Star Wars: The Force Awakens reviews *SPOILERS*

[CZroe]

You are seriously glossing over the flaws of the original trilogy. They were plenty. But we get blurry-eyed thinking back to the good ol' nostalgia. We can even watch the originals today and ignore the flaws even now, because to acknowledge them is to cast doubt on the virgin quality that is the original trilogy.



The story of the entire franchise is far from unique. But it came together in an enjoyable package, and this latest film continues exactly what the original trilogy started. Is it entirely original and flawless? No. Are the originals? No, not even remotely.



People are getting to hung up on the beauty of nostalgia and enjoyed the originals too much to acknowledge the flaws at the time. But now there are new movies, there is an impossibly high bar to overcome, and everything here on out will always pale in comparison to the perfect image we hold in our heads of what used to be.

I don't have rose-colored nostalgia-stained glasses for the originals. I didn't watch the original trilogy until the Special Editions just before the prequels.

I look at the direction, writing, editing, characterization, and cinematography as superior for purely technical reasons, which is why I can see what an abomination the Special Editions were. Yes, they have flaws, but they don't have THESE flaws. Where did you get the idea that I put the original trilogy up on a pedestal as a shining example of perfection?

I loved The Revenant but I can point out how stupid it was to have the viewer focus on a particular canteen and then have it magically teleport due to a continuity error. I can criticize the filmmakers for having a character jump in the freezing cold water to fill it up when there was no reason to. I can criticize them for then having another character fill up the same already-full canteen at great personal discomfort... even though you can see the water spilling out of the top when it is opened. These were sloppy mistakes. They frustrate me because I would not have made them even though I'm not a praised filmmaker.

The Revenant is an excellent movie.
The original Star Wars trilogy is good.
The Force Awakens is an acceptable movie.
The prequel trilogy is insufferably bad.

I hope that clears things up. Like so many other films in the series, there is nothing special about The Force Awakens that makes me want to ever see it again. I didn't regret the ticket price.

Is it clear now? The Force Awakens has some stupid things that are technically wrong and the supernerds go into defensive nerd rages and call you a supernerd when you point it out.

My BIGGEST problems with TFA were discussed much earlier in that thread. Things like the toxins/poison gas line that absolutely should have been removed and the exploding tie fighter distracting from the "soft sand" explanation. Who edited this?!

 

[blankslate]

Came here to post

And I agree; talk about grasping at straws for a joke.

I think one of our members called it though. He said the nerds could not, and would not, be happy with the movie, he was right. Enumerate your displeasure on the internets, you Comic book Guy nerd ragers.

I liked it; it felt like star wars meets Raiders.

That's the thing though it doesn't always apply...

I avidly read comics as an adolescent. Much less so now...

And I have reread the Dune series (minus the EU Dune) twice. and reread some of my favorite books in that series once a couple of years.

I really like this movie. It has faults to be sure but imo they're not as massive as others believe. Especially when you compare the faults to what, imo, is done right in the movie. I have seen it more than twice and I still liked it about 90% as much as I did on the last viewing compared to the first.

John Schnepp is another comic nerd (he's the director of "The Death of Superman Lives: what happened?" about the failed Tim Burton / Nicholas Cage movie) who really liked the movie. I'd argue his comic-book nerd cred is pretty much greater than 90 plus percent of the average movie goer.

Despite the movie's flaws if feels like a Star Wars movie. Some say too much so and yeah I think it is a valid argument. Just not one that I agree with.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YbaliPyihCY

The above video posits the argument that Star Wars movies have been copying elements of the predecessors even in the original trilogy. It's worth a watch imo.



_____________________

 

[zinfamous]

I don't have rose-colored nostalgia-stained glasses for the originals. I didn't watch the original trilogy until the Special Editions just before the prequels.

Well, this explains everything in this thread.

seriously....wtf.

 

[Homerboy]

Well, this explains everything in this thread.

seriously....wtf.

