Star Wars: The Force Awakens reviews *SPOILERS*

[zinfamous]

That was one thing that came across as rather awkward writing to me in the movie. During Poe's interrogation, you hear, "I didn't know we had the best pilot in the resistance on board." This is 100% exposition to tell the viewers that he's an awesome pilot. Then, later on, you get the CGI battle where Finn makes says, "Woo! That's one awesome pilot!" This is the second time they make sure to tell the viewer that he's an awesome pilot. At least we got to see something that time, but Finn's remark still came across as really awkward.

I would have been fine with earlier stupid exposition were it not for that line. I threw up a little in my mouth when that happened.

And when I look back on it, I think it was that line that stuck in the back of my mind as a reason for not liking Finn all that much. I mentioned earlier that he seemed like an obnoxious kid for most of the film--and I think it's primarily because of that line.

 

[Phoenix86]

I'm fairly certain we'll see a Rey->jedi knight transition which parallels a Ren->sith lord transition. It will give much more depth to both characters, in the original Vader didn't really change at all until the final fight, whereas Luke obviously progressed a ton.

If he wasn't a one and done bad guy it's likely he'll be around for the trilogy.

 

[zinfamous]

If you want to be like your hero so much that you dress up like him/her while struggling in a competitive environment then you are either 7 years old or you lose your professional credibility.
#ObamaInCarterWhiteface

Remember: he wasn't the only one Snoke was talking to. There were others in The First Order he couldn't command. He even had an argument with one. You know how every disagreement would have ended if this were for real: "Oh yeah? Well, why should we listen to some guy who dresses up in a wanna-be Vader costume every day? What's that? Oh. I don't care if he's your grandpa. Grow up."

Vader mask was clearly a functional piece of necessary equipment for his condition. Other Sith didn't wear masks.

actually, a lot of Sith wore masks and it was very common. I mean, much of this isn't "canon" anymore, but I guess your statement: "Other sith didn't wear masks" would have to equally be based on "not canon anymore"?

Regardless of what has been excised as canon, TFA and the upcoming material is clearly taking tons of content from that now verbotten material. Ren is pretty much wearing Revan's mask--who had no real reason to wear a mask, either--and I think plenty of the other knights in that order or this order had similar masks.

 

[CZroe]

actually, a lot of Sith wore masks and it was very common. I mean, much of this isn't "canon" anymore, but I guess your statement: "Other sith didn't wear masks" would have to equally be based on "not canon anymore"?



Regardless of what has been excised as canon, TFA and the upcoming material is clearly taking tons of content from that now verbotten material. Ren is pretty much wearing Revan's mask--who had no real reason to wear a mask, either--and I think plenty of the other knights in that order or this order had similar masks.

I was talking about in context of the movies. I didn't want to explicitly state that so soon after another post where I explicitly stated that. Neither Palpatine nor Darth Maul nor Dooku nor Grievous wore masks. Vader was the only one. He woke up with it on while it controlled necessary functions for him to survive so, for Vader, it was not a choice based on what other Sith have done. That means Kylo is the ONLY Sith from the movies to wear a mask by choice. If other Sith wear them in the EU for a similar reason (shamelessly blatant Vader knock-off), then it's just as silly and deserves the same criticism.

Someone argues with Vader and he'd force choke them. Heck, something happens Vader doesnt like thats out of your control and he'll force choke you. The only person Vader seemed to respect other than the Emperor was Grand Moff Tarkin. I've been watching Clone Wars and they have a history of respect, so its understandable. It does make one question why that officer thought he could talk shit to Vader in A New Hope...that was dumb. lol

To be fair, wearing helmets and masks seems to be somewhat normal in the SW universe, especially for guys who fight a lot. Granted, Ren probably just wanted to look cool and do an homage to Vader, but I dont think other SW characters would think he was a weenie for wearing a mask and helmet.

Kylo did not force-choke the First Order officer who was arguing with him about methods. I think it's only "normal" due to everyone trying to rip off Vader.

 

[zinfamous]

I was talking about in context of the movies. I didn't want to explicitly state that so soon after another post where I explicitly stated that. Neither Palpatine nor Darth Maul nor Dooku nor Grievous wore masks. Vader was the only one. He woke up with it on while it controlled necessary functions for him to survive so, for Vader, it was not a choice based on what other Sith have done. If other Sith wear them in the EU for a similar reason (shameless Vader knock-off), then it's just as stupid and deserves the same criticism.




Kylo did not force-choke the First Order officer who was arguing with him about methods. I think it's only "normal" due to everyone trying to rip off Vader.

Yeah, I get your point. I find it hard to defend the idea from my own perspective because I absolutely do not support the notion that anyone should need to absorb any exterior content to understand plotting or characters within any individual movie.

That being said, I'm also not sure I agree with your notion that no one takes him seriously because he is wearing a mask, or that he isn't all that serious himself if he is wearing the outfit simply because he wants to be Vader.

I think those folks in the Star Wars world do take him rather seriously, what with all the murder and what not. The Nazis around him seem rather wary of his little tantrums.

However, it would probably be best to have him kill off a few more stormtroopers, or Nazis, for trivial matters, like Vader.

