Vader had a temper, but he was not violent.

How much input will JJ have in the next 2 movies? I don't know much about this movie to be honest, but wiki says he is not writing or directing Episode 8 or 9.

I don't get why/how this happens. The director can have such a huge influence on a film.

 

[cronos]

FWIW I have NO PROBLEM with Adam Driver's casting and the character.
People need to stop throwing around the "Emo" adjective.

I will bet any of you that over the next 2 movies he's going to become a COMPLETE bad ass (with a violent temper). Vader had a temper, but he was not violent.

I honestly don't mind the word emo being thrown around, because I don't mind that Kylo Ren is emo. What's so wrong with that?

 

[Homerboy]

How much input will JJ have in the next 2 movies? I don't know much about this movie to be honest, but wiki says he is not writing or directing Episode 8 or 9.

I don't get why/how this happens. The director can have such a huge influence on a film.

He's not even producing. After reading the script, I know he has expressed regret for not directing Episode 8 -- though that could just be salesmanship too and toeing the company line.

 

[Homerboy]

I honestly don't mind the word emo being thrown around, because I don't mind that Kylo Ren is emo. What's so wrong with that?

Nothing I guess. In fact I think he's emotionally unstable the way Anakin should have been.

I just hate people and their use of "emo" - as if showing emotions is the worst thing in the world. I also love how people rip on Adam Driver being ugly etc. Last I checked, A LOT of ladies love him.

That being said I do think they unmasked him too early. He should have only taken the mask off with Han on the bridge. Unless there is some immediate connection between him and Rey that he is aware of and then him removing it at that point would make sense.

I will say that Han should have pleaded with him to remove the mask -- that he wanted to see his son's eyes (echoing Darth saying he wanted to look upon Luke with his own eyes). Then once the mask was removed, have Ren weepy eyed, and juuuuust when you THINK he is about to turn toward the light have Han slip up, say something "wrong" in that classic Han Solo way then -- BLAMMO -- Ren turns full Darkside.

 

[z1ggy]

He's not even producing. After reading the script, I know he has expressed regret for not directing Episode 8 -- though that could just be salesmanship too and toeing the company line.

He is executive producer for episode 8 (according to wiki) and then has no role at all as of yet for episode 9. He might have had some influence on episode 8, but it will be very limited I'm sure. I just don't get how you could have a franchise like that directed by 3 different people, for 3 different films.

 

[blankslate]

I honestly don't mind the word emo being thrown around, because I don't mind that Kylo Ren is emo. What's so wrong with that?

Well....

and also the fact that even in a picture like the one below Lando is cooler

 

[blankslate]

I just don't get how you could have a franchise like that directed by 3 different people, for 3 different films.

Well the prequels were all directed by the same person and they were all GREAT!


....oh wait... :hmm:


At least it looks like they're getting good directors.


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[blankslate]

That being said I do think they unmasked him too early. He should have only taken the mask off with Han on the bridge. Unless there is some immediate connection between him and Rey that he is aware of and then him removing it at that point would make sense.

Probably a crackpot theory though....


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[zerocool84]

He is executive producer for episode 8 (according to wiki) and then has no role at all as of yet for episode 9. He might have had some influence on episode 8, but it will be very limited I'm sure. I just don't get how you could have a franchise like that directed by 3 different people, for 3 different films.

You've never seen the original trilogy? Every one of those was directed by a different person.

 

[z1ggy]

Well the prequels were all directed by the same person and they were all GREAT!


....oh wait... :hmm:


At least it looks like they're getting good directors.


______________

You've never seen the original trilogy? Every one of those was directed by a different person.

And look at the reviews on rotten tomato for ep 1 2 & 3. JJ did a great job with this current film, so why not have him do the rest?

Again, I don't know much about the film making process so I'm sure there's a legit reason for this.

 

[Homerboy]

Probably a crackpot theory though....


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Pretty sure this was the FIRST theory tossed around.

 

[NuclearNed]

Kind of a serious question... maybe this has been asked but I haven't waded through all the SW threads.

Why is Luke's light saber blue instead of green? His blue light saber was lost on Bespin... or was it?

 

[blankslate]

Pretty sure this was the FIRST theory tossed around.

yeah but it could be misdirection... Obi Wan was in a situation where it is remotely possible he had a kid... maybe Rey is Obi's grand Daughter... seems to be the right age for that and Luke trained her. You notice that she was dressed similarly to the youngling padawans seen in other movies when she was dropped off at Jakku.