LOL OMG... it quite literally automatically invalidates every argument he was making.

 

[Childs]

Are you saying the first of a trilogy, which is the 7th in a series wouldn't make sense w/o knowing about the first 6?

Huh, imagine that.

Take LotR out of the title and Two Towers wouldn't make sense either.

A better analogy would have been one of the later Harry Potter or Twilight movies, but the difference still would be in those movies you would be up to date if you watched all those movies. In TFA, even if you seen all the previous movies multiple times it still doesnt make sense in some areas. Its more of a new start than a continuation of the existing movies, and as the foundation for a new trilogy its over reliant on sequels.

 

[destrekor]

A better analogy would have been one of the later Harry Potter or Twilight movies, but the difference still would be in those movies you would be up to date if you watched all those movies. In TFA, even if you seen all the previous movies multiple times it still doesnt make sense in some areas. Its more of a new start than a continuation of the existing movies, and as the foundation for a new trilogy its over reliant on sequels.

To keep this post short, if you haven't already, please read my last two posts:
#1399
#1400

In summary: even though this is like starting a new trilogy, consider this: this is a new trilogy that is guaranteed to happen. This isn't a test-the-waters type of deal, nor is it based off a book that was also sort of a test-the-waters. In such instances, the first movie/book is always strongly self-reliant to help ensure that a solid foundation is laid down. Future success is not guaranteed, so this helps net as many followers/fans as possible. But in this instance, it is absolutely guaranteed (outside of, like, a doomsday meteor strike, but... who'd be there to watch? lol) that there will be two more films (at minimum), and it is quite likely they are not at all worried if a few people are upset at this film. They have faith enough people will enjoy what they saw, even if they acknowledge some faults, and will return for the second entry in the new trilogy.

 

[Childs]

In such instances, the first movie/book is always strongly self-reliant to help ensure that a solid foundation is laid down. Future success is not guaranteed, so this helps net as many followers/fans as possible. But in this instance, it is absolutely guaranteed (outside of, like, a doomsday meteor strike, but... who'd be there to watch? lol) that there will be two more films (at minimum), and it is quite likely they are not at all worried if a few people are upset at this film. They have faith enough people will enjoy what they saw, even if they acknowledge some faults, and will return for the second entry in the new trilogy.

I think thats all people in this thread are saying, as a standalone movie it doesnt hold up, not that in the context of 3 movies it wont be fine. In a way this feels more like whats done in TV than movies, but in TV you get a new chapter every week, and new season every year. Its what, like 2 years between movies? Weak sauce! Man, I could die by natural causes before this trilogy finishes and never know who Rey's father is or why she was on that planet! :biggrin: Anyways, it wouldnt have taken much to make the film stand on its own. From what I've heard, a lot of the obfuscation came during editing.

If someone wasnt satisfied with the movie 100% and just grateful it was another SW movie, they probably are also not the type to let it go on a forum. lol Doesnt mean we wont watch the next one.

 

[destrekor]

I think thats all people in this thread are saying, as a standalone movie it doesnt hold up, not that in the context of 3 movies it wont be fine. In a way this feels more like whats done in TV than movies, but in TV you get a new chapter every week, and new season every year. Its what, like 2 years between movies? Weak sauce! Man, I could die by natural causes before this trilogy finishes and never know who Rey's father is or why she was on that planet! :biggrin: Anyways, it wouldnt have taken much to make the film stand on its own. From what I've heard, a lot of the obfuscation came during editing.

If someone wasnt satisfied with the movie 100% and just grateful it was another SW movie, they probably are also not the type to let it go on a forum. lol Doesnt mean we wont watch the next one.

Fair enough.

Yeah it does sound like there was some botched decisions during editing. Curious what the director's cut would be like, and if it would even be truly shown to the public. For example, might they release an edited director's cut, if the studio heads responsible for the cut in the first place had deemed some material better to be introduced in the sequels? Would they, in short, censor JJ from releasing what he had intended to be seen?