I think the dude is a bit unhinged--partly because of the whole darkside thing, hero worship, immaturity and loss of family, but also because there seems to be no real hierarchy in the current amalgamation of the Sith order. He talks to that creepy golem dude that seems to be holding all the strings, but those scenes suggest an unnumbered sum of additional Sith lords, or would-be lords, vying for the 2nd or the top spot. It seems that Ren is in charge of this New Order group (perhaps there are other powerful, and independent, galaxy-wide fascist orgs competing with them?) or he is simply the liaison/Sith commander for this particular outfit of Nazis in this sector of the galaxy.

Ren seems rather angsty about the woeful incompetence of his particular band of merry Nazis, as well as his interactions with creepy less-than-face guy, as it seems his positioning in the Sith is tenuous, at best.

I guess you could say he is middle management with one asshole boss looking for any excuse to replace him and a team of incompetent Miltons making him look bad.

Honestly, if they shave off his hair and give him some serious scars for the next episode he would be fine. He definitely needs to be more murdery.

 

[Childs]

I was talking about in context of the movies. I didn't want to explicitly state that so soon after another post where I explicitly stated that. Neither Palpatine nor Darth Maul nor Dooku nor Grievous wore masks. Vader was the only one. He woke up with it on while it controlled necessary functions for him to survive so, for Vader, it was not a choice based on what other Sith have done. That means Kylo is the ONLY Sith from the movies to wear a mask by choice. If other Sith wear them in the EU for a similar reason (shamelessly blatant Vader knock-off), then it's just as silly and deserves the same criticism.

I'm not just talking about the sith, but in general people in SW universe wear helmets and masks. The Mandalorians wear helmets all the time. Lando and Leia had helmets for their disguises in RotJ. Imperial guards, Tuskian Raiders, Jawas, etc. Some of it is functional, other times it seems cultural or cosmetic. And really, if it was socially acceptable to wear a helmet or mask I'd to it. :biggrin:

 

[zinfamous]

I'm not just talking about the sith, but in general people in SW universe wear helmets and masks. The Mandalorians wear helmets all the time. Lando and Leia had helmets for their disguises in RotJ. Imperial guards, Tuskian Raiders, Jawas, etc. Some of it is functional, other times it seems cultural or cosmetic. And really, if it was socially acceptable to wear a helmet or mask I'd to it. :biggrin:

I just google-image-searched "dork mask" hoping to post some funny response....and I got a lot of uh, strange images.

Not surprisingly, many of them Star Wars-inspired.

 

[Charmonium]

Since all of the storm troopers wear masks, doesn't it make sense for the people commanding them to wear them? In Star Wars Rebels, which is canon, one of the sith wears a retractable mask. Not sure if the other one also wears a mask. So it looks like it's one of those situations where it's optional. Sort of like police detectives who have uniforms but normally wear plain clothes.

 

[Slew Foot]

Yeah, I assumed the saber was through the middle of his abdomen but, since I wasn't looking directly for the entry point I can't say for sure. If somebody remembers to look for that and is seeing the movie again (or can remember for sure) let us know. And since it doesn't show him landing we have no clue where he ends up. Maybe down a garbage chute to a trash compactor and Captain Phasma ends up rescuing him?

Kind of like at the end of the movie C3PO supposedly has a gold arm (not red) while he's waving at the Falcon. I even read about it prior to seeing the movie my 2nd time and still forgot to look, I was looking directly at BB-8 instead.

hey youre right

upon further review it look like Han gets sliced through right above the belly button and through his chest in the back.

 

[ctark]

Since all of the storm troopers wear masks, doesn't it make sense for the people commanding them to wear them? In Star Wars Rebels, which is canon, one of the sith wears a retractable mask. Not sure if the other one also wears a mask. So it looks like it's one of those situations where it's optional. Sort of like police detectives who have uniforms but normally wear plain clothes.

You dont know what a sith is do you?

 

[Charmonium]

You dont know what a sith is do you?

Oh wait. You're talking about the guys with the horns? I've always equated them with dark side disciples. What do you call the dark side force users? Are they still considered Jedi?

 

[SKORPI0]

Not sure why Kylo Ren has to wear a mask. He doesn't seen to have any need for it like Darth Vaders need to survive. Maybe he uses it to change his emo voice and instill fear to his enemies. And his uncontrolled temper tantrums, acting just like a child not getting his way.

This actor could have been perfect for Kylo Ren, not the one in the movie.
He played Indiana Jones kid , so why not Han Solos?

 

[Aikouka]

I'm not sure why everyone is so hinged on Ren's use of a mask. I wouldn't be surprised if part of the reason why the character has one is to "play the part", but I don't think that's the only viable reason. Ultimately, masks serve a good purpose in battle: to hide your humanity. To a lesser extent, you could even argue that masks can hide your identity, but I'd argue that an identity is a subset of your humanity. For example, if we look at Kylo Ren the first time we see him, he's pretty much this nebulous baddy. Technically, you have no idea if that's even a human, because we have no real identifiers.