You hear Obi-Wan as voiced by Ewan McGregor whispering "...these are your first steps." or something very similar as Rey's Bespin Lightsaber induced vision ends.


________________

 

[RampantAndroid]

Kind of a serious question... maybe this has been asked but I haven't waded through all the SW threads.

Why is Luke's light saber blue instead of green? His blue light saber was lost on Bespin... or was it?

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Anakin_Skywalker's_second_lightsaber

The lightsaber, still clutched by Luke Skywalker's hand, had become lodged in one of Cloud City's lower air shafts and eventually was recovered by a maintenance drone. The drone deposited the hand and the lightsaber in Smelting Core D. There, it was discovered by Groggin, the Smelting Core's supervisor.

It's Anakin's lightsaber - thought that was clear, actually?

 

[blankslate]

Why is Luke's light saber blue instead of green? His blue light saber was lost on Bespin... or was it?

My crackpot theory is that it was indeed lost and Maz Kanata is a force sensitive person (albeit not strong enough with the force to be a strong candidate for Jedi Training). Her sensitivity allowed her to find the saber and gave her insight into Rey's destiny.


*e2a*

It's Anakin's lightsaber - thought that was clear, actually?

Anakin's first then Lukes as stated in the movie.



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[Homerboy]

yeah but it could be misdirection... Obi Wan was in a situation where it is remotely possible he had a kid... maybe Rey is Obi's grand Daughter... seems to be the right age for that and Luke trained her. You notice that she was dressed similarly to the youngling padawans seen in other movies when she was dropped off at Jakku.

You hear Obi-Wan as voiced by Ewan McGregor whispering "...these are your first steps." or something very similar as Rey's Bespin Lightsaber induced vision ends.

Right. I said it was the first theory.
The HOT theory right now is that she's a Kenobi.

 

[zinfamous]

Probably a crackpot theory though....


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crackpot theory? I think it is most likely; especially since you could toss boobs on Luke and it would be the same version of him in episode IV.

The flashbacks show a very strong connection to Luke in the past--I'm thinking he erased her memory, like with Revan from the KoTOR video games (not canon anymore, but they are clearly borrowing from a bunch of the various material: Luke's academy, the Solo kid(s?), Ben Solo's mask looks a shitton like Revan's mask, etc)

 

[Phoenix86]

Probably a crackpot theory though....

Popular theory is she is a grand daughter of Padme.

 

[Phoenix86]

like with Revan from the KoTOR video games (not canon anymore, but they are clearly borrowing from a bunch of the various material

Yeah, that's important to note. They aren't throwing away all that material, it's just not canon. IIRC they said they will use elements from it because lots of it is good. They just can't be bothered to sift through all that to make sure the new stuff matches.

 

[zinfamous]

I honestly don't mind the word emo being thrown around, because I don't mind that Kylo Ren is emo. What's so wrong with that?

He's what Anakin should have been in the movies-that-actually-don't-exist-so-stop-trying-to-remind-me. I think the response to him is more about the disgust with that, and it's best to just go an entirely new direction and bring an actual villain into the series throughout.

The first couple of scenes with Ren were rather great, even his first tantrum was perfectly fine as you get the idea he's only now blossoming into his sweet sithness.

I think the face is what does it--perhaps that's unfair but it is a legitimate complaint considering the lore. If he really was well into corruption, he should have some freaky skin discoloration and maybe some face scars from his first hilarious attempts to generate force lightning. As far as I know, those sith lords didn't wear masks because they thought it made them look badass--it's because it was important to hide their identities when starting on teh path and eventually because their faces were so utterly fucked from darkside corruption.

 

[Kaido]

FWIW I have NO PROBLEM with Adam Driver's casting and the character.
People need to stop throwing around the "Emo" adjective.

For me, part of it was the presentation. He was a cool evil guy with a temper & a scary voice...until he took off his helmet in front of Rey. I think that is what ruined his credibility as an evil-doer. They should have saved the de-masking until he met with Han on the catwalk, because then it would have highlighted that he's somebody's son, not just a Bad Scary Dude with no past & a scar-free face.