 

[CZroe]

Well, this explains everything in this thread.



seriously....wtf.

Yep. It explains that I don't have any particularly strong nostalgia for the original series either and yet I can objectively say that they are better films. Sounds like you are assuming that I have only seen the Special Editions and haven't thoroughly analyzed where those went wrong and what the originals did right. I have more nostalgia for Star Wars The Empire Strikes Back on Atari 2600 VCS because it was the first game I got working on my black and white TV back in 1987... and I HATED that game (loved the jingle it played before it started though).

 

[Phoenix86]

A better analogy would have been one of the later Harry Potter or Twilight movies, but the difference still would be in those movies you would be up to date if you watched all those movies. In TFA, even if you seen all the previous movies multiple times it still doesnt make sense in some areas. Its more of a new start than a continuation of the existing movies, and as the foundation for a new trilogy its over reliant on sequels.

Probably, but it basically applies to anything written with a planned sequel. Loose threads and cliffhangers are everywhere when you know there more writing to be done. Not all movies, or even TV shows, are self-contained by design.

 

[Homerboy]

Fair enough.

Yeah it does sound like there was some botched decisions during editing. Curious what the director's cut would be like, and if it would even be truly shown to the public. For example, might they release an edited director's cut, if the studio heads responsible for the cut in the first place had deemed some material better to be introduced in the sequels? Would they, in short, censor JJ from releasing what he had intended to be seen?

Maz's role in the movie was botched completely. Or at the very least, confusingly handled.

http://collider.com/star-wars-the-force-awakens-deleted-scenes-maz-snowspeeder-rathtar/

It seems like she had a much bigger role to play (and it was fairly evident from the movie itself) but her major parts were cut. But she will be in future installments? I'm really baffled by their handling of her. I can't believe it would be a time issue (as what's another 5-10 mins?) So they must have wanted to change her role, or how it is revealed very late in the game.

 

[CZroe]

LOL OMG... it quite literally automatically invalidates every argument he was making.

Really? Tell me how watching the first movies as a teenager in the '90s changes anything OTHER than explaining that I am not blinded by fanboy nostalgia?

I watched the originals on VHS in response to the Special Editions getting their theatrical releases. I told some SW nut that I had seen bits and pieces when they'd air on TV and knew the major plot points, musical themes, and cultural references but never actually sat down to watch them. I played the games and even read most of Star Wars Shadows of the Empire (liked the N64 game). He basically made me drop everything to watch his collection and I wasn't sorry that I did: collectively, they were good movies. I hadn't fully formed my opinions back then and naively declared that Empire was "the worst one" just because all the do is lose, run, lose, run, and kinda-sorta get away. I tried to get excited for Episode I. Soon after I realized how wrong I was about EP I and Empire.

I didn't dive into the EU and start buying toys and gushing with fans. The only Star Wars related items I own are the video games. I don't claim to know more than the diehard fans but the Internet and a love of film in general has made me pretty informed on the subject. I like to think that my outsider perspective carries MORE weight but, instead, I either get lumped in with the super-fans and dismissed or told that my observations are irrelevant because I'm not fan-enough.

It truly is a damned if you are, damned if you aren't, situation for anyone who doesn't particularly sing the praises of TFA. The people dismissing valid, reasoned, opinions just to excuse liking something are the WORST kinds of fans.

 

[Phoenix86]

Maz's role in the movie was botched completely. Or at the very least, confusingly handled.

http://collider.com/star-wars-the-force-awakens-deleted-scenes-maz-snowspeeder-rathtar/

It seems like she had a much bigger role to play (and it was fairly evident from the movie itself) but her major parts were cut. But she will be in future installments? I'm really baffled by their handling of her. I can't believe it would be a time issue (as what's another 5-10 mins?) So they must have wanted to change her role, or how it is revealed very late in the game.

So self-contained or not aside, they did screw up some things by cutting detail. Maz was clearly one of those. It felt like they rushed the editing.