I also keep seeing it mentioned that Vader was the only one that used masks before, but what about the clonetroopers and stormtroopers? Their helmets serve the same purpose that I mentioned above. They aren't just human soldiers -- they're the "arms"/weapons of The Empire. You can see their idea of dehumanizing their soldiers in Episode VII by Finn being chastised for removing his helmet, being given a codename, and the conditioning.

Ultimately, think of this kind of like Nolan's Batman movies. Even though it was just a man in the suit, the "idea of Batman" served as more of an ideal.

 

[Phoenix86]

I'm not sure why everyone is so hinged on Ren's use of a mask.

Not sure either. Masks are common, and obviously (reasons aside) his grand father wore one.

 

[GlacierFreeze]

I'm not sure why everyone is so hinged on Ren's use of a mask.

Me neither. Talk about needlessly complaining about something that doesn't really matter much at all. Who cares if other Sith don't wear one? Lol big deal.

If Kylo Ren wants to wear one to look more intimidating and sound like a total badass, then good for him. I know I would.

 

[GlacierFreeze]

Oh wait. You're talking about the guys with the horns? I've always equated them with dark side disciples. What do you call the dark side force users? Are they still considered Jedi?

They'd just be dark side user. Can be one without being a Sith. That's more of an organization/gang/club/etc comprising of dark side users. Like Jedi are to light side users. But that's where the training comes from (master & apprentice) so force users tend to be Sith or Jedi.

 

[Charmonium]

They'd just be dark side user. Can be one without being a Sith. That's more of an organization/gang/club/etc comprising of dark side users. Like Jedi are to light side users. But that's where the training comes from (master & apprentice) so force users tend to be Sith or Jedi.

Right. I remember the training camps from Clone Wars. It's strange that there isn't a name for darkside users apart from equating them with a particular subgroup.

Anyway, speaking of Clone Wars, remember the witches? I'd love to see that worked into the movies. There's so much they could do with that.

 

[Homerboy]

hey youre right

I noticed this the 2nd time I saw it.
Made no sense especially after they made a point to point out his red arm not long before. I hate continuity issues like this. It's just sloppy.

 

[CZroe]

Me neither. Talk about needlessly complaining about something that doesn't really matter much at all. Who cares if other Sith don't wear one? Lol big deal.

If Kylo Ren wants to wear one to look more intimidating and sound like a total badass, then good for him. I know I would.

It's called: more proof that this is a blatant rip-off of A New Hope. Is that an important enough discussion topic for you?

 

[CZroe]

I noticed this the 2nd time I saw it.

Made no sense especially after they made a point to point out his red arm not long before. I hate continuity issues like this. It's just sloppy.

Pretty sure he spoke of how they intended to repair/replace it with the proper gold one and I just assumed that someone did in the elapsed time since we had last seen him.

 

[CZroe]

Not sure either. Masks are common, and obviously (reasons aside) his grand father wore one.

Why would we set reasons aside when they are crucial to forming a point?

 

[zinfamous]

I noticed this the 2nd time I saw it.
Made no sense especially after they made a point to point out his red arm not long before. I hate continuity issues like this. It's just sloppy.

Like Vader's non-post-process metal stage prop (his lightsaber) in A New Hope, as the camera pans away from him stomping on Obi-Wan's empty robe?

IIRC, that wasn't even fixed in the special edition...maybe in the 2nd and 3rd and 4th special editions, but I never saw those--the first Special Edition was bad enough

 

[zinfamous]

Why would we set reasons aside when they are crucial to forming a point?

In this case I think it is your point that is being dismissed more than anything else.

 

[Childs]

Right. I remember the training camps from Clone Wars. It's strange that there isn't a name for darkside users apart from equating them with a particular subgroup.

Anyway, speaking of Clone Wars, remember the witches? I'd love to see that worked into the movies. There's so much they could do with that.

I just saw the episode where with the family of force users that were neither light or dark. I always wondered why there was no third variety that tapped into the dark side when needed, but werent total dicks. The Jedi code is kinda limiting, so you would think there would be either former Jedi or Jedi washouts that still use the force but dont pick sides.

Clone Wars does a good job of showing how much potential there is in SW, yet TFA didnt really show any imagination. Even though it didnt always work out, Lucas at least kept trying to do new things.

 

[CZroe]

They'd just be dark side user. Can be one without being a Sith. That's more of an organization/gang/club/etc comprising of dark side users. Like Jedi are to light side users. But that's where the training comes from (master & apprentice) so force users tend to be Sith or Jedi.

If a Dark Side Force adept has a Sith Lord Master, then they are Sith. If a Light Side Force Adept is tempted by the dark side and has a momentary lapse in judgement, they are still of the Jedi order (Jedi, Padowan, whatever). Haven't seen a Dark Side Force Adept yet who hasn't had a Sith Lord pulling their strings so it's probably safe to call them Sith.

In this case I think it is your point that is being dismissed more than anything else.

Ignoring it doesn't make it go away. Within the context of the movies it makes ZERO sense for him to be wearing that helmet. Real-world context tells us that he is wearing it because the character is a shameless rip-off. If they had explained that he was too much of a noob to rely on his powers and needed custom trooper armor to remain safe then I wouldn't be having this conversation.