Second, they wanted to have Han's death at Kylo's hands be his turning point to cement him into the dark side. The effect didn't work, because I didn't think "wow what a bad guy!", I thought "wait, really? The director killed off Han? Dang, bummer ". So the intended effect wasn't achieved for me. I mentioned in an earlier post, I think it would have been MUCH stronger for him to have faced both of his parents, tried to kill Han, but Leia jumped in front and got stabbed instead. Then, Leia having died in Han's arms, Kylo decides well this is it for me, this is my chance to go full Vader, and lops off Han's head, ending with their bodies falling into the abyss and the audience going HOLY CRAP!

But instead, in the interrogation scene, my first thought was "Josh Groban is the bad guy?!" and then "he should be in an Herbal Essence commercial!" Followed by Han's death, where I was more sad & surprised that they killed off his character instead of shocked that Kylo did it & now that makes him a Real Bad Dude. So my knee-jerk reaction is that he was poorly developed as a bad guy because they could have made it soooooooo much more powerful and really established a true villain for the series. But, I also understand that SW is now owned by Disney & they want younger audiences to see it, so they couldn't do something like that. I also understand how they're trying to develop him textbook-wise, but again, the effect didn't work for me. It's really hard not to see him as an emo teenager who throws temper tantrums.

And I think the reveal of the de-masking is what worked for Vader. The whole time, he was in black, face veiled, low voice, doing bad things, and the one glimpse you got of his head was this freaky part in Empire:

It isn't until he defeats the Emperor & has his helmet removed that you see he is a broken, scarred man who now wants to atone for his sins. If they had shown that pale white face at the beginning of the movie, it would have been a joke! So I think that's one of the weak points of the new film...they did need to reveal Kylo's true face, but it could have been done a thousand percent better with a far stronger effect for the audience to mentally put him into "bad guy" territory.

 

[destrekor]

And look at the reviews on rotten tomato for ep 1 2 & 3. JJ did a great job with this current film, so why not have him do the rest?

Again, I don't know much about the film making process so I'm sure there's a legit reason for this.

When he said Original Trilogy, he meant episodes 4, 5, and 6. Each had a different directory. Lucas only had partial writing credits for episodes 5 and 6.

1, 2, and 3 are bad because Lucas had full and outright control, with the final say in everything. It was not that way for the original, older trilogy.

I think it will be best that they take a common story but let different directors and writing teams take the helm for each chapter in the story. Disney and the overarching writers will get a lot of control and that will allow the story to still have a shared feel across the movies.

 

[vi edit]

Yeah for me I went into the moving knowing *NOTHING* about the actors or who they were. So I had *ZERO* basis on what the dude under the mask looked like. Then when they revealed his face I was was sitting back going "no way that dumbo eared grease ball is the son of Han Fucking Solo".

I just wasn't prepared for it not knowing who Adam Driver was or what he looked like.

 

[zinfamous]

These two points exactly.
Everyone bashes on EP1 as they should -- but I will argue to my grave that EP2 is arguably not only the worst SW movie, but a complete and utter disaster of a movie -- top 10 worst "big" movies of all time. I can still watch EP1 (while gnashing my teeth) but EP2 is just... unbearable. The "love story" is just.... unspeakable.

And the insertion of "Nooooooooo!" in RotJ is as bad as you say.

yep. It is easily the worst of all of them. The kid gets a pass in my mind because, well, he's a fucking kid. It's not Jake Lloyd that was the problem--I honestly think he did great playing a little kid--it was the role that was the problem. AoTC was the worst piece of shit since the Matrix 2. I'm not really sure which is worse--probably AoTC because you have to figure it should be really fucking hard to fuck up Star Wars, but then AoTC.

and the Jedi specialized editions v 2 and 3...holy crap it was prequeled. What a shame because it was one of the best before that. And I'm going to ask why people hate the ewoks so much--I get that you don't want anything cute in your Star Wars to sell toys--fair--but I think you're ignoring how badass the ewoks were: primitive stone-age tribe vs the high technology of the occupying empire. And they weren't cute and nice. Don't you remember how they were about to eat goddamn Luke and Han and Chewie and serve their flesh to their new slave mother princess Leia? They decapitate their slain enemies and turn their heads into musical instruments! Those fuckers were hardcore. They are the Taliban!

The Gungans were a disgraceful bastardization of the proud ewoks.