 

[CZroe]

So self-contained or not aside, they did screw up some things by cutting detail. Maz was clearly one of those. It felt like they rushed the editing.

...and, yet, that stupid go-nowhere part about the mask filter, toxins, and poison gas were left in the movie.

Inexcusably sloppy.

 

[paperfist]

Han and that old guy that Kylo kill are back for the next exiting episode of Star Wars!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etWcqb1-JiI

 

[zerocool84]

Fair enough.

Yeah it does sound like there was some botched decisions during editing. Curious what the director's cut would be like, and if it would even be truly shown to the public. For example, might they release an edited director's cut, if the studio heads responsible for the cut in the first place had deemed some material better to be introduced in the sequels? Would they, in short, censor JJ from releasing what he had intended to be seen?

JJ has already said there won't be a director's cut, just the home video release with some deleted scenes which I'm sure will help us understand some of the many things that need explaining.

 

[JEDI]

JJ has already said there won't be a director's cut, just the home video release with some deleted scenes which I'm sure will help us understand some of the many things that need explaining.

you need double the run time for that.

 

[Fire&Blood]

Star Wars fever reached a new peak in 2015, as the franchise's toy sales reached over $700 million for the year, according to retail research group NPD (via Reuters).

The NPD group released a report showing the Star Wars franchise leading a strong year for the toy industry, which generated $19.4 billion overall and boasted significant marketing growth.

Star Wars toys, like the BB-8 droid and Kylo Ren lightsaber, alone contributed more to the toy industry's sales and growth than Jurassic World, Minions and Avengers combined.

The Star Wars franchise saw an extra surge on Force Friday, which NPD says attributed to their surge to the number one spot. IGN recently listed the ten best Star Wars toys around, which includes one released on last year's Force Friday.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2016/01...nt page)&utm_content=18&utm_campaign=Blogroll

 

[Homerboy]

JJ has already said there won't be a director's cut, just the home video release with some deleted scenes which I'm sure will help us understand some of the many things that need explaining.

I think people mistakenly use "Director's Cut" and "version with deleted scenes" interchangeably by mistake. I don't think anyone is looking for a "Director's Cut" more so just a version with those deleted scenes added back in.

The only reason I can imagine they cut the Maz scene, which seems awfully integral, is that they planned on doing something more with her in EP8. Which could (partially) explain it's recently delay (though I think the delay mostly had to do with cashing in on Christmas again)

 

[destrekor]

I think people mistakenly use "Director's Cut" and "version with deleted scenes" interchangeably by mistake. I don't think anyone is looking for a "Director's Cut" more so just a version with those deleted scenes added back in.

The only reason I can imagine they cut the Maz scene, which seems awfully integral, is that they planned on doing something more with her in EP8. Which could (partially) explain it's recently delay (though I think the delay mostly had to do with cashing in on Christmas again)

It depends on who cut the scenes.

A director's cut could vary well include the integral scenes we miss, and if that were the case, then the studio had exerted control during the final cuts. The Director's Cut may very well be where the cuts were made, and then further edits by the studio. Or, the true director's cut was actually the studio controlling J.J. Abrams, telling him what was good to keep or not.

If it were deleted from VII just because, it may show up in a package with deleted scenes. If they cut it to save the reveal for VIII and changed some of the plot around that, I wouldn't hold my breath on seeing it in any consumer release edition of VII.

Many reasons exist for why those scenes were cut. We may never see the intended Maz reveal scene from VII, because they may have a bigger and better reveal in store for her in VIII, and thus, showing it during VII would change things.

 

[CZroe]

I think people mistakenly use "Director's Cut" and "version with deleted scenes" interchangeably by mistake.

Ridley Scott had nothing to do with the "Director's Cut" of Blade Runner. When he made his own it had to be titled "Final Cut." If the studios creating and releasing these movies don't care about the correct usage of "Director's Cut," why should we?

It also reminds me of F.E.A.R. First Encounter Assault Recon Director's Cut. It came in a different box with a DVD inside of a sleeve with the key stuck on the back and a small origin comic. I think there was also a code for watching a "making of" video on the Internet somewhere, but as I recall it didn't work for me even when the game was less than a year old (I might be confusing it with Prey Collector's Edition's downloadable soundtrack here). Regardless, NONE of the "Directo's Cut" bonus content was added in-game. It was the difference between a bare-bones DVD and the Collector's Edition DVD with the bonus disc that includes extras. We would never call a film with bonus content on a second disc a "directors cut" so I was kinda disappointed. They didn't even upgrade DC buyers to a jewel case! Switching the same content from three discs to one does not constitute a "Director's Cut!"

With a couple examples of the industry abusing the terminology, we all have an excuse to play fast and loose with it. You're welcome.

 

[KeithTalent]

Ugh, finally trying to see this thing on the weekend and the theatre only has two non-3D screening times! So obnoxious. It's like they don't want me to go to the movie.

KT

 

[Homerboy]

Ridley Scott had nothing to do with the "Director's Cut" of Blade Runner. When he made his own it had to be titled "Final Cut." If the studios creating and releasing these movies don't care about the correct usage of "Director's Cut," why should we?

It also reminds me of F.E.A.R. First Encounter Assault Recon Director's Cut. It came in a different box with a DVD inside of a sleeve with the key stuck on the back and a small origin comic. I think there was also a code for watching a "making of" video on the Internet somewhere, but as I recall it didn't work for me even when the game was less than a year old (I might be confusing it with Prey Collector's Edition's downloadable soundtrack here). Regardless, NONE of the "Directo's Cut" bonus content was added in-game. It was the difference between a bare-bones DVD and the Collector's Edition DVD with the bonus disc that includes extras. We would never call a film with bonus content on a second disc a "directors cut" so I was kinda disappointed. They didn't even upgrade DC buyers to a jewel case! Switching the same content from three discs to one does not constitute a "Director's Cut!"

With a couple examples of the industry abusing the terminology, we all have an excuse to play fast and loose with it. You're welcome.

Ok, so let's perpetuate stupidity. Makes total sense to me. I'll stick on the side of speaking intelligently.

 

[Homerboy]

It depends on who cut the scenes.

A director's cut could vary well include the integral scenes we miss, and if that were the case, then the studio had exerted control during the final cuts. The Director's Cut may very well be where the cuts were made, and then further edits by the studio. Or, the true director's cut was actually the studio controlling J.J. Abrams, telling him what was good to keep or not.

If it were deleted from VII just because, it may show up in a package with deleted scenes. If they cut it to save the reveal for VIII and changed some of the plot around that, I wouldn't hold my breath on seeing it in any consumer release edition of VII.

Many reasons exist for why those scenes were cut. We may never see the intended Maz reveal scene from VII, because they may have a bigger and better reveal in store for her in VIII, and thus, showing it during VII would change things.

Yeap. I'm hoping that in some shape way or form we get to see a "Maz reveal" -- if that is getting to see the deleted scenes in an "unabridged" version (or "Director's Cut" if you want to call it that...), it would be great.

But if the scenes were deleted at the last minute because they decided for an even better reveal in Ep8, then that would be great too.

Sadly, I see this footage almost becoming like the filmed Jaba the Hutt scene from EP4. Removed from final version then shoved back in by Lucas in the specialized edition.

I would love to see it at some point in my life regardless of how Maz is/isn't revealed.

 

[CZroe]

Ok, so let's perpetuate stupidity. Makes total sense to me. I'll stick on the side of speaking intelligently.

Good man. :thumbup:

If it wasn't clear, I feel the same way and used these examples because they annoyed me. I'm glad I'm not alone because people usually think I'm overly pedantic and cynical when I complain about such things.

http://youtu.be/CY0Qjx5K53o